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02:33 < maaku> #7230 is locked with conversation limited to contributors only
02:34 < maaku> that's effectively useless given how bitcoin development works...
02:34 < maaku> would recommend closing if it is too contentious to oeprate effectively as a PR
02:40 < jgarzik> maaku, unlocked.  Hopefully vote brigading will not continue.
02:41 < Luke-Jr> it would be nice if there was a good migration path to a decentralised development environment :/
02:43 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, you mean off-github?
02:44 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: well, GitHub could probably easily get a better permissions system; more problematic IMO is the concept of rebasing
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02:44 < Luke-Jr> at least as it works with git, it makes decentralised development basically impossible
02:44 < Luke-Jr> since every rebase conflicts with the previous incarnation
02:45 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, in an ideal world rebasing is evil, and git merge should be used instead
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02:46 < Luke-Jr> O.o
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02:47 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: more or less agree; but I don't know an easy way to get to the point where PRs aren't being rebased anymore
02:47 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, (reconnecting)   You've rediscovered what Linus tells people every week --
02:48 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, rebasing is evil, and git merge should be used instead.   It is more decentralized.
02:48 < Luke-Jr> intereting, didn't know he also held such a position
02:48 < Luke-Jr> git seemed IMO to encourage rebasing because of git-log's defaults
02:48 < jgarzik> git merge is designed for decoupled development, where trees and code and developers (obviously!) move in parallel, at different rates.
02:49 < Luke-Jr> contrast with Bazaar, which basically defaults to --first-parent and treats the merge commit message as a summary of all under it
02:49 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, rebasing screws anyone following a tree
02:50 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, if you rebase, in kernel development, you get flamed by Linus for anti-social (anti-dev) behavior :)
02:50 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: well, you have my vote for not asking people to rebase/squash on PRs ;)
02:50 < Luke-Jr> would be a nice surprise to find out we all hate rebasing, and were just going along with it to fit in with the norm :P
02:51 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, the main problem on the flip side is devs obsessively git-merge'ing upstream into the current branch
02:52 < Luke-Jr> a ready-to-pull-please-merge ACK might work well, provides the merge+pull are timely so they don't overlap with other merge+pulls.
02:53 < Luke-Jr> (or alternatively, committers could do the merge themselves, but that might increase their workload and require more)
02:54 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, Yes, correct -- the developer's job is making a PR "merge ready" -- meaning the committer doesn't have a lot of work do during the merge.   On the developer side, for long-lived PRs, that means "push a periodic git-merge as upstream tree changes dictate, to maintain the low burden on the committer"
02:55 < jgarzik> tl;dr if upstream shit breaks your shit, fix your shit, otherwise leave it
02:55 < Luke-Jr> jgarzik: sure; those can be minimised by only doing it when upstream changes *significantly* or when it's ready for pulling
02:56 < jgarzik> Luke-Jr, right
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03:05 < midnightmagic> the real problem is that a scrupulously maintained merge branch can still diverge.
03:05 < midnightmagic> not all scm have that problem.
03:06 < Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: ?
03:08 < midnightmagic> a git merge doesn't always follow refactoring so well; and certainly many forms of git activity simply can't be merged cleanly at all with the native git merge tools. the base-finding mechs for three-way merge are rudimentary and primitive, if they exist at all, and there's no memory of merge credits for past-considered changes.
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15:48 < GitHub4> [bitcoin] dgenr8 opened pull request #7236: Use createrawtx locktime parm in txn_clone (master...use_rpc_locktime_clone) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7236
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23:05 < GitHub159> [bitcoin] jtimon opened pull request #7238: Blocksize: Some small preparations for a blocksize hardfork (master...6526-6625-remainings-0.13.99) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7238
23:06 < GitHub85> [bitcoin] jtimon closed pull request #6625: BLOCKING: Consensus: Move blocksize and related parameters to consensusparams ...without removing consensus/consensus.h [#6526 alternative] (master...consensus-blocksize-0.12.99) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6625
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