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10:02 < jimpo> hmm, seems the whole block tree db could be moved to flat files since it's all read into memory on startup anyway
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11:35 < sipa> jimpo: i guess!
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13:44 < wumpus> I think the idea is to not read it all into memory at some point
13:44 < wumpus> just like with the wallet, FWIW
13:45 < wumpus> for the block index, the pointers could be handles that prompt fetching some more specific data only on demand
13:46 < wumpus> ken2812221: yes, that is funny
13:46 < wumpus> ken2812221: the argument handling code is pretty weird in some regards, now
13:47 < wumpus> I tried to document it, but I guess I failed
13:48 < wumpus> I guess I'm going to untag #14105 and #14100 from 0.17.0
13:48 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14105 | util: Report parse errors in configuration file by laanwj · Pull Request #14105 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHubAsset 1Asset 1
13:48 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14100 | doc: Change documentation for =0 for non-boolean options by laanwj · Pull Request #14100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
13:49 < wumpus> we're never going to do a release if we try to solve this first
13:53 < luke-jr> wumpus: aren't block indexes so small that it wouldn't be worth doing fetch-on-demand handles? (as opposed to fetch-on-demand map)
13:56 < wumpus> luke-jr: there is certainly some minimum state that would make no sense to fetch on deman
13:56 < wumpus> luke-jr: on the other hand, the structure per block is growing every release, I'm sure there are also things that don't make sense to read and store persistently
13:58 < wumpus> luke-jr: I just meant I don't want to commit to a flat file because of that; also for updates, that would be much harder to manage
13:59 < wumpus> having a block index database makes sense, no matter how exactly it's managed now
14:02 < luke-jr> sure
14:04 < wumpus> what is wrong with travis on master: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/builds/423430634?utm_source=email&utm_medium=notification
14:04 < wumpus> the linting stage is failing but there are no errors
14:11 < wumpus> of course it all passes perfectly locally
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14:29 < gmaxwell> luke-jr: so sizeof(CBlockIndex) is 144 bytes, so thats 78MB (and slowly growing) of memory used for little particular purpose, excluding malloc overheads (which I guess are probably at least another 16 bytes per header).  The fact that we also keep so many of them in memory means a longer start time, and constant pressure to not add things to those objects with a result of reducing 
14:29 < gmaxwell> functionality. 
14:29 < gmaxwell> so I think it would make sense to eventually not keep them in memory.
14:31 < gmaxwell> there should be no particular reason that someone couldn't run a fully functional bitcoin node using a few tens of MB of ram... though obviously not one with the lowest possible latency.
14:31 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: sure, I'm just saying, a handle wouldn't be a big improvement
14:32 < luke-jr> seems to make more sense to just create the indexx object itself on demand
14:32 < luke-jr> and not store anything in memory per-block
14:33 < gmaxwell> ah, I think I agree with that.
14:34 < gmaxwell> Well really the access to the block index could be intermediated through a caching layer, so that the policy of what is in memory vs not is hidden from the rest of the code.
14:34 < luke-jr> sure
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14:47 < wumpus> "so I think it would make sense to eventually not keep them in memory" exactly
14:48 < wumpus> I just meant we shouldn't be making any code changes in the direction of making that more difficult
14:49 < wumpus> not so much 'we should be doing that now'
14:49 < wumpus> I'd agree it's certainly not the biggest memory sink at the moent
14:52 < gmaxwell> maybe one of the least useful ones, however.
14:55 < wumpus> true
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17:11 < echeveria> is there any reason the p2p messages have checksums at all? 
17:12 < echeveria> all of the data in messages ends up being hashed regardless somewhere down the line. 
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17:23 < sipa> echeveria: there as a bug once in the message deserializer, and someone thought it was a good idea to be able to detect future things like that by adding a checksum
17:24 < sipa> this was in 0.2.x days
17:24 < sipa> early 2010 maybe
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17:36 < echeveria> kind of annoying to keep them in memory to hash them though. 
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18:26 < gmaxwell> echeveria: you don't have to, you can compute the hash incrementally.
18:26 < gmaxwell> (in fact, bitcoin core computes the hash incrementaly)
18:27 < gmaxwell> The proposed encrypted transport eliminates the checksum, but introduces a mac... but at least that does something useful (protects traffic from tampering)
18:29 < gmaxwell> (and before anyone things "but bitcoin traffic doesn't really need to be tamper protected" -- it's important to authenticate encrypted data or you can use targeted tampering to extract small amounts of data from encrypted links by tampering and observing what happens)
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18:38 < fanquake> jonasschnelli Did/do you have an Xcode setup for Core dev/debugging?
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23:35 < jonasschnelli> fanquake: yes. I have one.
23:35 < jonasschnelli> though I mostly use my QtCreator setup...
23:35 < jonasschnelli> Debugger integration with QT object inspection is great.
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--- Log closed Sun Sep 02 00:00:57 2018