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02:25 < GitHub99> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a82e5d8220bb...1e5799c52535
02:25 < GitHub99> bitcoin/master fa27d99 MarcoFalke: [qa] create_cache: Delete temp dir when done
02:25 < GitHub99> bitcoin/master 1e5799c MarcoFalke: Merge #8713: [qa] create_cache: Delete temp dir when done...
02:25 < GitHub24> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #8713: [qa] create_cache: Delete temp dir when done (master...Mf1609-qaCacheTempdir) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8713
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02:32 < GitHub149> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #8744: [0.13.1] qa Backports (0.13...Mf1609-qaBackports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8744
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04:11 < rebroad> would anyone know why there's code in addrman.cpp to randomize the addresses sent in response to a getaddr?
04:19 < rebroad> weird.... block 430068 has a checksum ox 0x00000000
04:19 < rebroad> of
04:23 < rebroad> hmmm, then again it came from 54.199.196.58.. which is doing various weird things...
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05:30 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: sipa: there's an issue with the way the announce bit is set in 8393 (you can't change it).  github isn't letting me comment on the pull right now for some reason though 
05:31 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: anyway it's confusing to me to figure out what the logic for changing it should be
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06:03 < rebroad> why aren't problems with LogPrint detected at compile time as they would be with printf?
06:25 < BlueMatt> sipa: sdaftuar https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/e2ce06c917a38ccca5e3554e578ccd28417c2174
06:25 < BlueMatt> should fix it
06:29 < BlueMatt> oh ffs, now github is sending me two emails for every comment
06:31 < sdaftuar> BlueMatt: thanks, that looks right
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07:36 < sipa> rebroad: compiler magic
07:36 < sipa> rebroad: the c compiler recognizes printf in a special way
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07:49 < GitHub44> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #8745: [PoC] Add wallet inspection and modification tool "bitcoin-wallet-tool" (master...2016/09/wallet-tool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8745
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08:18 < luke-jr> sipa: well, it's possible to get printf-formatting rules on other functions, but LogPrintf isn't as picky as real printf [cc: rebroad]
08:20 < sipa> right, doing so would make the compiler warn about many things that are just fine for LogPrintf
08:23 < luke-jr> I wonder if some trick like http://codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/85031/compile-time-printf-style-format-checking would work
08:25 < GitHub64> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #8746: [Qt][RPC] Hide passphrases in debug console history (master...hide-walletpassphrase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8746
08:27 < jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: Did you had a look at the TinyFormat.h we are using? 
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09:26 < dgenr8> jonasschnelli: perfect, thank you!
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11:47 < Chris_Stewart_5> Does a full node remove a competing chain after X amount of blocks being ahead of it? Can a full node store competing chains for a small amount of time? 
11:48 < sipa> if there is no pruning, we never prune
11:48 < sipa> if we do, we prune after some time
11:48 < sipa> regardless of whether it's main chain or not
11:49 < Chris_Stewart_5> Hmm interesting. I've always wondered about this. So it will store ALL blocks indefinitely as long as they are valid ( meet POW threshold, all valid txs, etc?)
11:49 < sipa> even invalid blocks
11:49 < sipa> because not all checks can be done immediately
11:51 < Chris_Stewart_5> Like  time on the relative scale of performing all sigops? Or time for something else that takes much longer? 
11:54 < Chris_Stewart_5> sigops in the block*
11:54 < sipa> signature checks can only be done once we build the chainstate for tjat block, which requires processing the previous blocks
11:55 < sipa> if there is a reorganization, we don't do that until the chain takes over the other chain
11:57 < Chris_Stewart_5> Interesting, thanks for the explanation. 
11:58 < sipa> but we do certainly validate pow and syntactic correctness before storing blocks on dizk
11:58 < sipa> *disk
11:58 < sipa> which means an attack to fill up nodes' disks would be very expensove
11:58 < sipa> *expensive
11:58 < Chris_Stewart_5> yeah, that was what I just thinking about
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12:01 < Chris_Stewart_5> What is the relative cost of a SHA256(SHA256()) compared to an ECDSA signature verification? 
12:02 < Chris_Stewart_5> because if i'm understanding this correctly, to store that block we need to still build the merkle tree to check POW validity
12:05 < sipa> an ecdsa verification is equivalent to hashing around 15kB 
12:07 < GitHub107> [bitcoin] jonnynewbs opened pull request #8747: [rpc] Fix transaction size comments and RPC help text. (master...rpc_comments) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8747
12:08 < Chris_Stewart_5> much cheaper i guess, haha. 
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13:07 < jl2012> why SIGPUSHONLY is not a policy?
13:07 < luke-jr> ?
13:08 < sipa> it is part of strictenc, no?
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13:24 < luke-jr> Author: Johnson Lau <jl2012@users.noreply.github.com>
13:24 < luke-jr> jl2012: is this intentional?
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13:29 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: no
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13:39 < luke-jr> are we closing nested templates with >>  now? is that safe?
13:43 < sipa> yes
13:43 < sipa> it's required to be supported by c++11
13:44 < sipa> you can't do it in c++03, as the lexer is required by the standard there to treat >> is a single token
13:45 < sipa> also, (personal opinion on style), i despise '> >'.
13:46 < luke-jr> >.>
13:46 < midnightmagic> that's 1940s /w 2
13:46 < midnightmagic> :-( sorry.
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17:14 < GitHub128> [bitcoin] pstratem closed pull request #8585: [Wallet] Move IncOrderPosNext to CWallet::AddAccountingEntry (master...2016-08-24-cwallet-incorderposnext) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8585
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18:11 < phantomcircuit> sipa: so they're not compatible with each other?
18:11 < phantomcircuit> that's weird
18:16 < sipa> phantomcircuit: every c++03 valid program is valid in c++11
18:16 < sipa> because >> in templates can never be correctly interpreted as a shift
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19:04 < phantomcircuit> sipa: ok
19:05 < phantomcircuit> sipa: can you check 8695
19:11 < midnightmagic> lol is it my imagination or has gdb actually gotten worse for c++ over time
19:11 < midnightmagic> what do people use these days to debug coredumps and running C++ programs?
19:12 < sipa> gdb has gotten a lot better over timr
19:13 < sipa> you can now inspect vector elements etc
19:15 < sipa> phantomcircuit: yes yes, when i get back
19:24 < midnightmagic> sort of.
19:24 < midnightmagic> $foo.genesis.vtx._M_impl._M_start.vout._M_impl._M_start.scriptPubKey.begin() ?
19:24 < midnightmagic> :-/
19:27 < midnightmagic> or do you mean the pretty-printer that doesn't describe the actual data structure elements in a way that can be references without tab-completion (which only in like 2015/16 got the surprise-you-have-to-wait-for-a-global-million-member-search fix)
19:28 < midnightmagic> (which means almost no machines with gdb installed have it yet)
19:28  * midnightmagic gripes
19:35 < sipa> midnightmagic: i mean foo[0]
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19:42 < phantomcircuit> midnightmagic: printf
20:16 < jl2012> luke-jr: I just chose "don't show my email address"
20:16 < jl2012> updated
20:17 < jl2012> luke-jr, sipa: I found it. It's not STRICTENC, it's part of IsStandardTx
20:17 < jl2012> the SIGPUSHONLY flag is not used
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20:28 < luke-jr> jl2012: kinda ugly to affect git like that
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20:33 < jl2012> luke-jr: it's github's function
20:33 < jl2012> i didn't pay attention to that
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21:05 < midnightmagic> :-/ printf won't give me a pretty-printed struct dump!
21:10 < sipa> how recent is your gdb?
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21:36 < NicolasDorier> sipa: Have you tried to limit disk access by not writing on disk every time you validate a block ? The idea would be that we can skip lots of IO by caching in RAM an ongoing patch to the UTXO DB that we commit only once every hour during IBD or if there is memory pressure. I think we can skip some IO because if a UTXO is opened and closed during the same
21:36 < NicolasDorier> patch, it would consume no IO at all.
21:36 < NicolasDorier> It would also make database corruption less likely, as a corruption would be only possible if bitcoind savagely quit just when the patch is applied to the disk.
21:37 < sipa> NicolasDorier: we don't write to the utxo set frequently
21:37 < NicolasDorier> ah so you are already doing that ? :(
21:37 < sipa> depending on your dbcache setting you can do full validation from scratch without ever writing to the chainstate
21:38 < sipa> yes, it's a massive speedup
21:38 < sipa> we've been doing that since 0.8
21:38 < NicolasDorier> I thought dbcache was only for read from chainstate
21:38 < NicolasDorier> not writing
21:39 < sipa> it's both
21:39 < sipa> if a utxo entry is spent before being written to disk, it can be completely dropped, and will never even touch disk
21:40 < NicolasDorier> interesting thanks, I thought that things were written to disk every block
21:45 < sipa> with default settings it's maybe written every few dozen to a hundred blkcks
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22:14 < midnightmagic> sipa: 7.7.1-0ubuntu5 :-( so, a bit older I guess. Don't mind me, I'm just griping. :)
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23:06 < rebroad> I'd like to talk about Whitelisted nodes
23:07 < rebroad> I have a bunch of changed I'd like to work on but before I can there appears there needs to be some clarity on what a whitelisted node is supposed to be 
23:07 < rebroad> changes
23:07 < rebroad> for example, I'd like to make a change that says if a whitelisted node says a block is good then that block is treated as checkpointed
23:08 < rebroad> saving CPU for the node catching up
23:08 < rebroad> should I create a new category of node called "trusted" node, or would it be the same thing?
23:12 < rebroad> luke-jr, thanks for the cc earlier (just noticed it, irc didn't highlight it for some reason)... did I miss some conversation previously? you seemed to be replying to sipa but I didn't see any talk about printf between my question and that response from you.
23:15 < gmaxwell> rebroad: we would not accept bypassing validation. It would hardly make things faster in the common case, and it would drastically increase the risk of corruption or misconfiguration turning into contagion that casues massive outages.
23:15 < gmaxwell> you should assume all the checkpoint whatever will be removed in the next couple major revisions.
23:16 < gmaxwell> they're largely rendered pointless by prior software improvements.
23:17 < gmaxwell> the whitelisting is intended to bypass resource limits, for cases where trigger happy anti-dos rules might isolate or slow down a node of your own from its gateway to the outside world.
23:18 < gmaxwell> (the intended usage is primarily that-- nodes that act as gateways for other nodes of your own which can't directly access the outside world)
23:19 < rebroad> gmaxwell, if someone was running multiple nodes over a VPN for example... would they not want to reduce their overall CPU usage by letting the nodes share the work of validation though?
23:19 < rebroad> gmaxwell, VLAN i meant to say
23:19 < gmaxwell> because it wouldn't avoid any at runtime. When a node is running almost all the transactions are verified and cached long before the block shows up. The cpu spent when the block shows up is all hashing and database manipulation which can't be avoided.
23:20 < rebroad> gmaxwell, I'm speaking of an IBD situation
23:20 < gmaxwell> and beyond that, why even run multiple nodes when any disfunction/corruption/misconfiguration will silently spread and corrupt between them.
23:21 < rebroad> gmaxwell, if we're talking IBD then the validation could at least be saved
23:21 < rebroad> gmaxwell, or is that negligable compared with the hashing and database manipulation?
23:22 < rebroad> gmaxwell, I guess for IBD specifically then you are going to suggest rsync as a better way :)
23:22 < gmaxwell> Not compeltely negligible, but it's not so great anymore with libsecp2561k... and even that still can get another 20% faster.. and on hosts with many cores other upcoming changes will make that part a couple times faster.
23:22 < gmaxwell> I suppose rsync is an option too and _much_ faster.
23:22 < rebroad> gmaxwell, good to hear. thanks
23:22 < gmaxwell> NP.
23:22 < gmaxwell> (no problem)
23:23 < rebroad> gmaxwell, I am not up to speed on the overall roadmap of core.. I have seen the scaling roadmap, but is there an overall roadmap?
23:23 < gmaxwell> The roadmap is what people will actually work on, largely. 
23:24 < gmaxwell> there are many things which people would like to, I'd suggest reading through the bitcoin core zurich meeting notes for things people are working on/planning on working on.
23:24 < rebroad> gmaxwell, also, hope my comment to your issue on BU was ok - I was thinking that perhaps they were of the mindset that SegWit might be unlikely to happen/fork, so was trying to pre-empt that possible assumption (Which might lead to them not even responding).. plus I think it's valid question - there does appear to be an assumption that SegWit will happen, but I'm not so far aware of the information behind that 
23:24 < rebroad> assumption
23:25 < rebroad> gmaxwell, I'd like to read those notes - where would I find them please?
23:26 < rebroad> luke-jr, ah.. it only highlights me to messages that start with rebroad it would seem
23:26 < gmaxwell> google, sorry, I can't really provide links right now. Don't have a working pointing device.
23:26 < rebroad> gmaxwell, you have your finger but you're lacking the interface to your current working pointing devices ;)
23:27 < gmaxwell> rebroad: response to me from discussion on the lists and with many users tells me that it will be activate for certian. If not, I don't much care, but I don't want anyone to be unnecessarily left behind.
23:27 < luke-jr> rebroad: I don't recall the conversation. sipa replied to you across 4 or 5 lines, which I was adding to
23:28 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: if you could find the transcribe for rebroad that would be really helpful.
23:28 < rebroad> luke-jr, oh.. for some reason it's not showing up in my window (sipa's response)...  erm.. might you be able to point me towards the archive of the logs so I can try to find his reponse? weird.. my computer has been connected between my question and your reply..
23:28 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: not easily unfortunately; about to board leg 2 of 3
23:29 < luke-jr> rebroad: /topic
23:29 < rebroad> luke-jr, /topic?
23:29 < luke-jr> rebroad: the logs are linked in the channel "topic"
23:29 < luke-jr> typically at the top of the window
23:30 < rebroad> luke-jr, gmaxwell I am fascinated to know what you are travelling so much for... I am wondering if perhaps I might attend the meetup in Milan
23:31 < rebroad> luke-jr, gmaxwell not meaning to imply I'm at your level of expertise or anything (I know I am not)
23:31 < luke-jr> i think this was zurich: https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2016/05/20/
23:32 < rebroad> found the logs (https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/)
23:32 < rebroad> luke-jr, ah, thanks
23:33 < gmaxwell> rebroad: I didn't respond to you on the BU github before because when I tried to reply I got a red "You can't comment here at this time." box. I tried again just now and it worked.
23:34 < luke-jr> rebroad: I do consulting for various Bitcoin stuff, but I try to minimise travel even then :p
23:34 < gmaxwell> rebroad: Many people would love to see you in milan. Though I think it's sold out right now.
23:35 < luke-jr> bbl
23:36 < rebroad> gmaxwell, ok, was not expecting that response. well, there may be other opportunities. please feel free to let me know of future opportunities - I do feel I've not been communicating well, and I know from experience that I come across to people much better in person
23:37 < rebroad> gmaxwell, also my workflow is pretty terrible and could do with some refinement - I would rather not be submitting commits that don't compile/run correctly :-s
23:37 < gmaxwell> The same is true for many of us.
23:37  * gmaxwell out &
23:37 < gmaxwell> :)
23:37 < rebroad> lol , you backgrounded your outness