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offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 08:22 -!- unholymachine [~quassel@209.58.133.168] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:26 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:2941:c6bd:c7bb:481c] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:37 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:2941:c6bd:c7bb:481c] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:38 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:54 -!- shtirlic [~shtirlic@ec2-35-158-173-101.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 08:55 -!- Fabiola58Stanton [~Fabiola58@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:00 -!- ula [~ula@b2b-78-94-11-194.unitymedia.biz] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:03 -!- str4d [~str4d@210.196.6.51.dyn.plus.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:06 -!- Fabiola58Stanton [~Fabiola58@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:07 -!- Danilo_ [~quassel@177.95.22.180] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kekimusmaximus opened pull request #12181: [TRIVIAL] Remove continue statement at the end of loop. (master...redundant_continue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12181 09:18 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kekimusmaximus opened pull request #12182: [TRIVIAL] Remove useless string initialization. (master...remove_useless_string_init) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12182 09:24 -!- hirishaway is now known as hirish 09:26 -!- Arvidt [~Arvidt@p5DE6A876.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:27 < Arvidt> Hi, what's the reason for the spike in bitcoin connections to my full node since yesterday? normally under 40, now up to 120. Many say they wher bitcoinj:0.14.5 and bitcore:1.1.0 09:31 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:877:857e:bab5:2af9] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:34 -!- Randolf [~randolf@96.53.47.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:36 < achow101> Arvidt: probably spy nodes 09:36 < achow101> there will often be people who fire up thousands of nodes based on bitcoinj and then try to connect to everyone on the network in order to spy on transaction broadcasts 09:38 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:42 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:43 < Arvidt> According to my Munin graph this one looks special. Around 1st November there was a spike to 60. Now it jumped up from 40 to 120 in one day and even after starting my node today (after doing backup) fresh up again, it jumped straight up to 120 again (left maxconnection parameter at default of 125) in two hours. Never seen that before. 09:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kekimusmaximus opened pull request #12183: Make use of emplace_back in nonassociative containers. (master...use_emplace) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12183 09:49 -!- Danilo_ [~quassel@177.95.22.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50 -!- mrannanay [uid222022@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zizbjmbtshnwzsao] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:53 -!- Danilo_ [~quassel@177.95.22.180] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:56 -!- piBTCdev [~pi@2601:14e:101:faa0::2] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 09:59 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:00 -!- CrazyTux[m] [~CrazyTuxm@ip174-67-194-151.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:01 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 10:04 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:877:857e:bab5:2af9] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:d008:2477:84ac:1c05] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:08 -!- Rebeka42Auer [~Rebeka42A@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:10 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:11 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:d008:2477:84ac:1c05] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:14 -!- mrannanay [uid222022@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnlxawxkyabsfnnt] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:20 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:22 -!- donaloconnor [~Donal@80.111.255.30] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:25 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:35 -!- ossifrage [~ossifrage@unaffiliated/ossifrage] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:35 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:39 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40 -!- dermoth [~dermoth@gateway/tor-sasl/dermoth] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:41 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:51 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-3-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 10:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kekimusmaximus opened pull request #12184: [TRIVIAL] Drop C headers in favour of C++-compatibility headers. (master...cpp11_includes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12184 11:10 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-3-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10 < Victorsueca> Cross-talk from #bitcoin here, I was wondering if there is any PR or plans to add hardware wallet support to Bitcoin Core 11:10 -!- shtirlic [~shtirlic@ec2-35-158-173-101.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 11:11 < Victorsueca> I remember having seen something about that but not sure 11:11 -!- shtirlic [~shtirlic@Shtirlic-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:13 -!- develvad [51002385@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.0.35.133] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:13 -!- Arvidt [~Arvidt@p5DE6A876.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:14 -!- develvad [51002385@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.0.35.133] has quit [Client Quit] 11:14 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14 -!- Babozor [~babozor@2a01:e35:8b35:8720:d0bf:1854:c2bd:e9f5] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:15 < achow101> Victorsueca: people are working on it, but the wallet stuff will need a lot of major changes to allow that 11:15 < chainhead> I've seen a branch here: https://github.com/instagibbs/bitcoin/commits/hww_support 11:16 < Victorsueca> thanks for the info 11:18 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:18 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:b426:cfc:2211:b9b1] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:28 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:32 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-204-28-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:32 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:33 -!- YellowSphere [~YellowSph@31.204.104.212] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:35 -!- Rebeka42Auer [~Rebeka42A@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:38 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41 -!- moctost [~moctost@173.244.200.116] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:46 -!- moctost_ [~moctost@cpe-107-9-138-59.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11:48 -!- moctost [~moctost@173.244.200.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:48 -!- moctost_ is now known as moctost 11:53 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:b426:cfc:2211:b9b1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:41d0:3ecc:a1bd:9fb1] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:02 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:02 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:41d0:3ecc:a1bd:9fb1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04 -!- tectonic [~tectonic@152.42.196.35.bc.googleusercontent.com] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 12:07 < larafale> is it possible that a block only contains a coinbase ? last block 504,229 is empty. 12:07 < sipa> yes, perfectly possible, happens all the time 12:08 < larafale> sipa: ok thx :) 12:08 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:8da6:b712:c1bf:f1f7] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:13 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:8da6:b712:c1bf:f1f7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:15 -!- shtirlic [~shtirlic@Shtirlic-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:16 -!- shtirlic [~shtirlic@Shtirlic-2-pt.tunnel.tserv6.fra1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:22 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:27 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:32 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:34 -!- Gabriel19Hills [~Gabriel19@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 12:36 -!- Krellan 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276 seconds] 14:07 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 14:10 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:15 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:22 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:25 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26 -!- Victorsueca [~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:29 < instagibbs> Victorsueca, chainhead, latest is https://github.com/instagibbs/bitcoin/tree/external_sign_4 but it's in no way upstreamable due to underlying changes required to make it sane 14:34 -!- JayBerg [~satoshi@c-24-4-144-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #12181: [TRIVIAL] Remove continue statement at the end of loop. (master...redundant_continue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12181 14:53 -!- baldur [~baldur@pool-100-2-154-254.nycmny.btas.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14:58 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:59 -!- wunpunch [~Alli@2a02:c7f:282a:6c00:5940:c345:fb63:16fe] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:01 -!- Vern70Metz [~Vern70Met@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:04 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 15:06 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@240f:d:e193:1:1dc9:d738:299a:684a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:25 -!- donaloconnor [~Donal@80.111.255.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:30 -!- keks [5b4055c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.85.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:30 -!- larafale [~larafale@ax213-1-82-66-157-194.fbx.proxad.net] has quit 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Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22 < CubicEarths> sipa: you here? 16:24 -!- Danilo__ [~quassel@177.95.22.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:27 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@athedsl-91412.home.otenet.gr] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:27 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@athedsl-91412.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 16:27 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:28 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:29 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:34 -!- JayBerg [~satoshi@c-24-4-144-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: JayBerg] 16:36 -!- finkan 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Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:35 -!- wtabata [~wtabata@179.235.79.229] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:39 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-3-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:44 -!- finkan [~finkan@194-103-214-178.kund.ipswe.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:45 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:45 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17:49 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] NicolasDorier closed pull request #10947: [Wallet] Bare segwit scriptPubKey should not considered change by the wallet (master...importaddresssegwit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10947 17:59 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:02 -!- noisenode [~noisenode@p5DC47FF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:05 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:06 -!- noisenod1 [~noisenode@p5DC465C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jeffrade opened pull request #12187: [Docs] Updating benchmarkmarking.md with an updated sample output (master...benchmark_output) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12187 18:13 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-3-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:20 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 18:25 -!- CubicEarths 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has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:14 -!- laurenwoods [~laurenwoo@2605:e000:9146:e500:1ccf:d489:56ee:8e56] has left #bitcoin-core-dev ["Leaving"] 22:15 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwgfamihqsgzzzhj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:23 -!- aruns [~indistylo@119.82.105.106] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:26 -!- indistylo [~indistylo@119.82.105.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:27 -!- Alejandra75Mayer [~Alejandra@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:33 < CubicEarths> I know there are more sophisticated UTXO plans in the works, but as a quick-fix, why not have a soft-fork where for every 100th block to be valid the miner would have to include two hashes, one of all the blocks up a recent point, and another hash of the UTXO set as of that same recent point? 22:35 < gmaxwell> CubicEarths: to accomplish what goal? 22:35 < gmaxwell> If you want spv security use a blinking SPV client. 22:36 < CubicEarths> blinking? 22:37 < CubicEarths> oh, you are not using that word in a technical sense. 22:37 < gmaxwell> hah, yes. 22:41 < luke-jr> CubicEarths: how do you know the UTXO hash is legit? (hint: you'd have to verify all the prior blocks..) 22:43 < CubicEarths> The idea would be that since it would be a consensus rule, the miner and all others building on top that block of it would verify the the utxo set hashed to that value 22:43 < gmaxwell> If you want to blindly trust miners, you can do that-- thats what SPV does. 22:44 < CubicEarths> as well as all full nodes 22:44 < gmaxwell> it's much more efficient than what it sounds like you're imagining, requires no new consensus rules, and doesn't create normative behavior that requires nodes hash gigabytes of data to validate a block. 22:46 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Quit: we out here] 22:47 -!- aruns__ [~indistylo@119.82.105.106] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 22:48 < gmaxwell> which is why I opened with the question of what goal you hoped to accomplish. 22:49 < CubicEarths> Blind trust in this context wouldn't be a good thing. It seems like there is middle ground between that and 'everybody checks everything all the time'. 22:50 -!- aruns [~indistylo@119.82.105.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:50 < gmaxwell> Where you trust miners to only produce valid blocks because someone else is checking is the SPV model, it's somewhat disproved in practice thanks to spy mining, but if you want to make that assumption you already can, super duper efficiently. 22:52 < CubicEarths> I though SPV mining was only an issue that could go back a few blocks at most? 22:52 < gmaxwell> what? no. 22:53 < gmaxwell> it means miners produce and extend chanins without validating them which means that spv wallets will see false confirmations. 22:53 < CubicEarths> yes, but only a few false confirmations. They wouldn't go 20 blocks deep 22:54 < CubicEarths> or not 100 at least :) 22:54 < gmaxwell> no one is going to wait 100 blocks on confirmations unfortunately. I know of only one commercial party that was doing it, and they abandoned it. 22:55 < gmaxwell> But there is also no limit to the reorg depth that could be created by spymining, just depends on how much participation there is. 22:56 < CubicEarths> Right. If all miners were mining garbage, then the block chain would be just be junk 22:57 < gmaxwell> at least the sitaution has improved in the last few months and miners no longer think they can force invalid blocks onto the network merely by mining them. :) 22:57 < gmaxwell> For a while I worried that there would be some spymining incident with an invalid block, and we'd have miners saying "screw you, we're not going to reorg out our blocks". 22:58 < CubicEarths> yeah, I could see that 22:58 < gmaxwell> then there would be some long outage while the rest of the network forked off those miners. 22:59 < gmaxwell> but I think that the outcome is now pretty clear. 22:59 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:01 -!- gwillen [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02 < CubicEarths> So, I guess the utxo hash idea is a way of network helping nodes to get online. The network enforces rules that make it easier for new nodes to join, and in turn enforce those rules themselves. It makes it easier to have a rotating pool of nodes who validate the miners. 23:02 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:03 -!- gmaxwell [~gmaxwell@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has left #bitcoin-core-dev [] 23:03 -!- ossifrage_ [~ossifrage@unaffiliated/ossifrage] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:04 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Quit: we out here] 23:05 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:05 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:08 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:09 < luke-jr> CubicEarths: if only miners are verifying blocks, why *wouldn't* they do 100 and beyond? 23:13 -!- pramod [2be000eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.43.224.0.235] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:13 < CubicEarths> luke-jr: It wouldn't only be miners. I really don't understand the thinking behind why everyone needs to run a node for Bitcoin to be secure. It seems like a diminishing returns situation. If 1 out 100 people in the work run a node, I just can't really envision what would could wrong that would be made better by 99 out of 100 running nodes 23:14 -!- Alejandra75Mayer [~Alejandra@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:14 < luke-jr> CubicEarths: if 1% of the economy runs a node, then 99% of the economy moves on with an invalid chain and becomes dependent on the outcome of that chain 23:14 < luke-jr> putting a huge economic pressure on the 1% rejecting that chain, to change their mind and accept it 23:14 -!- harrymm_ [~harrymm@104.207.83.36] has quit [] 23:15 < luke-jr> that 1% can no longer pay the other 99% which won't accept their coins as valid 23:15 -!- aruns [~indistylo@119.82.105.106] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:16 < luke-jr> the 99% won't suddenly decide to lose out on their income because 1% says the chain is invalid 23:18 -!- aruns__ [~indistylo@119.82.105.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:19 < CubicEarths> I envision more like the 99% would back their clients with local full nodes that they trust, and they should even be able to tap into 10 or 100 full nodes that they trust (because they trust the operators), and query them simultaneously to look for signs of disagreement. Could what you are proposing work in the situation I described? 23:20 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Quit: we out here] 23:20 -!- ossifrage_ [~ossifrage@unaffiliated/ossifrage] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:20 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:22 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-3-236-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24 < luke-jr> I'm not proposing anything? 23:26 < CubicEarths> the risk you proposed 23:28 < luke-jr> if they trust node operators, they're fine until those node operators are compromised 23:28 < luke-jr> assuming a secure connection to them 23:31 -!- Sinclair6 [sinclair6@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sinclair6] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:32 < CubicEarths> well if the ability to connect to an arbitrary number of nodes and cross check their answers exits, it seems safe to assume that they wouldn't all be compromised at once 23:33 < CubicEarths> at least it hardly seems riskier than assuming your own node would be compromised at the same time (if you had one) 23:35 -!- Sinclai__ [~sinclair6@108-75-18-87.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:36 < luke-jr> CubicEarths: you can't interchange trusted nodes and arbitrary nodes.. 23:36 < CubicEarths> I meant an arbitrary number of trusted nodes 23:39 < luke-jr> but now you're getting back to a fiat trust model 23:39 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:40 < CubicEarths> • 23:40 < CubicEarths> Maybe I should sell my BTC :) 23:42 -!- Hailee67Orn [~Hailee67O@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23:43 < CubicEarths> I dunno, it seems different if: 1) There is PoW 2) Anyone can mine 3) Anyone can run a node to validate 4) I decide no to run a full node but instead connect to 100 nodes run by people and organizations that I trust 23:45 < CubicEarths> It seems like quite a small difference between running a full node and doing some advanced SPV in that context 23:46 < CubicEarths> at least in terms of reorgs and being double spent 23:50 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Quit: we out here] 23:59 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:88eb:804c:be83:d1f8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]