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02:02 < GitHub160> [bitcoin] paveljanik opened pull request #8472: Do not shadow LOCK's criticalblock variable for LOCK inside LOCK (master...20160806_Wshadow_LOCK) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8472
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08:03 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: sipa: I guess the current bip151 rekeying has no forward secrecy. It's hash(old-sym-key). What about hkdf(ecdh_secret, old_syn_key) instead?
08:05 < jonasschnelli> S/old_syn_key/old_sym_key
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11:14 < GitHub87> [bitcoin] clickkarog opened pull request #8473: 0 9 (master...0.9) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8473
11:16 < GitHub185> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #8473: 0 9 (master...0.9) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8473
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11:24 < GitHub83> [bitcoin] clickkarog opened pull request #8474: 0 9 (master...0.9) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8474
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11:30 < GitHub74> [bitcoin] clickkarog opened pull request #8475: 0 10 (master...0.10) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8475
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11:33 < GitHub107> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8475: 0 10 (master...0.10) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8475
11:34 < GitHub58> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8474: 0 9 (master...0.9) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8474
11:34 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: it is forward secure.  Forward secure means an attacker which later gets access to the hosts and has a transcript of the communication cannot decode the transcript. The hashing is distructive, it cannot be reversed.
11:35 < gmaxwell> And it is fast so it can be frequently done, narrowing the window of compromise to pratically nothing.
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11:40 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: what you're suggesting would provide what SP800-90A calls prediction resistance. Which means that if an attacker gets a full read-only snapshot of your memory at some point, his ability to continue decoding the transcript at some point will stop.
11:43 < gmaxwell> Which isn't worthless-- but at what cost? with the added aggregate computational cost of that, I'd rather have initial key agreement which is secure against ECC breaks (E.g. quantum computers). simply because the attack model where an attacker can extract your session keys but for some reason can't just extract them again after you rekey, doesn't seem very interesting.
11:48 < GitHub79> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #8253: [TEST] [Travis] Remove hostname workaround (master...remove-travis-workaround) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8253
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11:50 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: IMO the problem with the current BIP rekey design is, if an attacker could manage to steal one symmetric key, he can also decrypt/tamper after a rekey.
11:51 < jonasschnelli> Maybe instead of hash(oldkey) we could just use hmac(oldkey, hash(ECDH-secret))
11:51 < jonasschnelli> (Where the second parameter is the HMAC key)
11:52 < jonasschnelli> The cost of a HMAC instead of a SHA should be minimal
11:53 < sipa> if he can steal the symmetric key, why would he not be able to steal the ecdh secret?
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11:53 < jonasschnelli> If the symmetric cipher is broken and he can do a known plaintext attack or something...
11:54 < jonasschnelli> Not sure... But I think the cost/benefits of HMAC over hash for a rekey is worth doing it.
11:55 < gmaxwell> hmac doesn't change anything here.
11:56 < gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: if he can do then the the cipher is totally busted, esp as the keying state is larger than is used in any given block, but sure the rekey could include the session ID.
11:59 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: wouldn't HMAC(oldkey, key=session_id or ecdh-secret) be considered more robust then just hash(oldkey)?
12:00 < jonasschnelli> But right, we should use the session-Id instead of hash(ecdh) secret.
12:00 < jonasschnelli> The session id was HKDF derived.
12:00 < gmaxwell> you must not keep around ecdh-secret, or backtracking resistance (forward secrecy) is diminished.
12:01 < jonasschnelli> Okay. So then HMAC with the session id as key?
12:01 < gmaxwell> HMAC vs using a hash is irrelevant in this place. Having the session id in there is fine.
12:02 < jonasschnelli> Okay.  hash(oldkey | sessionid)?
12:03 < gmaxwell> sessionid first would be more natural.
12:09 < jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: is there no security advantage using HMAC(oldkey, sessionID) over hash(sessionID || oldkey)?
12:11 < sipa> jonasschnelli: no, hmac only protects against length extension attacks
12:11 < sipa> jonasschnelli: which don't apply if the input data to the hash is constant size
12:11 < jonasschnelli> Ok
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13:52 < GitHub1> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #8477: [qa] Temporarily disable ipv6 in rpcbind test (master...Mf1608-qaIpv6) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8477
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19:19 < Chris_Stewart_5> Does the tx hash endianess matter for bloom filters?
19:20 < Chris_Stewart_5> specifically this test case has the endianess flipped compared to what is actually in the tx when it is deserialized
19:20 < Chris_Stewart_5> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/bloom_tests.cpp#L155
19:33 < Chris_Stewart_5> or the '0x' prefix flips the endianess..?
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21:51 < GitHub102> [bitcoin] unsystemizer opened pull request #8478: Ubuntu 14.04 server installs w/o curl (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8478
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23:24 < jl2012> could the size of a valid pubkey be some value other than 33 or 65?
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23:37 < sipa> jl2012: no
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