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06:02 < instagibbs> is there any particular reason the genesis block transaction isnt included in txindex?
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06:45 < meshcollider> instagibbs: same reason it's not spendable I guess
06:46 < instagibbs> txindex isn't consensus, but I could see the reason being "because no one would ever bother trying to spend it"
06:46 < instagibbs> just was surprised that joe schmoe can't use bitcoind to inspect it
06:46 < meshcollider> Yeah I just mean in terms of code, there's no reason I can see why we shouldn't add it
06:46 < meshcollider> It'd make sense to add it I think
06:47 < sipa> instagibbs: well from a consensus point of view the genesis block isn't really a normal block
06:47 < sipa> it's just there as a given starting point
06:48 < sipa> it could be removed from bitcoind entirely, and just treat its hash in a prevblock as an indication "this is the first block"
06:49 < Sentineo> one can not fetch the first coinbase tx from RPC then and show it the people - here is the january 3 message ... :) 
06:49 < Sentineo> which is kind of a question I get a lot - why doesn;t it work 
06:51 < instagibbs> sipa, ehhhhh it'd be just as easy to remove it from txindex in that case :)
06:51 < instagibbs> anyways, not a big deal, just surprised me
06:52 < sipa> instagibbs: my point is that it shouldn't be in the txindex, because for all intents and purposes, that transaction doesn't exist
06:52 < sipa> it's just some arbitrary data the genesis block happens to be filled with
06:53 < sipa> the system would work equally well if it wasn't even a valid transaction
06:53 < instagibbs> disagree, but that's enough NACK to leave it as a simple observation than a PR 
07:03 < sipa> instagibbs: maybe there is a bit more historical context here
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07:04 < sipa> before 0.8, there was no chainstate - the whole utxo set was defined by the txindex, and the txindex was all there was
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07:04 < sipa> no version of bitcoin ever added the genesis block to the txindex, which is the reason why the genesis coinbase output is unspendable
07:04 < instagibbs> ah, yes that is more motivated
07:05 < sipa> in 0.8, the consensus relevance of the txindex was moved to the chainstate
07:05 < BW^-> sipa: ah, so those first 1 million BTC minted by Satoshi, are unspendable?
07:05 < sipa> but as the genesis coinbase tx (intentionally or not) had never been part of the txindex, there isn't really a reason to change it
07:05 < sipa> BW^-: no, the first 50
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07:07 < sipa> instagibbs: it's been brought up so many times on SE that i wonder if gettransaction should special case it and return some special error or so :)
07:08 < instagibbs> hah     
07:08 < instagibbs> answer: yes
07:10 < BW^-> sipa: the first 50 blocks
07:10 < BW^-> ?     
07:11 < sipa> BW^-: no, we're only talking about the genesis block, which has an "output" of 50 BTC - those 50 BTC are not spendable
07:11 < BW^-> ah.     
07:15 < Sentineo> ah I always wondered why it is unspendable :) ty sipa !
07:17 < Sentineo> I beleive chainstate was created to make the utxo set more compact and maybe efficient (lookup wise)
07:17 < Sentineo> is it a correct assumption sipa ?
07:17 < sipa> yes     
07:17 < sipa> the txindex was 2 GB by the time the chainstate was 70 MB
07:18 < sipa> now the chainstate is 2 GB, i don't want to know how large the txindex would have been :)
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07:20 < Sentineo> well my index folder with txindex=1 is 15G :)
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07:20 < sipa> yes, but the post-0.8 txindex is much smaller than the one in pre-0.8 times
07:21 < Sentineo> my chainstate is 3.4G ... is it cause txindex is on?
07:21 < Sentineo> ah ok, so it would have been even bigger
07:21 < sipa> as it doesn't need to serve the function of UTXO set anymore
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07:23 < sipa> in particular, the pre-0.8 txindex had information about all spent inputs; now we only keep information per block or per tx
07:23 < sipa> (the latter when txindex is enabled)
07:24 < Sentineo> ic     
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07:55 < promag> sipa: btw
07:55 < promag> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet/wallet.cpp#L2742
07:55 < promag> if the creation fails or whatever then que key is returned to the pool
07:56 < promag> but LearnRelatedScripts will add other addresses to the wallet. Or am I wrong?
08:04 < sipa> LearnRelatedScripts never has any effect
08:04 < sipa> except for downgrading
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11:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #12250: Make CKey::Load references const (master...pr/keyload) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12250
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12:00 < jnewbery> v0.16.0 contains a change to P2SH activation, so we activate based on height rather than block time (a similar change to BIP 90 buried deployment). I have a very short BIP written up to describe the change. Do people think it's worth publishing as a BIP?
12:04 < sdaftuar> see also #11739 -- if we merge that then perhaps this is moot
12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11739 | Enforce SCRIPT_VERIFY_P2SH and SCRIPT_VERIFY_WITNESS from genesis by sdaftuar · Pull Request #11739 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:04 < instagibbs> i think BIPs are a good idea if we're changing consensus rules
12:04 < Chris_Stewart_5> jnewbery: Do you think this will be re-usable for other soft forks or is p2sh unique in the regard the activation was done by block time 
12:05 < MarcoFalke> The motivation for the consensus change was to make (test) code look cleaner. Since we have 11739 upcoming, that temporary more clean code is no longer a valid motivation for a change on the consensus level, as it comes with documentation burden of e.g. creating a bip.
12:18 < jnewbery> in some ways it's not a consensus change, since it's below the last checkpoint
12:19 < jnewbery> Chris_Stewart_5: I can imagine we may want to bury the CSV deployment at some point
12:20 < jnewbery> 11739 would remove segwit bip9 activation
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12:21 < Chris_Stewart_5> jnewbery: I say publish it -- especially if it could apply to other soft forks 
12:25 < MarcoFalke> Chris_Stewart_5: Can you elaborate? If the BIP is published, it couldn't be applied to other soft forks
12:25 < MarcoFalke> You can't really change BIPs retroactively
12:27 < Chris_Stewart_5> MarcoFalke: I was thinking about it the way that BIP9 provides process for deploying soft forks -- not a *specific* soft fork 
12:27 < Chris_Stewart_5> I.e. you could use this process to bury CSV deployment alogn with p2sh if i understand what it does correctly... 
12:28 < Chris_Stewart_5> but perhaps this is too narrow.. idk 
12:28 < MarcoFalke> I see
12:29 < MarcoFalke> If I am not mistaken, p2sh deployment is the only time based soft fork that "is left". So it wouldn't apply to others...
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12:33 < Chris_Stewart_5> either way, i think posting it to the dev mailing list at least isn't a bad 
12:33 < Chris_Stewart_5> bad idea
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12:39 < MarcoFalke> Agree, text itself looks fine to me, but I will stick to -0
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12:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #12251: initwallet: Do not translate highly technical addresstype help (master...Mf1801-walletNoTranslateInitHelp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12251
12:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #12252: Require all tests to follow naming convention (master...rename_tests_no_leeway) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12252
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13:09 < jtimon> sdaftuar: perhaps mention in your bip that this is similar to the way bip30 was activated ?
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13:14 < cncr04s> how do I setup LN on mainnet?
13:15 < cncr04s> I run mining/pool/deposit services. I would like to try to test it out
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13:22 < achow101> cncr04s: not here, try asking in #lightning-dev
13:23 < cncr04s> thanks
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13:51 < jojeyh> hey trying to setup private regtest chain locally.  running the command 'bitcoind -regtest -daemon' outputs usual phrase 'Bitcoin server starting.." but 'ps aux' returns no process running it
13:52 < jojeyh> nvm guess it was because i was also running testnet too, but this shouldn't be a problem right?
13:52 < jojeyh> i shutdown testnet and regtest worked
13:59 < jojeyh> nvm now i can run testnet and regtest at same time
13:59 < jojeyh> don't know what i did wrong
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17:42 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jimpo opened pull request #12254: BIP 158: Compact Block Filters for Light Clients (master...bip-158) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12254
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17:58 < phantomcircuit> jimpo, can you make it so the individual commits in 12254 actually work independently?
17:58 < phantomcircuit> pr's like that where the individual commits result in broken code make things like bisect less useful
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18:08 < jimpo> I thought they do. What one breaks the build?
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18:19 < phantomcircuit> jimpo, hmm yeah you're right that it doesn't actually, my mistake
18:19 < phantomcircuit> still kind of odd to define interfaces in one commit and then implement them in several others i think
18:19 < phantomcircuit> but maybe that's just me
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18:27 < jimpo> Yeah, that's just sort of what made the most sense to me as far as trying to communicate why code is happening. Basically, it's just a lot of new code and I wanted to break it up somehow.
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21:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl opened pull request #12255: Update bitcoin.service to conform to init.md (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12255
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22:11 < mryandao> whats the general advice to "clean up commit body"?
22:11 < mryandao> does it mean I just have to rebase and re-write the commit message to reflect the final changes?
22:12 < mryandao> sorry, i'm still very new to contributing.
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22:16 < gmaxwell> context?
22:17 < mryandao> gmaxwell: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12240
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22:20 < r251d> mryandao: I think "commit body" refers to the commit message at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12240/commits/acde12c2f651912fdd04e4e50638502d5de26e91
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22:22 < mryandao> basically just summarising the actual stuff i'm contributing less the changes made in all the commits i've squashed? 
22:25 < r251d> I'm not sure exactly what to change about it but I think it may just be a bit verbose. Contributing.md says this:
22:25 < r251d> > Commit messages should be verbose by default consisting of a short subject line (50 chars max), a blank line and detailed explanatory text as separate paragraph(s), unless the title alone is self-explanatory (like "Corrected typo in init.cpp") in which case a single title line is sufficient. Commit messages should be helpful to people reading your code in the future, so explain the reasoning for
22:25 < r251d>  your decisions. Further explanation here.
22:28 < gmaxwell> mryandao: Its not clear to me what you're being asked to do there. Feel free to ask.
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22:34 < Randolf> mryandao:  You're new too?  And you got Squashing working?  You're ahead of me then.  :)
22:35 < mryandao> the instructions were easy to follow. 
22:35 < mryandao> way more inituitive than git rebase --help really.
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22:39 < Randolf> I think I got rebasing working today.  Nothing showed up on GitHub.com though, so I figured it got queued or something and I'll check again later.
22:43 < mryandao> you gotta do a git push -f
22:44 < mryandao> and it should show in github.com after the push is done.
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22:46 < Randolf> I did that, it asked for my username and password, and then it finally reported that everything is up to date.
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22:49 < r251d> promag: could you please clarify your nit about commit body cleanup for mryandao at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12240 ?
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23:16 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #12257: [wallet] Use destination groups instead of coins in coin select (master...feature-addrgrouped-coinselect) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12257
23:28 < ProfMac> Is there a channel for people who want to study the code, but aren't strong developers?
23:31 < Randolf> ProfMac:  There is a #bitcoin-dev channel.
23:46 < gmaxwell> kallewoof: very cool
23:47 < gmaxwell> kallewoof: did you consider/try  having the non-avoidpartialspends mode first try to see it to see if there is a solution?  I assume everyone would prefer an avoidpartial solution if it was otherwise about as good.
23:49 < luke-jr> kallewoof: that doesn't avoid reuse, and has security issues in the event of QC (but we have enough issues there already, so not a big deal), but seems useful anyway
23:51 < gmaxwell> kallewoof: it doesn't avoid reuse, but it reduces one of its major harms.
23:51 < luke-jr> yes, hence useful anyway
23:51 < gmaxwell> right now even a small amount of reuse results in your entire wallet being common-input linked.
23:52 < luke-jr> my point was only that it isn't an "avoid address reuse" category PR as it seemed to be suggesting it was ;)
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23:58 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: we could probably do a lot wrt reuse with two small features: when you send to an address you've sent to before, put up a dialog that asks if you're making a mistake.  (we've certantly seen people mess up by double paying addresses); and put a 'reuse' icon on any transaction paying you that pays to an address which has already been paid.