--- Day changed Fri Feb 05 2016 00:28 -!- adam3us [~Adium@unaffiliated/adam3us] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39 -!- adam3us [~Adium@unaffiliated/adam3us] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:44 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:52 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 00:53 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-38-39.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:13 < michagogo> cfields: one of them does 64-bit and then 32, the other is the opposite. That's mildly annoying when you're trying to gauge progress from tailing the log. 01:16 < michagogo> 5:51:57 ie i think winxp and maybe even win7 will flag if you use sha256 across the board <-- Um, do we actually still support XP? 01:17 < wumpus> we should add the "system requirement for buildling" back in the build-unix.md, it's gone a few days and we have someone complaining you can't compile with 512MB of memory https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7471 01:17 < wumpus> the corrent wording suggest that tweaking gcc will make it possible to compile with any amount of memory 01:18 < wumpus> michagogo: we've never officially dropped support for winxp, so I suppose so. I wouldn't recommend using it but as long as it is easy to support too, why not. 70% of PCs on the world probably still runs it :p 01:19 < wumpus> (while those tweaks are already needed to compile *with 1GB* of memory) 01:20 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:26 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-38-39.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:27 < Luke-Jr> wumpus: Microsoft doesn't support XP AFAIK? 01:28 < Luke-Jr> in an ideal world, unmaintained systems would be banned from the internet :P 01:36 -!- randy-waterhouse [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/randy-waterhouse] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:38 < wumpus> the BOFH in me tends to agree, but realizing that'd probably mean banning all poor countries from the internet I'm not sure that's an ideal world :P 01:38 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 01:41 < wumpus> and although Microsoft did offer a free upgrade to windows 10, that doesn't apply to XP 01:49 < GitHub8> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #7472: rpc: Add WWW-Authenticate header to 401 response (master...2016_02_www_authenticate) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7472 01:54 < wumpus> ... also barring hardware which wouldn't have drivers for W10 anyway so the upgrade would be bricking 01:55 < wumpus> in an ideal world, they would just use some free OS 01:56 < Luke-Jr> :P 02:00 < GitHub69> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/152a8216cc7b...e7eeb945cd2d 02:00 < GitHub69> bitcoin/master 0830552 Matt: Fix spelling: misbeha{b,v}ing 02:00 < GitHub69> bitcoin/master e7eeb94 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7469: net.h fix spelling: misbeha{b,v}ing... 02:00 < GitHub59> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7469: net.h fix spelling: misbeha{b,v}ing (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7469 02:18 < GitHub71> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7eeb945cd2d...cf63d5c710ed 02:18 < GitHub71> bitcoin/master 7689041 mrbandrews: [rpc-tests] Change solve() to use rehash 02:18 < GitHub71> bitcoin/master cf63d5c Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7468: [rpc-tests] Change solve() to use rehash... 02:18 < GitHub176> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7468: [rpc-tests] Change solve() to use rehash (master...ba-fix-rehash) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7468 02:20 < GitHub53> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cf63d5c710ed...e7ea5db0c190 02:20 < GitHub53> bitcoin/master f3757a0 Jorge Timón: Consensus: Decouple pow.cpp from util.h 02:20 < GitHub53> bitcoin/master e7ea5db Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7459: Consensus: Decouple pow.o from util.o... 02:20 < GitHub169> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7459: Consensus: Decouple pow.o from util.o (master...consensus-pow-from-util-0.12.99) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7459 02:21 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 02:30 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:00 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:09 -!- grubles1 [~grubles@185.92.221.103] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 03:11 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:11 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:11 -!- bad_duck [~arthur@area51.powaaa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12 -!- zxzzt [~prod@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12 -!- 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[~frankenmi@174-25-38-39.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@rrcs-198-179-71-70.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:18 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:18 -!- fuirbob [d9403abe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.64.58.190] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 04:21 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:29 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:35 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@173-31-39-168.client.mchsi.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 05:58 -!- p15 [~p15@75.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07 < GitHub16> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 new commit to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/996c27d1d916d41ed06fa31af9c25b8ae0be139a 06:07 < GitHub16> bitcoin/0.12 996c27d Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: add PR authors to release notes... 06:14 -!- adnn [adnn@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-lgjnrhgixywolebt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:1800:8e00:8f4c:c385] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:35 -!- fuirbob [d9403abe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.64.58.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:38 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@173-31-39-168.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21 -!- Rebroad [~RE@cpc76150-clif11-2-0-cust623.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@f055053218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:22 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@f055053218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:22 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:24 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:38 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:47 -!- loltastic [~loltastic@99-8-65-117.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 07:51 -!- loltastic [~loltastic@99-8-65-117.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:03 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:05 -!- zibbo_ [~zibbo@static.173.197.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:05 -!- instagibbs_ [~instagibb@pool-100-15-134-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:07 -!- sotisoti_ [~sotisoti@jomify.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:07 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:08 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@91-159-8-128.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:10 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:14 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: zibbo, BashCo, Eliel_, instagibbs, sotisoti 08:15 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-14-172-248.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:17 -!- instagibbs_ is now known as instagibbs 08:24 -!- grubles1 is now known as grubles 08:24 -!- grubles [~grubles@185.92.221.103] has quit [Changing host] 08:24 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:59 < cfields> michagogo: ah 08:59 < cfields> michagogo: switching them around would be reasonable then, sure 09:00 < cfields> Luke-Jr: no, sorry. Didn't apply for new certs this time around, to avoid complications. Just replaced our old one with a new one without updating any info, in order to avoid the verification process 09:09 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:13 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:53 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 09:54 -!- Omega-Xi [~omega-xi@dsl.omega-xi.com] has quit [Quit: Simplicity lies within chaos] 09:55 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:01 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:06 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:12 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:15 -!- danielsocials [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30 < Luke-Jr> cfields: oh, so it'll be BCF cert still? O.o 10:32 < cfields> Luke-Jr: yes. Otherwise, I was afraid it would trigger a verification of "Bitcoin Core", which of course doesn't exist as a corporate entity. That could've made the process drag on for a while, so I took the easy route this time and just fixed the sha256 issue, leaving all else the same 10:33 < Luke-Jr> i c 11:12 -!- raedah [~raedah@172.56.38.72] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:26 < morcos> gmaxwell: can i pick your brain about a couple of things? i'm trying to think of some longer term projects to work on and had some questions 11:27 < morcos> #1 It appears 300M for a mempool is much more ample than I was guessing. I think its quite unlikely we'd need a disk based mempool anytime soon. It appears to be quite rare that we have more than few M's backed up with any fee 11:27 < morcos> And the rest of the mempool is just shoved full of 1 sat/kB txs 11:28 < morcos> Along those lines, I wonder if there is any cost to all these 1 sat/B (sorry B, not kB) txs bouncing around 11:28 < morcos> we had made the calculation that the slow decay of rolling min rate combined with the limit on free relay would be enough to keep these low 11:29 < morcos> but i'm not sure we fully though through all the system effects, espeically the fact that some communication happens trying to inv and send these same txs over and over 11:29 < morcos> Is there anybody working on measuring all of this bandwidth utilaztion to know whether its worth worrying about? 11:30 < gmaxwell> INV traffic on a node is already most of the bandwidth. 11:30 < morcos> What do we think about adding ban points of some kind for bad P2P behavior? 11:30 < gmaxwell> (at least when it has a full compliment of peers) 11:30 < morcos> IS there any reason we don't send the fee rate with the inv for txs 11:30 < morcos> ? 11:30 < gmaxwell> we do have the reject filter so that we'll not waste time rerequesting things. 11:30 < morcos> The reject filter gets reset after a block though right? 11:31 < gmaxwell> Just not in the protocol though it would be a good idea... or even better: being able to tell out peers not to even bother INVing transactions below some threshold towards us (because we'll not fetch them) 11:32 < gmaxwell> since INVs are already so much of the bandwidth it's more important to suppress them than to suppress sending the transaction. 11:33 < morcos> Also I was thinking about this idea of extending fee estimation for longer time horizons, but its not clear to me if the idea that there is usage that doesn't care about immediate confirmation is theoretical or actually exists 11:33 < gmaxwell> (the reason for this is that the inv is 38 bytes, but you send or recieve it from _every_ peer, while the transaction is transfered less) 11:33 < morcos> Yes, I think it could be reasonable to send a min threshold which expires after some time, and you coudl update it more frequently than that timeout 11:34 < morcos> You could even assume that each of your peers minimums decays 11:35 < gmaxwell> There are absolute use cases for non-immediate confirmation; but the UI and human factors (people worrying that it'll never go through) probably diminish them a lot. 11:35 < morcos> This of course all ties into free/priority txs. I.e. Are we ok getting rid of FREE txs regardless of making a decision about priority. 11:36 < gmaxwell> that question is probably 80% of why a fee filter wasn't done two years ago. Of course one could also say "send me things with priority over X" ... but then thats more functionality to specify. 11:36 < gmaxwell> and implement. 11:36 < gmaxwell> BBIAB. 11:37 -!- treehug88 [~textual@static-108-30-103-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:44 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:56 * gmaxwell back 11:57 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-14-172-248.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01 < morcos> gmaxwell: i think the simple version of just sending a feefilter threshold every X minutes and having it expire after Y minutes would work pretty well 12:01 < morcos> and wouldn't really change the free tx use case 12:02 < morcos> that is once your mempool is no longer limited and you're accepting free txs you'd just send a 0 12:02 < morcos> free rate limiting i suppose still might trigger excess invs... 12:02 < phantomcircuit> morcos, or you set the fee filter to match the mempool minimum fee amount 12:03 < morcos> phantomcircuit: yes thats what i meant 12:03 < phantomcircuit> that would actually significantly reduce bandwidth 12:05 < gmaxwell> morcos: is there any reason for it to expire? 12:05 < gmaxwell> (if you want it gone you can just send a filter of 0) 12:05 < morcos> gmaxwell: well the way mempool limiting works is your effective min decays 12:06 < morcos> so for instance imagine the case where there is a temporary huge fee boost and everyones mempool b/c limited to some relatively significant fee 12:06 < morcos> your own acceptance decays 12:06 < morcos> accentance threshold that is 12:06 < morcos> so you'd want your peers to decay your filter for you or just periodically update them 12:06 < gmaxwell> right, so after a block that cleared things back, you'd end up sending a new value. ... but sending a filter update message once per block isn't a ton of overhead. 12:07 < gmaxwell> The amount of decay is highly dependant on local state and policy. 12:07 < morcos> yeah i was thinking like phantomcircuit said you just watch your own threshold, and when it has deviated signficantly then you send an update 12:07 < morcos> but yeah maybe the expiry isn't needed 12:08 < morcos> just seemed safer 12:09 < gmaxwell> My intuition about the expiration is that it's another periodic counter to manage, and you have some racing around the expiration. (meaning that e.g. banning peers that send you things you don't want might be less sane) 12:09 < gmaxwell> One question I have: feerate or ancestor feerate? 12:10 < morcos> it has to be the same as what governs admittance to your mempool 12:10 < gmaxwell> I guess without a way to relay a group as a group that question isn't so useful. 12:10 < morcos> which is feerate 12:10 < morcos> if that changes then yeah we'd need a way to change 12:11 < gmaxwell> well perhaps the way we'd change that is with a package relay. And then it's just something that offers a package, and the filter just applies to the feerate of the package. 12:11 < morcos> right, i think that would work 12:13 < Tasoshi> Sorry to interupt, but I suppose I must ask if I may. Our community is so terribly divided gmaxwell, is there a way to return to the cheerful days? 12:14 < morcos> sending packages gets dangerous though, b/c of the asymmetry between ancestor and descendant branching. but thats a problem for the future. need CPFP mining first. 12:15 < Tasoshi> The unthinkable is happening with r/bitcoin being censored/banned, that affects all for it breaches all principles 12:15 < Tasoshi> hard forks are being considered 12:15 < Tasoshi> these are difficult times for bitcoin 12:15 < morcos> Tasoshi: Thats a good coverstion, but sometimes we need to step away from it for our sanity. This channel is not the place. This is where we try to get work done. 12:15 < Tasoshi> it shouldnt be so 12:16 < Tasoshi> morcos gmaxwell is not accesible anywhere as far as I am aware 12:16 < Tasoshi> I understand of course it is difficult for him too 12:16 < morcos> Not on this channel please 12:16 < Tasoshi> but I thought to ask, if I may 12:17 < Tasoshi> are we to burn the world? 12:19 < Tasoshi> how can bitcoin operate when r/bitcoin is banned and censored, on what basis would anyone find this community welcoming at all 12:19 < Tasoshi> I know you want to focus on the code 12:22 -!- gmaxwell [greg@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 12:22 < Tasoshi> there you are... 12:23 -!- adnn [~adnn@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:26 -!- adnn_ [adnn@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-umoggmulvnecdlgc] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:27 -!- adnn [~adnn@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35 -!- Tasoshi [~Tasoshi@unaffiliated/tasoshi] has 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morcos: CPFP mining has been live on the network since 2012 (or 2011) 15:37 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:05 -!- nOgAnOo [noganoo@unaffiliated/noganoo] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:08 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 16:10 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-38-39.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:19 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:24 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:32 -!- gevs [~greg@unaffiliated/gevs] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:41 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:45 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@rrcs-23-246-73-68.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:00 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13 -!- justanotheruser 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