--- Day changed Thu Jan 21 2016
00:01 < GitHub71> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b92ea98503e6...ae2db67feec2
00:01 < GitHub71> bitcoin/master df6e8e1 Jonas Schnelli: [Qt] rename "amount" to "requested amount" in receive coins table
00:01 < GitHub71> bitcoin/master ae2db67 Jonas Schnelli: Merge #7383: [Qt] rename "amount" to "requested amount" in receive coins table...
00:01 < GitHub34> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #7383: [Qt] rename "amount" to "requested amount" in receive coins table (master...2016/01/qt_req_amount) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7383
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01:10 < wumpus> cfields, something w/ travis is strange on the 0.10 branch, https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/103586898  . fukuchi.org is failing (download for qrencode) but it's not using the fallback - there isn't even an error for bitcoincore.org/dev.bitcoincore.org
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02:13 < GitHub174> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #7386: Add option `-permitrbf` to set transaction replacement policy (master...2016_01_disable_opt_in_rbf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7386
02:19 < btcdrak> wumpus: great
02:22 < CodeShark> I don't get it, wumpus 
02:22 < CodeShark> where's the GetBoolArg?
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03:37 < GitHub109> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ae2db67feec2...6f7841d54558
03:37 < GitHub109> bitcoin/master b768108 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Add option `-permitrbf` to set transaction replacement policy...
03:37 < GitHub109> bitcoin/master 6f7841d Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7386: Add option `-permitrbf` to set transaction replacement policy...
03:37 < GitHub28> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7386: Add option `-permitrbf` to set transaction replacement policy (master...2016_01_disable_opt_in_rbf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7386
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03:48 < GitHub53> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 new commit to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/da83ecd45478367e5388c58fe29a4a8d72f7f1cd
03:48 < GitHub53> bitcoin/0.12 da83ecd Wladimir J. van der Laan: Add option `-permitrbf` to set transaction replacement policy...
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04:20 < GitHub75> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #7387: Get rid of inaccurate ScriptSigArgsExpected (0.12...inaccscriptargs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7387
04:25 < GitHub24> [bitcoin] sipa reopened pull request #6597: Chainparams: Don't check the genesis block (master...chainparams-genesis-no-check-0.12.99) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6597
04:28 < dcousens> how often does bitcoind flush to the .dat files?
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04:34 < jonasschnelli> dcousens: relevant part: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/6f7841d5455832bceeb0b1375baef772099d5595/src/main.cpp#L2228
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04:38 < dcousens> ta
04:40 < dcousens> jonasschnelli: how does that work with things like txindex?
04:40 < dcousens> does the DiskPos sometimes refer to a memory location?
04:41 < dcousens> aka is there a memory map for things not yet written etc?
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04:55 < GitHub37> [bitcoin] sandakersmann opened pull request #7388: Set `-permitrbf` to false (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7388
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06:42 < GitHub21> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7005: Add MAINTAINERS file, a user guide to code subsystems (master...2015_maintainer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7005
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07:21 < GitHub180> [bitcoin] NicolasDorier closed pull request #7190: Performance fix for #6312 (master...sequencenumbers) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7190
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09:01 < BlueMatt> wangchun: regarding opt-in rbf and 0conf....be careful, you've been sold a pack of lies. EVERY company which I'm aware of which currently accepts 0conf has stated publicly that opt-in rbf does not impact them
09:02 < BlueMatt> wangchun: many wallet creators have been asking for it because it makes paying fees much, much easier
09:02 < BlueMatt> wangchun: the ONLY people who are complaining about opt-in rbf are on reddit
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09:28 < BlueMatt> wangchun: for example, blockcypher: https://twitter.com/BlockCypher/status/670334879565922304
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09:35 < instagibbs> BlueMatt, I've been quoting that thread, it'd be a good idea to get more on the record to explictly rebut the FUD
09:38 < BlueMatt> instagibbs: lol, eric vorhees, in a long post talking about why availability of 0conf is a good idea, a guy who is explicitly incredibly pissed off at core for various reasons, said this: "The current Bitcoin implementation, in my opinion, offered a very elegant balance between instant settlement and security. Zero-conf was always an option for merchants or individuals – it came with risk, but it was in many cases manageable, and bri
09:38 < BlueMatt> lliant companies like BlockCypher rose up to make it even more manageable. For those who didn't want any risk, they could decide to wait for one or several confirmations. Neither group infringed on the other – SatoshiDICE was able to take on the risk of zero-conf while other firms decided to wait for blocks. Mutual harmony was enjoyed. "
09:39 < BlueMatt> links is https://shapeshift.io/site/blog/2015/12/01/note-ceo-erik-voorhees-appeal-zero-conf
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10:10 < Tasoshi> isn't this a bit off topic?
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10:31 < cfields> wumpus: i'll take a look
10:32 < haakonn> oops, sorry, my message was meant for a different channel ...
10:34 < warren> wangchun: another example, Bread Wallet's Aaron Voisine thinks opt-in RBF is great.
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11:09 < jonasschnelli> phantomcircuit: re RBF: I think if there are merchants (example third world) that accept 0-confs over a standard wallet (Android Wallet). These guys would suffer a higher chance to get double spended
11:10 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, anybody using BIP70 payment protocol is already at extreme risk accepting unconfirmed transactions
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11:10 < phantomcircuit> because the transaction is relayed directly to the merchant, timing attacks are trivial
11:10 < phantomcircuit> (and very effective)
11:10 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: such people are already trivially attackable using petertodd's rbf tools
11:10 < phantomcircuit> oh AND spv clients have a hard time guessing what fees are required to be included in the next block
11:11 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: more importantly, those wallets can be easily upgraded to fix that issue
11:11 < jonasschnelli> BlueMatt : totally agree with this. It just makes double spending more easy...
11:11 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: my point is it /doesnt/ make double-spending easier
11:11 < jonasschnelli> But maybe RBF is then a sign for them to "move on" and use better tools (then just a wallet as merchant)
11:11 < BlueMatt> it does make double-spending easier against people like blockcypher, but they know this and have already adapted
11:11 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, the situation is such that unconfirmed transactions cannot be safely accepted by anybody unless they have the ability to reverse their side of the transaction after the fact
11:11 < phantomcircuit> jonasschnelli, which actually describes most online merchants
11:11 < BlueMatt> jonasschnelli: and some wallets already are being fixed - they're displaying opt-in rbf as 'pending' instead of 'unconfirmed'
11:12 < BlueMatt> its a much clearer indication
11:12 < BlueMatt> long before the network is even using opt-in rbf wallets can be ready
11:12 < jonasschnelli> Wallets maybe also want to show a "icon" "warning" in case a RBF transaction is amount the 0-conf incommint wtxs
11:13 < BlueMatt> yes, I know at least breadwallet is doing something like that
11:13 < BlueMatt> I dont remeber the actual wording
11:13 < BlueMatt> something like pending or whatever
11:17 < phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, they probably should have already been doing that since the signaling is to set nSequence < MAX_INT
11:17 < phantomcircuit> which has always signaled the transaction was available to be replaced
11:18 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: wow, accepting 0conf in android wallet is very unsafe... it can't even tell if the inputs ever existed to begin with. Send android wallet an unconfiremd 21 million btc payment, and it happily shows it as unconfirmed.
11:18 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: actually it can...bitcoinj traces back all unconfirmed transactions to things in the chain
11:18 < BlueMatt> and validates they are all non-locktime'd, etc
11:18 < sdaftuar> phantomcircuit: if locktime is in the past, then nSequence < MAX_INT seems safe
11:19 < gmaxwell> BlueMatt: Android wallet doesn't. I've tested this myself.
11:19 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: huh? It used to....wtf
11:19 < BlueMatt> sdaftuar: but, this means bitcoinj already has logic to hide non-final txn: it should be re-used for opt-in rbf :)
11:19 < phantomcircuit> sdaftuar, historically nSequence could be used to replace a transaction regardless of locktime
11:19 < phantomcircuit> (unless im misremembering wildly)
11:19 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: i was actually looking at breadwallet's code :)  
11:19 < gmaxwell> (it checks locktime, and hides non-final tx, but will happily show transactions with never-existed inputs)
11:20 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: the problem SPV wallets have is needing to download unconfirmed ancestors i think?
11:20 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ahhh...someone should fix that
11:20 < sdaftuar> voisine opened an issue some time ago that is related to that, i think
11:20 < BlueMatt> sdaftuar: they've always needed to do that
11:20 < BlueMatt> sdaftuar: you can otherwise give them a) an invalid transaction, b) a transaction that is locked for 100 years because of a dependent
11:21 < BlueMatt> hence bitcoinj's behavior
11:21 < BlueMatt> though apparently that part is incomplete
11:21 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: agreed that its necessary, not sure everyone has implemented though
11:21 < sdaftuar> voisine specifically requested a feature to make that easier
11:21 < BlueMatt> indeed, but we arent changing anything wrt that
11:22 < sdaftuar> #7237
11:22 < BlueMatt> we could have a p2p command that does that automatically (ie gives you all deps and merkle paths for them, buttttt)
11:22 < BlueMatt> ahh, heh, ok
11:22 < sdaftuar> i think the patch to that would be pretty small?
11:22 < BlueMatt> yea, it needs to also give merkle paths to the ones in the blocks
11:22 < BlueMatt> sadly, this is probably a bad dos vector, I'd think
11:23 < BlueMatt> maybe even worse than the bloom filtering code itself :(
11:23 < BlueMatt> though not likely
11:24 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: i haven't given any thought to that aspect.  just highlighting the issue so we can decide if it's worth doing, toward the goal of helping wallets do things the best way possible.
11:25 < BlueMatt> sdaftuar: yea, I wouldnt have a huge issue with doing it for clients that both request it and bitcoind instances that have bloom filtering enabled
11:25 < BlueMatt> its probably not hugely worse than the existing dos vectors, sooooo
11:26 < BlueMatt> still, we need reasonable communication like "is bitcoin core eating your hdd? are you seeing a lot of outbound traffic and no inbound? are your bitcoin core ping times a few seconds? disable bloom filtering"
11:26 < BlueMatt> oh, and fix the "mempool" command, but....whatever
11:26 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: ok, i might take a look at doing it.  is there any significant downside to just changing the existing behavior?  i coulnd't find any BIP referencing the reseponse to the mempool command given a bloom filter
11:27 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: and seems like SPV wallets have to check each response anyway...
11:27 < BlueMatt> sdaftuar: i mean if you want to make it easy, there should just be a command like "prove to me this transaction isnt bogus"
11:27 < BlueMatt> which gives you the dep chain and spv proofs that the leaves are included
11:27 < sdaftuar> oh new p2p command
11:28 < BlueMatt> thats how /I/ would do it
11:28 < BlueMatt> but...meh, as you wish :)
11:28 < sdaftuar> maybe that's cleaner, but seems like more work :)
11:28 < BlueMatt> a bit more, but not much, I'd think
11:28 < BlueMatt> and it clearly tells spv client implementors what to do
11:29 < sdaftuar> fair point
11:29 < BlueMatt> others will likely not like this idea since they want to deprecate the bloom filtering stuff entirely
11:29 < BlueMatt> though adding a new command that is like "this is a dos risk, but people who want to serve spv clients should give them this info"
11:30 < sdaftuar> that might also make it easy/easier to rate limit, i'd think
11:30 < BlueMatt> ideally we could make it an rpc and spv wallet implements would connect to their central server and get that info from them, but...whatever
11:30 < BlueMatt> sdaftuar: quite possible, indeed
11:30 < BlueMatt> but, more importantly, if we pull out the bloom filtering shit and replace it with something sane that serves a similar purpose, we dont have to touch this rpc :)
11:31 < BlueMatt> ehh, msg
11:31 < gmaxwell> getting dependency chains is incompatible with pruning-- or even without running with a huge high overhead index, in any case. 
11:31 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you dont actually need -txindex right now, though
11:32 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: its a huge dos risk either way :)
11:32 < BlueMatt> gmaxwell: (we know when a utxo was created, so we can load that block, you just cant prune)
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12:37 < instagibbs> Sorry if this is pure C++ q: I'm adding a .h/.cpp file pair for additional rpc stuff, and I can't get the linker to link and external library I'm calling inside that file(undefined references to libevent functions). I figure I'm missing something super obvious but don't really understand largish automake files. 
12:38 < instagibbs> I figure I need to link -levent somewhere in addition to bitcoind/bitcoin-cli in the Makefile.am, but noob so.
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12:44 < treehug88> instagibbs look at configure.ac
12:44 < GitHub142> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #7374: [init] Add transaction fee warnings (master...Mf1601-init-fee-warn) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7374
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12:47 < cfields> wangchun: looks like i forgot to ping you here and you're probably gone now. but: ping!
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15:22 < gmaxwell> oh we're still doing this:
15:22 < gmaxwell> 2016-01-21 23:21:56 ERROR: Read: Failed to open file /home/gmaxwell/.bitcoin/banlist.dat
15:22 < gmaxwell> 2016-01-21 23:21:56 Invalid or missing banlist.dat; recreating
15:22 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yup
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15:31 < Ylbam> a segwit core dev would be welcome on core slack to answer a few questions
15:31 < Ylbam> https://bitcoincore.slack.com/archives/general/p1453418779022985
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15:42 < randy-waterhouse> slack core require registration with slack?
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15:45 < Ylbam> slack.bitcoincore.org I think
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15:46 < randy-waterhouse> and their servers are US-based I suppose?
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15:48 < randy-waterhouse> nm, I jsut wandered into their thicket of user policies ... looks like an avoidable minefield
15:51 < Ylbam> we are sending people here for more technical answers
15:51 < Ylbam> or there #segwit-dev
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20:34 < Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.mail.trojita.general/1315 fyi
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21:57 < GitHub166> [bitcoin] Kefkius opened pull request #7390: RPC: decodescript - Only show P2SH address for P2SH scripts (master...rpc-decodescript) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7390
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23:55 < jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: thanks... Will pass that to MarcoFalke.
23:55 < jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.mail.trojita.general/1315
23:58 < MarcoFalke> thx jonas. But I don't have the time to change anything before 0.12. (And we shouldn't because of testing)
23:58 < MarcoFalke> I don't want to make the Windows user unhappy after they upgrade to 0.12
23:58 < MarcoFalke> either
23:59 < MarcoFalke> Do you have any short term plan for 0.12?
23:59 < jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke:... yes. Agree. We should add your quickfix for 0.12.
23:59  * jonasschnelli is checking the PR