--- Day changed Wed Oct 26 2016
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00:24 < jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: my tests showed my that sudden shutdowns (power off situation) will result in corrupt databases (=require for re-sync) during IBD
00:24 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: quite different from a kill
00:25 < jonasschnelli> kill is a flexible term. :)
00:25 < jonasschnelli> ./kill is more specific
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00:26 < jonasschnelli> I ran into different corruptions on Linux/Debian 1) when running out of memory 2) random corruption on USB device, 3) on OSX when force shutdown a process (lldb), 4) Window 10 in VMWare sudden power off
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00:27 < jonasschnelli> All during IBD
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01:06 < GitHub193> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9bdf5269f886...54259370ae93
01:06 < GitHub193> bitcoin/master 339c4b6 Cory Fields: release: bump required osx version to 10.8. Credit jonasschnelli....
01:06 < GitHub193> bitcoin/master 5425937 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9015: release: bump required osx version to 10.8. (jonasschnelli)...
01:07 < GitHub90> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9015: release: bump required osx version to 10.8. (jonasschnelli) (master...osx-disable107) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9015
01:07 < GitHub60> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 new commit to 0.13: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/a32d7c23fc0eedebe3579edb5d488a4c63b67b70
01:07 < GitHub60> bitcoin/0.13 a32d7c2 Cory Fields: release: bump required osx version to 10.8. Credit jonasschnelli....
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01:16 < blur3d> Hey Core. Just a thank you message for your all your work. Keep doing what you guys are doing. Ignore the outside pressures, and keep bitcoin from becoming centeralised. All of the fear mongering ignores the simple fact that the bitcoin network would be near impossible to replicate from scratch. Any transitional periods may have some discomfort, but compromising the network for short term bandaides is for fools.
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01:20 < rabidus_> i'll sign that message also.
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01:45 < midnightmagic> are there any plans to stuff some detached sigs into the repo for v0.13.1rc3..?
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02:02 < btcdrak> blur3d: thank you for saying.
02:02 < btcdrak> midnightmagic: there are no plans for a binary for 0.13.1rc3
02:03 < btcdrak> so there is no point building gitian sigs for rc3
02:04 < gmaxwell> some people build sigs for rc3 to allow comparison, etc.
02:04 < gmaxwell> I hope in the future we manage to make it so unmodified rc->final doesn't change the gitian sigs.
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02:09 < jonasschnelli> I guess midnightmagic is refering to code-signature detatched sigs (OSX/WIN) these would only be required if there would be binary releases (which we won't do for rc3 IMO)
02:10 < luke-jr> not sure why rc3 was even tagged :p
02:15 < gmaxwell> Causes more people to test.
02:16 < gmaxwell> and update their tests.
02:16 < timothy> gmaxwell: how? you still have to change the version
02:16 < gmaxwell> timothy: the version in the software is already 0.13.1. There is only some build automation that inserts the git-tag.
02:17 < timothy> oh ok
02:17 < timothy> I tough you still have rc3 in version name
02:17 < gmaxwell> timothy: but for tagged builds (e.g. releases) we could display the hash of the binary instead of setting the tag, or some hash of the source instead. 
02:17 < gmaxwell> and then the binary would really be identical.
02:17 < gmaxwell> timothy: we try to change nothing. even really changing the tag implies some small risk.
02:18 < timothy> I agree :)
02:18 < wumpus> blur3d: thank you
02:18 < gmaxwell> (as there are processor design flaws that are alignment sensitive; a different string size could change offsets in the build, and mean that a release could be produced which consistenty crashed on a small set of hardware that tested fine with the rc)
02:20 < gmaxwell> firefox bug tracker is full of nightmare fuel: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1281759
02:20 < gmaxwell> "This adds some 4-byte NOPs to this IC stub on x86 if CPU family is 20 and model is 0-2. According to AMD engineers, limiting the number of branches per cache line might help, so I'm hopeful this will work."
02:20 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: if we have such issues, I suspect we have bigger problems than changing the version number? :p
02:21 < wumpus> gmaxwell: that sounds like GPU compiler design :)
02:21 < wumpus> it doesn't work? add moar nops
02:22 < gmaxwell> there are a bunch of these -- amd seems to be especially guilty.  branch predictor bugs where under particular sets of instructions it'll just ignore a jmp.
02:22 < luke-jr> :|     
02:23 < gmaxwell> and then mozilla puts out a new update that does nothing but change the PGO weights around a bit and then the crashes go away.
02:23 < wumpus> oh yes I'm sure the abuse of branch prediction caches to subvert ASLR (locally) is just the beginning, if people are really going to look into those bugs deeply I'm sure some are exploitable
02:23 < gmaxwell> then another update to change someting insignificant... and all those hosts are crashing again.
02:24 < wumpus> (e.g. make it skip the jmp that rejects the authentication)
02:27 < gmaxwell> hmmm
02:27 < luke-jr> wumpus: would you entertain support for TQt btw? or is that something I'd need to maintain out of tree?
02:28 < gmaxwell> Se, Greg ate d witness.
02:28 < gmaxwell> I never knew I named that after myself.
02:28 < timothy> gmaxwell: is arm better? :P
02:28 < wumpus> luke-jr: TQT?
02:29 < luke-jr> wumpus: Qt3 fork
02:29 < wumpus> timothy: unfortunately, no, though the specific bugs are different
02:29 < wumpus> (except for rowhammer, everyone loves rowhammer)
02:29 < luke-jr> with stuff like thread support, and maintained by TDE
02:29 < wumpus> luke-jr: why would you fork qt3? that seems ancient
02:30 < gmaxwell> timothy: no. beyond actual silicon flaws it's hard to find ANY arm board that can handle being run full out without becoming unstable. None of the boards are built for actual usage.
02:30 < luke-jr> wumpus: originally, because KDE 4 went downhill, and they wanted to maintain KDE 3
02:30 < gmaxwell> Most reliable I've used has been the novena, though without a active fan on it, the libsecp256k1 tests will still make it hit a thermal emergency cutoff.
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02:31 < timothy> I tried to have a full node on a banana pi. it crashes often :P
02:31 < wumpus> I've good experiences with cubox-i's, seems they got the cooling right
02:32 < wumpus> imx6 is also supported in mainline linux + the graphics drivers were partially written by me :)
02:32 < wumpus> 32 bit, though
02:32 < gmaxwell> imx family ends up in a lot of industrial control stuff too, probably less likely than armcores that are only used in smartphones to be buggy.
02:33 < wumpus> yes, even in planes, you'd hope they take stabilty seriously :)
02:34 < luke-jr> I'd kinda hope the planes don't rely on standard CPU stability
02:35 < wumpus> not only, for any vehicle control system, there's always fallbacks
02:36 < tulip> luke-jr: there's documentation about plane control out there, they seem to be nominally dual or triple redundant, even going so far as to have quorum between multiple devices. you can commonly get CPUs designed for doing medical control now which do lock stepped ARM cores and a comparator between them. 
02:36 < luke-jr> tulip: yeah, those would be the *non-*standard CPUs :p
02:37 < wumpus> I'm more worried about cars in that regard
02:38 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: lockstep cpus are a basically off the shelf part now,  ti hercules, for example. It's inexpensive too, though not very fast.
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02:40 < rabidus_> e     
02:42 < wumpus> luke-jr: but re: qt3, I think it would be a shame to introduce that just now that everything is converging on qt5
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02:42 < luke-jr> Talos ships with TDE? :P
02:43 < luke-jr> but yeah, I kindof agree
02:43  * luke-jr kicks his IRC client that takes a full second to change channel tabs since compiling it against Qt5
02:45 < wumpus> and ideally, focusing on a single version means that less effort has to go into compatiblity and more can to improving the experience for users
02:52 < wumpus> why does Talos ship with TDE?
02:53 < luke-jr> common lead guy
02:54 < wumpus> right
02:57 < luke-jr> ☺     
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03:03 < GitHub119> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #9020: rpc: Remove invalid explanation from wallet fee message (master...2016_10_wallet_message) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9020
03:05 < wumpus> instagibbs: re: #9016 are you sure that problem will always be logged to the debug log when a transaction coming through RPC is rejected? If not, pointing the user to debug.log could result in a wild goose chase
03:05 < wumpus> we did make the transaction validation a lot less noisy in recent versions
03:06 < GitHub64> [bitcoin] gzuser01 opened pull request #9021: zetacoin 0.13 (master...gzuser01-patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9021
03:06 < gmaxwell> time to close? ^
03:06 < gmaxwell> 5     
03:06 < gmaxwell> 4     
03:06 < gmaxwell> 3     
03:06 < gmaxwell> 2     
03:06 < gmaxwell> 1     
03:06 < wumpus> the bot is slow
03:06 < GitHub60> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9021: zetacoin 0.13 (master...gzuser01-patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9021
03:06 < gmaxwell> close enough.
03:07 < GitHub197> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #9022: Update release notes to mention dropping OS X 10.7 support (0.13...0-13-1-osx-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9022
03:45 < gmaxwell> so interesting, last block (by bitclub network) had 866 transactions,  prior blocks (all same max size)-- 1942, 1422, 2215, 2145, 1905..  I wonder why bitclub's transactions were so much larger?
03:45 < gmaxwell> they also collect a lot more fees.
03:48 < gmaxwell> 1.239 BTC vs, .513 .839 .723 .689 
03:51 < gmaxwell> I see it earlier too. antpool mined a block with .714 btc in fees in 2288 transactions, then bitclub with 1783 transactions but .950 btc in fees. 
03:51 < wumpus> interesting, a custom strategy to maximize fees?
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03:53 < gmaxwell> well I know that earlier both slush and antpool failed to mine a fairly attractive CPFP (where the parent had ample fees for relay).. the bitclub picked it up.
03:53 < gmaxwell> so it ~might~ be 0.13 vs not.
04:01 < gmaxwell> right now my GBT returns 1.03 btc in fees for a 1MB block.
04:01 < gmaxwell> hm. if it weren't 4am I'd hack update tip to do a gbt and log the total fee amount from the result before processing a block.
04:03 < gmaxwell> in any case if 435976 has less than 1.06 btc in fees, something is up.
04:11 < GitHub58> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #9023: Add logging to bitcoin-util-test.py (master...btutiltestlogging) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9023
04:11 < gmaxwell> logging now, 
04:11 < gmaxwell> Wed Oct 26 11:10:29 UTC 2016 435975 109856937
04:11 < gmaxwell> 1477480260 435976 99407716
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04:14 < gmaxwell> so 435976 could hav collected 1.09 by my observation, collected 0.953 instead (not that much worse), and immediately after it the next block could connect 0.994 ... pretty good.
04:14 < gmaxwell> Take that mining is unstable people. :P
04:15 < gmaxwell> also bc.i is like seriously behind.
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04:15 < gmaxwell> oops I was looking at 435975 there.
04:17 < gmaxwell> also wtf, getblock needs a "true" for its verbose argument, while getrawtransaction needs a "1".
04:17 < gmaxwell> okay 435976 took 1.003 which is pretty close to what I saw right before.
04:20 < GitHub9> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/54259370ae93...86f9e3dbba41
04:20 < GitHub9> bitcoin/master 04c1c15 Wladimir J. van der Laan: rpc: Remove invalid explanation from wallet fee message
04:20 < GitHub9> bitcoin/master 86f9e3d Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9020: rpc: Remove invalid explanation from wallet fee message...
04:20 < GitHub162> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9020: rpc: Remove invalid explanation from wallet fee message (master...2016_10_wallet_message) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9020
04:24 < wumpus> that's slightly curious, maybe getrawtransaction author expected an 'even more verbose' format at some point and pass '2'? it'd have made sense for `getblock` and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8704
04:25 < wumpus> getblock \"hash\" ( verbose ) ( extraVerbose )  is a bit silly as APIs go
04:25 < wumpus> but it'd better have been called verbosityLevel then
04:26 < luke-jr> IIRC originally there was a bunch of flags on an Object controlling verbosity
04:27 < wumpus> really? seems like a reversion then
04:27 < wumpus> in any case the RPC could be trivially changed to accept 'true' for '1' too
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04:28 < wumpus> (and false for 0)
04:28 < gmaxwell> yea, that might be reasonable.  I've notied this true/1 thing before and thought I was nuts. :)
04:28 < gmaxwell> 1477480364 435976 101621240
04:28 < gmaxwell> 1477481079 435976 108481648
04:28 < gmaxwell> 435977 takes 1.01339 btc in fees.
04:28 < gmaxwell> 1477481089 435977 94256908
04:29 < gmaxwell> so either miner at 435977 has 715 seconds of latency from gbt->mining, or their transaction selection is less optimal than 0.13.1 on my desktop with defaults + weight=4m. 
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04:31 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: or they're being paid out of band as most big pools seem to now
04:31 < gmaxwell> I looked, don't appear to have a wad of free transactions.
04:32 < luke-jr> hm     
04:32 < gmaxwell> oh well I know why that miner's selection would be suboptimal.. 0.12.x code (they claim to run BU)
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04:40 < luke-jr> XD     
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04:43 < wumpus> wasn't far of the mark with misconfigured/weird software hypothesis
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05:11 < GitHub151> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #9025: getrawtransaction should take a bool for verbose (master...getrawtransbool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9025
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06:59 < adiabat> Hi, I have an admittedly nit-picky request for the rpc calls
06:59 < adiabat> could we put "weight" in the getrawtransaction return?
07:00 < adiabat> right now getrawtransaction returns "size" and "vsize", while getblock returns "strippedsize", "size", and "weight"
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07:09 < adiabat> the "true" vs "1" sillyness in rpc calls just reminded me.  If you want the "weight" of a transaction you have to calculate it from size and vsize.
07:11 < adiabat> also I may be missing something but I don't think verbosity does anything to the getblock command
07:11 < jonasschnelli> adiabat: This would be easy to implement... maybe give it a try?!
07:11 < jonasschnelli> Or open an issue on github
07:11 < jonasschnelli> You need to add a call to GetTransactionWeight()
07:12 < jonasschnelli> somewhere near entry.push_back(Pair("vsize", (int)::GetVirtualTransactionSize(tx)));
07:12 < adiabat> ok, sure
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08:30 < sipa> adiabat: originally i wanted weight to be purely an internal thing, and have vsize be the exposed value
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09:00 < adiabat> sipa: Hmm ok, should we put vsize in the block info instead?
09:01 < sipa> adiabat: nah, weight is better in any case
09:02 < sipa> i'm just mentioning it to explain why weight isn't in gettransaction
09:02 < adiabat> OK I'll look at putting weight in the getrawtransaction return data
09:03 < adiabat> also the 'verbosity' on getblock, not sure what that does... if it does nothing, maybe can get rid of it
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09:03 < sipa> it is about returning 1) just txids 2) full tx info 3) full tx data
09:14 < btcdrak> wumpus: I have found a bug in univalue JSON export, where do I submit the patch?
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09:27 < jtimon> quick question on the blocksigning stuff, what flags should I use for block signing (ie #define BLOCK_SIGN_SCRIPT_FLAGS (SCRIPT_VERIFY_P2SH|SCRIPT_VERIFY_WITNESS) is what I have for now)
09:28 < jtimon> some obviously don't make sense like cltv and csv
09:29 < jtimon> for others like SCRIPT_VERIFY_MINIMALIF or SCRIPT_VERIFY_NULLFAIL feels like why not?
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09:50 < wumpus> btcdrak: upstream to jgarzik/univalue, and we can merge it to bitcoin-core/univalue if that takes too long / is urgent
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10:17 < jtimon> what's the opposite operation of ParseHex() ?
10:19 < sipa> HexStr
10:19 < Chris_Stewart_5> HexStr?
10:20 < jtimon> thanks!
10:21 < jtimon> they were on the same file *hides*
10:25 < sipa> hiding in plain sight, as they say
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10:39 < btcdrak> wumpus: well it isnt urgent. Problem is it will need to be merged into Core along at the same time as a tweak of some test cases in the test/data/*.json files.
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11:31 < GitHub114> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #9026: Fix handling of invalid compact blocks (master...fix-invalidcb-handling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9026
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12:29 < btcdrak> Please review: "Add segwit upgrade guide" https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/240
12:48 < michagogo> btcdrak: there seem to be a few things that look like they should be links that are missing the links
12:48 < michagogo> Things like [some text][]
12:49 < michagogo> Is that intentional?
12:49 < michagogo> I don't know enough about markdown
12:53 < btcdrak> michagogo: they are in the references.md include near the top
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12:56 < michagogo> btcdrak: I see that for the BIPs
12:57 < michagogo> But it looks like there are two missing
12:57 < michagogo> Or, wait a sec
12:57 < btcdrak> well please comment on the PR
12:57 < michagogo> No, I found them
12:58 < michagogo> Like I said, I'm not really familiar with advanced markdown and didn't want to make a stupid comment :P
12:58 < michagogo> So if there's a reference, you can do [text][] if you want the link text to match the reference?
12:59 < michagogo> [text1][text2] is just if it differs?
13:00 < btcdrak> yes     
13:01 < michagogo> I see.
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14:27 < gmaxwell> uh revealing errors.
14:27 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: https://btc.com/000000000000000002eb076392586c5b034ba3826ff6adb459bc57db4191943e  reveals that eligius is just hardcoing versions in a dangerous way.
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14:44 < gmaxwell> Anyone feel like extracting the amount of fees per block recently?  Here is what the node on my desktop would have made blocks for: http://0bin.net/paste/y4kPmRYLiiuN5gTN#kpX3urA92l6Ggly0MgcThd9VHzNSKP7WZw6ce6bq5rI
14:45 < btcdrak> I extracted this today
14:45 < btcdrak> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JlV5_3q251V7wJM87MH89kT_j8A26b7qM-ThYn2p65g/edit#gid=0
14:49 < morcos> gmaxwell: i actually have a long running node that has been calculating that but only considering txs it actually saw in its mempool.   got to run now.. but can get you the results form that later
14:49 < morcos> don't think its that different, thank goodness
14:54 < gmaxwell> btcdrak: can you merge in my data where it overlaps and show the difference?
14:59 < btcdrak> gmaxwell: done
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15:52 < phantomcircuit> btcdrak: the average transaction sizes are really high
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16:53 < gmaxwell> wow, gbminers block 436404 failed to collect .246 btc in fees.
16:55 < gmaxwell> bitclub is the only miner that beat my node in these observations
16:55 < gmaxwell> and only slightly
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16:59 < gmaxwell> average amount of missed fees by 'block source':
16:59 < gmaxwell> BitClub -0.00241024
16:59 < gmaxwell> BitFury 0.0182999
16:59 < gmaxwell> BTC.com 0.0286225
16:59 < gmaxwell> HaoBTC 0.0291582
16:59 < gmaxwell> SlushPool 0.0402993
16:59 < gmaxwell> BTCC 0.0504893
16:59 < gmaxwell> AntPool 0.0606765
16:59 < gmaxwell> F2Pool 0.080212
16:59 < gmaxwell> ViaBTC 0.0886112
16:59 < gmaxwell> Bitcoin.com 0.106677
16:59 < gmaxwell> BW.COM 0.125634
16:59 < gmaxwell> Unknown 0.166871
16:59 < gmaxwell> GBMiners 0.246336
17:00 < gmaxwell> Eligius 0.589615
17:00 < gmaxwell> Telco 0.709605
17:01 < TD-Linux> gmaxwell, well 0.246 btc loss is directly proportional to their block size
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17:02 < gmaxwell> Indeed.
17:02 < Lightsword> gmaxwell, do you have stats on kano’s ckpool and ck’s solopool?
17:02 < TD-Linux> also I don't think there's really enough samples there to draw a conclusion. would be neat to automate this though.
17:03 < gmaxwell> they didn't fine a block in the union of my and btcdrak's observation windows. I have mempool data for 435976 to now.
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17:03 < gmaxwell> s/fine/find/
17:03 < sipa> gmaxwell: over how many blocks is this data?
17:04 < gmaxwell> 67     
17:05 < gmaxwell> here is the max from that data, BitClub -0.00042054 HaoBTC 0.03818631 BitFury 0.05457683 BTC.com 0.07372295 SlushPool 0.09595818 BTCC 0.09886828 ViaBTC 0.11170776 F2Pool 0.12080682 Bitcoin.com 0.12846755 AntPool 0.14341536 Unknown 0.16687057 BW.COM 0.18705609 GBMiners 0.24633568 Telco 0.709605 Eligius 1.03414
17:05 < gmaxwell> I can also estimate mining process latency from this. I'm saving the fees for my gbt every 10 seconds.
17:06 < gmaxwell> e.g. "you mined fees consistent with forming your block 30 seconds ago"
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18:14 < jeremyrubin> gmaxwell: can you normalize by block size?
18:25 < midnightmagic> I'm going to regen the entire build instead of modifying the .assert in place to be able to say I ran it plus gverify against the other two sigs in there, michagogo et al
18:25 < midnightmagic> sorry for the mixup
18:32 < gmaxwell> jeremyrubin: okay, I added two columns, one is my mempool fees sscaled to the actual block size, the next is the difference.
18:32 < gmaxwell> which now shows the small blocks as slightly negative, which makes sense, since they took the highest fee txn.
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18:42 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: that looks like the fallback where Eloipool has to guess the template itself until GBT completes
18:42 < luke-jr> it's supposed to be based on the previous valid template, not sure what's going wrong there
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18:55 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: fix.
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20:51 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: looks like it was in wizkid057's GBT proxy thing.. [03:34:24] <wizkid057> oh, I never commited that to the production server
20:51 < luke-jr> >_<     
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22:34 < whphhg> Sup blockstream
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23:11 < GitHub7> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9022: Update release notes to mention dropping OS X 10.7 support (0.13...0-13-1-osx-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9022
23:11 < GitHub177> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to 0.13: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a32d7c23fc0e...03422e564b55
23:11 < GitHub177> bitcoin/0.13 1d12463 Michael Ford: Update release notes for dropping osx 10.7 support
23:11 < GitHub177> bitcoin/0.13 03422e5 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9022: Update release notes to mention dropping OS X 10.7 support...
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23:21 < wumpus> would be interesting to check this against univalue http://seriot.ch/parsing_json.html
23:22 < jonasschnelli> wumpus: heh. Yes. Someone should turn this into unit-tests.
23:22 < jonasschnelli> Maybe open an easy-to-implement issue?
23:22 < jonasschnelli> though not sure how easy it is.
23:23 < wumpus> it seems pretty straightforward to run the tests, if the files + results are available. Fixing the discovered issues is proably far from easy-to-implement :)
23:24 < jonasschnelli> Indeed...
23:24 < wumpus> but even without that it'd be interesting to see how it compares
23:26 < wumpus> hopefully there's nothing in the "parser crashed" category, we've done quite a lot of fuzzing
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23:30 < jonasschnelli> I'm glad all JSON operations are hidden behind the HTTP Auth... 
23:31 < jonasschnelli> With rest it gets a bit more risky...
23:31 < wumpus> I've purposedly kept JSON parsing out of REST
23:31 < wumpus> just simple query strings
23:32 < jonasschnelli> Ah. Right. Only output.
23:33 < wumpus> output far from as much of a risk as parsing
23:33 < wumpus> +is     
23:33 < wumpus> still possible for there to be bugs there, but much less scope for trickery
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23:36 < btcdrak> btw this is the issue I found with Univalue https://github.com/jgarzik/univalue/pull/29 - wasted quite a few hours trying to work out why some tests were failing because of this.
23:38 < btcdrak> oh, I see wumpus found the PR already :-)
23:38 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9028
23:38 < wumpus> btcdrak: if tests are failing due to a trailing space you're doing comparison in the wrong domain
23:39 < wumpus> I agree with your pull request but not that it should cause (non-JSON-pedanticness) tests to fail :)
23:41 < wumpus> but I'd say, to compare two json documents: parse them and compare the underlying data. Don't compare pretty-printed representations
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23:45 < btcdrak> wumpus: well we have tests that compare the json output of "./bitcoin-tx -json ..." with a json file. trailing white space can get trimmed by IDE/editor settings. Trailing white space has no place in a json file. If it wasnt for that nice "log errors as diff" patch to bitcoin-unit-test.py submitted yesterday I would have lost my mind.
23:46 < wumpus> I understand, but there is no standard way to pretty-print JSON
23:46 < wumpus> having the tests depend on how the jSON lib happens to do pretty printing is fragile
23:47 < wumpus> ideally the tests should compare the data, not the text
23:48 < btcdrak> yes, I agree.
23:49 < wumpus> I think we have some similar problems in other places, which complicated switching JSON libraries last time
23:50 < wumpus> not a huge proiority to change ofcourse
23:50 < btcdrak> but while indentation may not have a standard, I think trailing whitespace has no place in any output.
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23:51 < luke-jr> but what if you want to embed a Whitespace program? :p
23:51 < wumpus> as I said I agree with your PR, I don't think emitting trailing whitespace is desirable, but if it causes test failures that points at a deeper issue
23:52 < btcdrak> yup     
23:52 < wumpus> next time the problem may be the other way around, someone accidentally adds trailing whitespace to the example and the test fails
23:52 < wumpus> and spend hours debugging that problem instead of something that matters :)
23:53 < wumpus> luke-jr: ah yes, white-space steganogrpaphy
23:53 < btcdrak> haha yes.
23:53 < btcdrak> well again, I found changing a 1 to a 2 isnt that straight forward....
23:53 < btcdrak> wumpus: can you restart https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/builds/170827031, dunno why Travis borked
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23:54 < luke-jr> wumpus: do you have any expectation of further merges before tagging?
23:54 < wumpus> luke-jr: if there are further improvements to the release notes
23:55 < wumpus> otherwise, no