--- Day changed Tue Dec 22 2015
00:00 < dcousens> sipa: not sure of how bitcoind handles it, but, conceptually, in regards to say watching a BIP32 tree, and trying to 'rediscover' it, you'd be able to track whats used based on a deterministic witsig scriptpubkey
00:01 < dcousens> per key
00:01 < dcousens> all good :), just like p2sh
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00:54 < GitHub25> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c24337964f2d...ed095f0407bd
00:54 < GitHub25> bitcoin/master 9b41a5f Suhas Daftuar: Add more tests to p2p-fullblocktest
00:54 < GitHub25> bitcoin/master ed095f0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7226...
00:54 < GitHub191> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7226: Tests: Add more tests to p2p-fullblocktest (master...add-more-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7226
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00:55 < GitHub133> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 new commit to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/301f16ad1ca518c0873cd1bb99a26df36b46838b
00:55 < GitHub133> bitcoin/0.12 301f16a Suhas Daftuar: Add more tests to p2p-fullblocktest...
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01:00 < MarcoFalke> wumpus, 7242 is a loop. You can close it.
01:00 < MarcoFalke> It tries to merge .12 into master. Only running travis each time you commit
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01:27 < GitHub171> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7242: Master: Change the -keypool info text  (master...0.12) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7242
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02:10 < maaku> wumpus: what is the translation schedule for 0.12 ?
02:10 < wumpus> string freeze was dec 1, translations from transifex will be merged up until the last RC
02:12 < maaku> hrm ok. I'm on a project that could hugely benefit from #7192, shame if we have to wait until 0.13 for native translations :(
02:13 < wumpus> sorry for that
02:14 < maaku> yeah understandable
02:14 < wumpus> well it's only 6 months until 0.13 - that's the other side, the advantage of having hard deadlines
02:16 < wumpus> also: first RC for 0.12 is planned for start of 2016, so now changing so many original translation strings would give translators almost no time (and a shitty time, around christmas) to make native translations. Probably resulting in having no native translations for many of the new strings at all
02:17 < wumpus> it'd be possible though to include it for 0.12.1 (so backport 7192 after the 0.12 release)
02:18 < maaku> That would be nice.
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02:32 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: the translation freeze can't be semi-relaxed for an algorithmic change, if I adjust them myself?
02:32 < Luke-Jr> I mean, I assume we're not using different package names within the translations..
02:33 < Luke-Jr> (that is, Bitcoin Kern is every place Bitcoin Core would otherwise have been)
02:34 < Luke-Jr> to be clear, what I'm suggesting means we wouldn't need to wait on translators to make the adjustment
02:36 < Luke-Jr> (I've done it before for the older stable branches)
02:37 < GitHub83> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ed095f0407bd...595f93977c56
02:37 < GitHub83> bitcoin/master 37d271d mb300sd: Rename OP_NOP2 to OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY.
02:37 < GitHub83> bitcoin/master 595f939 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7213...
02:40 < maaku> Luke-Jr: I believe he means that the translators will have to update the translated strings
02:41 < maaku> unless you suggesting s/search/replace for each translation, which probably would work but should be approved by a native speaker...
02:42 < Luke-Jr> maaku: that's what I am suggesting, yes
02:43 < Luke-Jr> it shouldn't need approval from a native speaker, since it produces the same final strings..
02:44 < maaku> Luke-Jr: it is possible that the product name is translated differently in some languages based on context
02:44 < Luke-Jr> maaku: if so, then I would be unable to do the substitutions :p
02:44 < maaku> in which case the approach of 7192 would still work, but the translator would need to reword their translation to use a consistant grammar so the product name can remain the same
02:44 < maaku> no idea if this is actually the case though, and there's a good chance it isn't
02:45 < wumpus> Luke-Jr: that requires a feat of use of the transifex API above my knowledge at leest - and it's not a simple replace, remember that the name of the program has actually been translated in the native translations
02:45 < Luke-Jr> I can't really know without trying, and since trying takes some effort, I'd rather have someone "okay" the concept before I try
02:46 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: it's a replacement for each language
02:46 < wumpus> (and there's no guarantee of consistency there)
02:46 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: /if/ I can get the same output strings cleanly, are you okay with backporting it to 0.12?
02:47 < wumpus> imo there's just too little time left, at least I don't have a lot of time to spend on bitcoin the remainder oft this year
02:47 < Luke-Jr> and if I don't make it in time, we just go ahead without it?
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02:48 < MarcoFalke> Wouldn't 0.12.1 be enough for that?
02:48 < wumpus> but given that you can patch the appropriate messgaes correctly on every translation on transifex (e.g. using the API) I'm not against it
02:48 < Luke-Jr> actually, I keep forgetting I need to do it regardless. so I'll just PR it when it's ready, and if that means it doesn't get merged until 0.12.1, so be it
02:48 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: yeah that's what I said
02:49 < wumpus> <wumpus> it'd be possible though to include it for 0.12.1 (so backport 7192 after the 0.12 release) <- I think we should stick to that
02:51 < wumpus> "<maaku> Luke-Jr: it is possible that the product name is translated differently in some languages based on context"  hah yes - that's what I'm afraid of too, it's also one of the reasons this pull is a great idea, at least the product name will be the same everywhere in the program
02:51 < wumpus> (unless there are languages where it *has* to be translated differently based on the context for correctness... hmm)
02:52 < Luke-Jr> if that were the case, I think we'd already have problems in other areas
02:52 < maaku> right but a competent translator should be able to account for that to make it uniform everywhere
02:52 < Luke-Jr> anyhow, I'll try it and we'll see what I find.
02:52 < wumpus> maaku: yes that makes sense
02:53 < wumpus> (though that's another argument  gainst doing this bot-wise)
02:55 < Luke-Jr> MarcoFalke: btw, re copyright display, note we've changed it from Bitcoin developers to Bitcoin Core developers already once :P
02:55 < wumpus> yes, it's supposed to be Bitcoin Core developers - was it changed back somehow?
02:56 < maaku> I think he meant to highlight me -- I was pointed out that e.g. if I use this patch to change Bitcoin Core -> Liquid, the Liquid documentation would say "Copyright 2009-2015 The Liquid Developers" which is wrong in at least two ways
02:56 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: no, he's complaining that PACKAGE_NAME gets substituted in the rendered places
02:57 < Luke-Jr> maaku: well, just the About dialogue; doing it in docs isn't practical
02:57 < Luke-Jr> maaku: how is it wrong?
02:57 < MarcoFalke> Luke-Jr, not everyone preserves git history and the binaries are often distributed without the source code, so there'd be no way to find out if "MF core developers" actually include the bitcoin core developers as well
02:58 < Luke-Jr> MarcoFalke: how is this a problem?
02:58 < wumpus> I understand MarcoFalke's issue - automatically updating copyrights can be a bit thorny
02:58 < MarcoFalke> Implying "MF" is the author of something he is not actually the author of.
02:59 < wumpus> it makes it easy to steal credit
02:59 < Luke-Jr> it doesn't imply that, though..
02:59 < maaku> Luke-Jr: (1) changing copyright from Bitcoin Core -> Liquid; (2) Should be Blockstream in this context anyway --- "Copyright 2009-2016 The Bitcoin Core Developers; Copyright 2015-2016 Blockstream"
02:59 < wumpus> so maybe leave the copyright alone
02:59 < wumpus> leave it up to a project to set that 
02:59 < Luke-Jr> maaku: from Bitcoin Core *developers* -> Liquid *developers*
03:00 < Luke-Jr> neither is a legal entity
03:00 < wumpus> it doesn't matter if theres one more place to update it
03:00 < maaku> Luke-Jr: ok i suppose that is not strictly speaking wrong
03:00 < maaku> anyway yeah the copyright string probably shouldn't be changed
03:01 < wumpus> having it automatically substituted only makes sense for Bitcoin Core, derivative projects likely want to extend it instead
03:01 < MarcoFalke> Luke-Jr, it implies that, imo. Imagine MF Core is some fancy bitcoin app with the whole gui changed but running bitcoin core in the background. The only copyright notice says "(c) MF core developers". This clearly implies MF core developers are the  only authors of the app.
03:01 < MarcoFalke> Right, it should be extended
03:01 < Luke-Jr> hm
03:01 < MarcoFalke> I think I saw some altcoins doing this correctly
03:02 < Luke-Jr> maybe a separate variable?
03:02 < wumpus> yes make the copyright separate
03:02 < wumpus> it's a good point
03:03 < wumpus> if we had done this naively, the altcoins doing it correctly would probably have been the ones reverting to doing it wrongly
03:06 < Luke-Jr> hrm, this is not trivial to do without breaking the translatability of this
03:06 < wumpus> maybe just skip it for now
03:06 < wumpus> leave the copyright as it
03:07 < wumpus> could do it later, or not, you don't have to iron out all the issues in one pull
03:09 < wumpus> but why is it so hard? e.g. make a function GetCopyright() { return _("Copyright 2009-2016 blabla developers"); }
03:10 < wumpus> use that in the two(?) places where you need it
03:10 < Luke-Jr> four, but that's more or less the approach I'm using
03:10 < Luke-Jr> difficulty is one of them is inside a plist
03:10 < maaku> Luke-Jr: add a %s at the end of the copyright which is the empty string
03:10 < Luke-Jr> maaku: O.o?
03:11 < wumpus> well the plist is another issue
03:11 < wumpus> imo you should leave that for another pull too
03:11 < maaku> and agree with ^
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03:11 < wumpus> just mae your pull what it promises to do - unify the product name where it's *easy to do*
03:11 < maaku> this is fixable, but for now just don't substitute "Bitcoin Core" in the copyright string
03:11 < wumpus> maaku: exactly
03:12 < MarcoFalke> Agree, we can leave that for now
03:12 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: easy to do was part of the first commit; the rest does very non-easy things :P
03:12 < Luke-Jr> what does strprintf do if there's more params than fields?
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03:29 < wumpus> Luke-Jr: raise an exception
03:30 < Luke-Jr> thx
03:30 < wumpus> the script to fetch translations therefore checks if the % interpolations match in the translation and original string before accepting a line
04:01 < warren> wumpus: I suggested parameterizing the name "Bitcoin" everywhere in part to make the overall delta of a  sidechain fork far smaller.
04:02 < warren> maaku: FWIW, Litecoin added a second copyright instead of renaming "Bitcoin developers" as renaming would be disrespectful and probably a copyright violation.
04:03 < maaku> Freicoin did the same
04:03 < maaku> but my point was that the above PR would have automatically done the copyright violating rename
04:05 < Luke-Jr> warren: how a copyright violation?
04:05 < Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli points out on the PR, that we do not independently list LevelDB etc
04:07 < maaku> I don't think it is a violation under MIT
04:07 < maaku> legally, ethically yes
04:07 < jonasschnelli> Right... I think the source codes copyrights are the "important ones", ... the distribution package copyright informations are different. Check the app stores (iOS/Android).
04:07 < MarcoFalke> Luke-Jr, I think it's called copyfraud in english
04:08 < jonasschnelli> It would definitively be unethically (copy the source, rename and change the copyright).
04:08 < maaku> anyway I think the proposed plan is good -- hard-code "The Bitcoin Core Developers" in #7192, and then later PR a bike-sheddable extended copyright notice for non-Bitcoin Core implementations
04:09 < jonasschnelli> And Luke-Jr does not change the string itself,... it makes it just more "accessible" 
04:09 < jonasschnelli> *Luke-Jr s'PR
04:09 < warren> Can we go further and parameterize all variations of the word Bitcoin in various strings that are currently translated?
04:09 < Luke-Jr> maaku: but that leaves the problem unsolved
04:09 < jonasschnelli> ;-)
04:09 < Luke-Jr> warren: -.-
04:10 < warren> Luke-Jr: to make it easier for sidechains and ... XT to rebase =)
04:10 < maaku> warren: I believe this PR does just that
04:10 < maaku> my experience is that there are a few spots you don't want to search-replace however, such as references to the Bitcoin Wiki
04:11 < Luke-Jr> warren: sidechains are Bitcoin
04:11 < maaku> and there's still a few places that need to be parameterized, like bitcoind/bitcoin-cli in the RPC help text
04:11 < MarcoFalke> warren, I think this can be another PR if really desired?
04:12 < Luke-Jr> I don't think we need to spend time making altcoins easier :p
04:12 < jonasschnelli> maaku: i think Luke-Jr's PR does not change the binary names itself (like bitcoin-cli stays bitcoin-cli)
04:13 < warren> Luke-Jr: good point
04:13 < Luke-Jr> the goal here is to make it easier to rename and/or fork Core, but within the scope of Bitcoin
04:14 < Quent> sorry to barge in, but was just wondering whether there is any documentation on the algorithmic optimisations to libsec?
04:14 < Luke-Jr> Quent: I would expect to find it in source code comments
04:14 < Luke-Jr> you might try asking in #secp256k1 also
04:15 < Quent> there is no documentation of the maths etc used in libsec save for the code itself?
04:16 < jonasschnelli> Quent: all written here: https://github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1#implementation-details ? 
04:16 < jonasschnelli> If you compile it with openssl, you can also run a benchmark IIRC
04:18 < maaku> Luke-Jr: we're in an era where multiple forks of bitcoind exist, and indeed are encouraged (outside of consensus code), and sidechains are moving into production
04:18 < maaku> I would also question the "but that makes altcoins easier!" argument -- who cares? -- but I know that would fall on deaf ears
04:19 < Luke-Jr> maaku: I see no use case in parameterising "bitcoins" for forks/sidechains, only altcoins.
04:20 < btcdrak> seems like much of this conversation belongs in #bitcoin-dev
04:21 < warren> MarcoFalke: re "Bump copyright headers to 2015" counsel at Red Hat advised us that it's most proper to have a comma separated list of years instead of a range, worst is replacing it with only the most recent year.
04:22 < warren> In practice the notice doesn't matter all that much and this is fine, just commenting what was practice at a major open source engineering firm.
04:23 < warren> ... and I think we violated that advice a lot and it didn't matter.  
04:26 < Luke-Jr> indeed, the notice only matters insofar as it indicates intent
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04:33 < MarcoFalke> warren, you are right, indeed. The old helper script replaced the copyright year which is wrong. I fixed it to extend the range.
04:34 < Luke-Jr> How's this look? https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/917b1d03cf3afa6939113e2fb0bf89dbfd9db2d7
04:34 < MarcoFalke> If people want a comma separated list, I am fine with that, too. Should I go this way?
04:35 < Luke-Jr> MarcoFalke: that is likely to complicate the code annoyingly. not worth it IMO
04:35 < MarcoFalke> Agree. And it wastes time to go through the diff.
04:35 < MarcoFalke> (in the PR which changes the syntax, that is)
04:43 < jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: mac build fails again: "ImportError: No module named ez_setup"
04:43 < jonasschnelli> https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/pulls/7192/build-osx.log
04:46 < morcos> wangchun: Not sure if this is related to the issue you were describing, but very recently a fix to the way PrioritiseTransaction works was merged: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7062
04:47 < morcos> The theory is you should only have to prioritise each transaction once and then it should remain prioritized in your mempool.  Eviction will consider its new modified fee and sorting for block inclusion will consider its new modified fee for each new CreateNewBlock.  But you should apply a deltaFee not a deltaPriority.
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04:56 < wumpus> <maaku> I would also question the "but that makes altcoins easier!" argument -- who cares? -- but I know that would fall on deaf ears <- yes, who cares, I'd rather have people that disagree on fundamental properties of bitcoin working on altcoins than staying around here to troll
04:58 < wumpus> and unifying repeated strings simply makes sense when it helps enforcing consistency
04:59 < wumpus> I also don't care about comma separated list versus range - range is a fine simplification IMO, the exact time and date of every change can be found in git if that's necessary for legal purposes
05:01 < MarcoFalke> I think comma vs range is not a legal issue. (Range sometimes includes more years than necessary, but you can't claim copyright for something that isn't there in the first place...)
05:02 < jonasschnelli> What about merging https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7153?
05:03 < jonasschnelli> It ensures the 0.12 mempool limiting behavior.
05:03 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: oh, seems I forgot about that one, soryr
05:04 < jonasschnelli> np
05:04 < MarcoFalke> Looks good to merge. Isn't there other rpc test testing mempool stuff?
05:04 < MarcoFalke> Or is this the first one to test mempool limiting?
05:04 < wumpus> adding tests for new behavior is good
05:05 < wumpus> I think so? there are other tests that test basic mempool functionality like accepting transactions, but none about limiting IIRC
05:05 < MarcoFalke> Great, then let's merge!
05:06 < GitHub139> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/595f93977c56...a1c185be546b
05:06 < GitHub139> bitcoin/master fa8c8d7 MarcoFalke: torcontrol debug: Change to a blanket message that covers both cases
05:06 < GitHub139> bitcoin/master fa5769e MarcoFalke: [qt] Fix misleading translation
05:06 < GitHub29> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #7218: [qt] Fix misleading translation (master...MarcoFalke-2015-trivial7) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7218
05:06 < GitHub139> bitcoin/master a1c185b Jonas Schnelli: Merge pull request #7218...
05:07 < GitHub198> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a1c185be546b...97d83739db06
05:07 < GitHub198> bitcoin/master 110ff11 Jonas Schnelli: [Tests] Add mempool_limit.py test
05:07 < GitHub198> bitcoin/master 7632cf6 Jonas Schnelli: [Tests] Refactor some shared functions
05:07 < GitHub198> bitcoin/master 97d8373 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7153...
05:07 < GitHub55> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7153: [Tests] Add mempool_limit.py test (master...2015/12/mempool-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7153
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05:20 < MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli I think it's still the same font on Linux and Windows? You'd need to compare with old screenshots.
05:21 < jonasschnelli> I compared against master. It's the same font size... but on windows, it feels really small (as said, not related to your PR).
05:21 < MarcoFalke> Ok, good to hear it didn't make things worse. :)
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05:35 < Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: fixed gitian issue
06:02 < jonasschnelli> Okay. Recompiling...
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07:33 < jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: works now. Took >50mins to build... any idea why? Did it somehow invalidate the dependency cache?
07:46 < GitHub121> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/301f16ad1ca5...453c56701a14
07:46 < GitHub121> bitcoin/0.12 9ef7c54 Jonas Schnelli: [Tests] Add mempool_limit.py test...
07:46 < GitHub121> bitcoin/0.12 453c567 Wladimir J. van der Laan: tests: Disable Tor interaction...
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07:58 < Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: it shouldn't have, but you wouldn't have gotten that error if your cache was working..
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09:39 < jonasschnelli> Okay. Thanks. Maybe my build system was under heavy load...
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15:46 < wangchun> morcos: I'll try prioritisetransaction, thx
15:48 < phantomcircuit> wangchun, trying to get things into your mempool which are otherwise rejected because of minrelay fee?
15:48 < wangchun> phantomcircuit: yes
15:49 < sipa> i think if you first call prioritizetransaction, and then submit it, it will be accepted
15:49 < wangchun> as blocks are not very full these days, we would like to confirm some free tx
15:49 < phantomcircuit> wangchun, should work, looks like that rpc command calls CTxMempool::PrioritiseTransaction which doesn't check if the transaction is already in the mempool or not
15:51 < phantomcircuit> wangchun, how are you selecting which free transactions to include?
15:51 < wangchun> sort by prioirity of course
15:51 < wangchun> priority
15:52 < phantomcircuit> wangchun, yeah then using the rpc command and prioritizetransaction is the best way to do that
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17:05 < btcdrak> Capacity increase FAQ https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-faq 
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17:12 < zooko> btcdrak: there's no authorship shown on https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-faq
17:13 < zooko> Nor was able to find out how to query for authorship, e.g. ask for a revision history.
17:13 < zooko> ... after a few seconds of trying.
17:13 < btcdrak> zooko: group effort
17:14 < zooko> By what group of people?
17:14 < btcdrak> core devs
17:14 < zooko> I've been wondering which people are in that group.
17:16 < kanzure> random sentiment accumulated from mailing list, forums, known reasoning
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17:31 < aj> btcdrak: that faq's really well written
17:32 < btcdrak> lots of group effort
17:34 < zooko> Yes, well done! I have my criticisms of it, which I've taken to twitter. :-)
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17:45 < instagibbs> aj, glad to hear it. Time not wasted 
17:50 < btcdrak> aj: are those demos ready yet?
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