--- Log opened Thu Jun 13 00:00:26 2019
--- Day changed Thu Jun 13 2019
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01:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #16201: devtools: Always use unabbreviated commit IDs in github-merge.py (master...2019_06_ghmerge_unabbrev) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16201
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01:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f792395d13aa...afab1312c5e1
01:48 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 75485ef João Barbosa: gui: Enable open wallet menu on setWalletController
01:48 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master afab131 fanquake: Merge #16118: gui: Enable open wallet menu on setWalletController
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01:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16118: gui: Enable open wallet menu on setWalletController (master...2019-05-null-walletcontroller) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16118
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02:00 < promag> fanquake: first?
02:00 < fanquake> promag yes
02:00 < promag> \o/
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02:18 < meshcollider> \o/
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02:45 < jonasschnelli> fanquake: \o/!
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03:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #16202: Refactor network message deserialization  (master...2019/06/net_refactor_1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16202
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03:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to 0.18: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/be92be5644a7...9c29bc71dc40
03:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.18 206c30f MarcoFalke: dummywallet: Reformat ignored wallet options list
03:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.18 106471d Luke Dashjr: Bugfix: dummywallet: Add -ignorepartialspends to list of ignored wallet op...
03:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.18 9c29bc7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #16189: 0.18: Backport "Add -ignorepartialspends to list of ignored ...
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03:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #16189: 0.18: Backport "Add -ignorepartialspends to list of ignored wallet options" (0.18...1906-18Backport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16189
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03:48 < wumpus> so many PRs failing travis again
03:49 < wumpus> there should be zero reason for a PR like #16188 to fail travis, it just adds a few comments
03:49 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16188 | net: Document what happens to getdata of unknown type by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #16188 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
03:50 < wumpus> it has such a long build log that I don't even know what fails
03:51 < fanquake> it'll likely be just after building zmq in depends
03:52 < wumpus> it's like travis stopped caching some of our results, forcing a rebuild
03:52 < promag> the cache is per PR?
03:53 < fanquake> wumpus here's the end of the log: https://gist.github.com/fanquake/e04e7c1e02e5e6363fd0c1e1abb20b8a
03:53 < wumpus> promag: it is, though the initial build uses the cache for the branch (at least I hope so)
03:53 < wumpus> it *used to*
03:53 < wumpus> but I'm starting to think something changed in regard to caching
03:55 < wumpus> fanquake: ahh so it's another case of "Initial build successful, but not enough time remains ..." I wish that was displayed at the top instead
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03:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to 0.17: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6cf81b01b48e...c165df198d6e
03:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.17 05fb9f7 MarcoFalke: build with -fstack-reuse=none
03:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.17 b5a4abe Pieter Wuille: Add test for GCC bug 90348
03:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.17 c165df1 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #16163: 0.17.2 backport: build with -fstack-reuse=none  and test cas...
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03:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #16163: 0.17.2 backport: build with -fstack-reuse=none  and test case (0.17...backport_stack_reuse_none_017) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16163
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04:08 < promag> MarcoFalke: thanks for the backport
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04:27 < jonasschnelli> #proposedmeetingtopic travis stability and usefulness in current state
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04:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/afab1312c5e1...431d81b61ca9
04:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 97f517d Jonas Schnelli: Fix RPC/pruneblockchain returned prune height
04:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f402012 João Barbosa: fixup: Fix prunning test
04:35 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 431d81b Jonas Schnelli: Merge #15991: Bugfix: fix pruneblockchain returned prune height
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04:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli merged pull request #15991: Bugfix: fix pruneblockchain returned prune height (master...2019/05/pruning_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15991
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04:40 < jonasschnelli> sipa, MarcoFalke: you commented on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15615 . Would appreciate closing the review by NACK/ACK/comment.
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05:12 < MarcoFalke> So why are we using tinyformat for printf, but not for fprintf et al?
05:13 < MarcoFalke> Also, it seems like we might not be using tinyformat at all, since it depends on include order what the symbol refers to, no?
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05:16 < MarcoFalke> re travis: I have deleted all caches on travis
05:16 < MarcoFalke> It can't get any worse than now
05:16 < jonasschnelli> I think we just use it for log printing,.. right?
05:17 < MarcoFalke> Yeah, why. Why not for printing to a file handle
05:17 < MarcoFalke> stdout or whatever
05:17 < jonasschnelli> Maybe due to security/stability concerns? but probably not
05:18 < wumpus> tinyformat should ideally be used for everything, but at the moment it's used for 1) formatting to strings (strprintf) 2) log formatting
05:19 < wumpus> (LogPrint / LogPrintf)
05:19 < MarcoFalke> it is also used for some printf, depending on include order
05:19 < wumpus> I strongly disagree with "we might not be using tinyformat at all", in contrast to libc printf implementations, tinyformat is type safe
05:19 < MarcoFalke> since the tinyformat header has a printf in it
05:20 < MarcoFalke> I meant "we might not be using tinyformat *accidentally* at all"
05:20 < wumpus> we had some really awful problems with platform libc implementations (esp windows), with regards to strings, locale, even formatting 64 bit integers, there's no way we're going back to that
05:20 < wumpus> ooh
05:20 < MarcoFalke> because it might depend on include order 
05:21 < wumpus> is bare 'printf' used anywhere?
05:21 < wumpus> it shouldn't really be
05:21 < jonasschnelli> I don't think we use bar printf anywhere
05:21 < jonasschnelli> (expect ctaes bench)
05:21 < MarcoFalke> oh, yeah
05:21 < MarcoFalke> But we use fprintf
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05:21 < jonasschnelli> *except
05:22 < wumpus> (it's kind of useless as stdout might be redirected to nowhere, ther's some fprintf(stderr, ) where we're sure it's before the daemonize I guess, would be OK with replacing those with something that uses tinyformat)
05:22 < wumpus> but please don't redefine fprintf for that but define a new function
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05:22 < MarcoFalke> ok, makes sense
05:23 < wumpus> it's kind of bizarre that tinyformat redefines printf
05:24 < wumpus> I think you have agood point in that
05:24 < wumpus> we definitely should avoid using that one
05:24 < jonasschnelli> "Tinyformat: A minimal type safe printf replacement"
05:24 < MarcoFalke> Yeah, I was really confused when reading through all this after I had issues with the %zu format specifier on windows
05:25 < MarcoFalke> I dig all the way to #326 :(
05:25 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes, that doesn't mean the function has to be called that :)
05:25 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/326 | Remove the IRC triggered hard last-seen check from the peer selection. by gmaxwell · Pull Request #326 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
05:25 < jonasschnelli> heh.. indeed
05:25 < MarcoFalke> Eh https://github.com/libevent/libevent/issues/326
05:25 < MarcoFalke> Which is #8730
05:25 < wumpus> yes, please don't use platform printf
05:25 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8730 | depends: Add libevent compatibility patch for windows by laanwj · Pull Request #8730 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
05:26 < MarcoFalke> Ok, thx for the input
05:26 < MarcoFalke> Lets see what I can come up with
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06:27 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #15981: Use __func__ for log messages (master...replace-all-with-func) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15981
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06:31 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] emilengler opened pull request #16204: Change Content-Type to plain text for the webroot (master...patch-emilengler) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16204
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06:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #16205: Refactor: Replace fprintf with tfm::format (master...1906-nofprintf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16205
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06:49 < instagibbs> jnewbery, what is a --debug build
06:49 < instagibbs> and how to detect :) 
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06:51 < MarcoFalke> Maybe --enable-debug?
06:51 < MarcoFalke> ./configure --enable-debug
06:52 < jnewbery> instagibbs: eg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/431d81b61ca968da2d7c25f0d56455a44cd46fed/src/init.cpp#L871
06:52 < jnewbery> #ifdef DEBUG
06:53 < instagibbs> that's set when non-release, or?
06:53 < instagibbs> --enable-debug ?
06:53 < instagibbs> oh I should have read it
06:53 < instagibbs> non-release :) 
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07:49 < BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I got it by dumping the routing table as visible from my router
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07:50 < phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, right, need a bgp session to do that
07:50 < phantomcircuit> does your table vaguely match https://iptoasn.com/
07:50 < BlueMatt> I have a bgp session
07:50 < BlueMatt> several, in fact
07:50 < phantomcircuit> yeah i know
07:52 < BlueMatt> i dunno where they pull it, but I didnt try to correlate between v4 -> RIR objects -> asns
07:52 < BlueMatt> which, I suppose, may also be a relevant approach
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08:06 < BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: the nice thing is what sipa wrote will eat bird "show route all" output and map it, so its rather easy to get others' dumps as well
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08:24 < phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, that is nice
08:25 < phantomcircuit> it's definitely better to do asn grouping than /16
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08:26 < BlueMatt> indeed
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08:42 < promag> imo #16106 is good to go
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08:42 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16106 | gui: Sort wallets in open wallet menu by promag · Pull Request #16106 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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09:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] asood123 opened pull request #16207: test: stop generating lcov coverage when functional tests fail (master...patch-15648) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16207
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10:05 < MarcoFalke> I think travis is horribly broken upstream and discards caches randomly
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10:47 < jonasschnelli> In some contexts, cache means "can randomly delete"
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10:55 < dongcarl> :-/
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11:00 < MarcoFalke> It should store them for 30days
11:00 < MarcoFalke> Mabye something else corrupts the caches or thinks they are outdated
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11:02 < jonasschnelli> meeting?
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11:04 < sipa> 1 hour from now
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11:04 < jonasschnelli> Argh. Right. Summertime.
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11:08 < MarcoFalke> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=current+time+in+reykjavik
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11:22 < nkohen> Hey all, I've implemented golomb coded sets as mentioned in BIP 158 and I'm currently trying to implement serialization of blocks into block filters (from the same BIP) and I'm looking over how core does this and it appears to me that entire output scripts are being put in blocks and not just the data pushed on the stack as specified in BIP 158. Is this true?
11:23 < nkohen> https://github.com/jimpo/bitcoin/blob/254c85b68794ada713dbdae415db72adf5fcbaf3/src/blockfilter.cpp#L203
11:25 < sipa> nkohen: from BIP158:
11:25 < sipa> > The scriptPubKey of each output, aside from all OP_RETURN output
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11:26 < phantomcircuit> nkohen, the same data is probably in the filter more than once in different forms
11:26 < sipa> phantomcircuit: no
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11:26 < sipa> it's the scriptPubKeys of all outputs in the block, and the scriptPubKeys of all outputs spent by the block
11:27 < jonasschnelli> nkohen: core has two filter types
11:27 < sipa> jonasschnelli: wut?
11:27 < sipa> no it doesn't
11:28 < jonasschnelli> no... 
11:28 < jonasschnelli> :(
11:28 < jonasschnelli> only basic is imlemented
11:28 < jonasschnelli> I though since we had that option the extended was also there... 
11:28 < sipa> the extended one was dropped from the bip
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11:32 < jonasschnelli> nkohen: maybe lookup the function "BasicFilterElements" in blockfiler.cpp
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11:34 < nkohen> jonasschnelli: that is the function I've linked to, and I'm not super fluent in c++ might be the issue but it looks like we call `elements.emplace(script.begin(), script.end());` where script is a CScript, and unless that somehow skips the opcodes and such which aren't data it looks like they get added?
11:35 < sipa> nkohen: no
11:35 < sipa> the spec says the entire scriptPubKey is added to the filter and nothing else
11:36 < jonasschnelli> nkohen: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0158.mediawiki#contents
11:36 < nkohen> ah I see, I've also been referencing the btcd implementation: https://github.com/Roasbeef/btcutil/blob/gcs/gcs/builder/builder.go#L186
11:36 < nkohen> and they seem to only take `PushedData`
11:38 < jonasschnelli> nkohen: that is roasbeef's branch? Maybe old?
11:38 < nkohen> joansschnelli: good point, I'll check
11:39 < jonasschnelli> nkohen: I guess you should look in: https://github.com/btcsuite/btcutil/blob/master/gcs/builder/builder.go#L299
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11:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #16208: Consume CReserveKey on successful CreateTransaction (master...createtransaction_keepkey) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16208
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11:40 < nkohen> yup, that has it fixed, I now understand why nothing has been working, thanks sipa and jonasschnelli!
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11:54 < nkohen> luke-jr: I changed the link to the reference implementation of GCS which was out of date - https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/788
12:00 < achow101> meeting?
12:00 < instagibbs> hello
12:00 < jnewbery> hi
12:00 < sipa> meeting!
12:00 < fanquake> Hi
12:00 < jonasschnelli> hi
12:01 < promag> hi
12:01 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:01 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 13 19:01:22 2019 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:01 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:01 < cfields> hi
12:01 < dongcarl> hi (sort of)
12:01 < achow101> hi
12:01 < meshcollider> hi 
12:01 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral
12:02 < phantomcircuit> hi
12:02 < wumpus> we have three topics in https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
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12:02 < moneyball> hi
12:02 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:02 < phantomcircuit> sipa, oh it's the bloom filters that add other stuff
12:03 < sipa> topic suggestion: ASN database shipped with bitcoind?
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12:03 < wumpus> also high priority for review but I didn't look at that at all this week due to coredev and the conference tbh
12:03 < phantomcircuit> sipa, i think yes, it's certainly better than assuming /16 are distinct entities
12:03 < jb55> sipa: can you go over the benefit of that for those who might be out of the loop
12:03  * jb55 like this guy
12:03 < wumpus> #topic High priority for review
12:04 < sipa> phantomcircuit, jb55: i'm suggesting a topic; we'll discuss it when the topic comes up
12:04 < Chris_Stewart_5> hello
12:04 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 there's four things on there now
12:04 < wumpus> +2 brainstorming topics
12:05 < wumpus> anything to add/remove for this week ?
12:05 < MarcoFalke> I'd like to add #14193
12:05 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14193 | validation: Add missing mempool locks by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #14193 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:05 < sipa> not sure to what extent we decided that the high priority list should have an implicit "basic concept ack" because discussed in the meeting; but to the extent that it is, i think the list entries are great :)
12:06 < MarcoFalke> good point
12:06 < MarcoFalke> I'd like to add 14193 as "bugfix"
12:06 < jtimon> review beg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8994#issuecomment-501826862
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12:06 < wumpus> missing locks sounds pretty concept ackable
12:07 < MarcoFalke> jtimon: are you adding that as "Chasing Concept ACK"?
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12:07 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: Yeah, it has been open for months and hasn't received any attention
12:07 < fanquake> dongcarl do you have any build related blockers? Guix or otherwise.
12:07 < sipa> concept ack
12:08 < meshcollider> concept ack for adding Marco's PR
12:08 < dongcarl> fanquake: looking
12:08 < sipa> agree on jtimon
12:08 < sipa> agree on jtimon's pr as chasing concept ack
12:08 < jnewbery> I'd like #16060 on there. I have a couple of review comments from last week to address. It's blocking some work that BlueMatt is doing on reducing cs_main usage
12:08 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16060 | Bury bip9 deployments by jnewbery · Pull Request #16060 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:09 < wumpus> why is the github 'add cards' search so broken, every time I search for a number it shows 20 different ones
12:09 < jonasschnelli> yes. that's so broken
12:09 < jnewbery> wumpus: I think it's easier to add a PR to a project from within the PR itself
12:09 < dongcarl> fanquake: no blockers
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12:10 < fanquake> Yes from the sidebar in a PR is usually easy.
12:10 < jtimon> MarcoFalke: yeah, I mean, it got concept acks before, but I have been not rebasing it for 6 months or so
12:10 < fanquake> dongcarl ok
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12:11 < wumpus> jnewbery: good point
12:11 < jtimon> I think 16060 could be done before or after and I think the result will be the same
12:11 < jb55> jnewbery jtimon: testchains pr would be good for review club?
12:12 < fanquake> I’m no more High Priority, should we discuss first proposed topic? EOL dates?
12:12 < jtimon> jb55: sure, why not?
12:13 < wumpus> #topic Update EOL dates (MarcoFalke)
12:13 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/659#issuecomment-499884131
12:13 < instagibbs> how do I read those columns in isolation?
12:13 < kanzure> hi
12:14 < MarcoFalke> Basically I am removing historical EOL dates and update others
12:14 < cfields> Would it be possible to pull these values from SECURITY.md, rather than keeping them in sync?
12:14 < achow101> is it necessary to remove historical ones?
12:14 < wumpus> LGTM
12:14 < MarcoFalke> achow101: They are not representative and have been made up 
12:14 < wumpus> it defeinitely cleans up a lot
12:15 < MarcoFalke> The only information you need is that they are surely eol today
12:15 < wumpus> yes
12:15 < meshcollider> Is it sensible to add an EOL date for 0.17 before the maintainance end date has even been announced
12:15 < wumpus> for the rest there's git history I guess…
12:16 < wumpus> but come on, 0.8.x
12:16 < MarcoFalke> meshcollider: good point
12:16 < wumpus> meshcollider:probably not
12:16 < MarcoFalke> I think given that we have a fixed release schedule, it should be fine
12:16 < cfields> wumpus: segwit 0.8.x when? :p
12:16 < achow101> perhaps put the scheduled 0.19 release date?
12:16 < wumpus> things drift a few months here and there though
12:16 < wumpus> cfields:lol
12:16 < achow101> (for 0.17 maintenance end)
12:17 < MarcoFalke> happy to remove the 0.17 EOL, though
12:18 < instagibbs> (took me way too long to figure out the table headers: https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#schedule )
12:18 < meshcollider> the EOL date for 0.16 seems fine though, just under 1 year was the rule I used last time I updated it 
12:18 < cfields> Again, though, can we somehow automatically keep this in sync with SECURITY.md? I'm afraid of them drifting apart.
12:18 < wumpus> yes
12:19 < fanquake> We could just make security.md the place where they live, and they get manually/automatically pulled out of their for website updates?
12:19 < meshcollider> +1
12:19 < wumpus> so the information in security.md is only for security fixes, not general maintenance
12:19 < wumpus> it should list the versions that are not entirely EOL I guess
12:20 < cfields> fanquake: +1
12:20 < meshcollider> Kinda makes more sense to have it in the repo though than on a separate website?
12:20 < wumpus> maybe ...
12:20 < wumpus> I'm usually not in favor of importing everything into the repo
12:21 < achow101> it should be possible to have SECURITY.md fetched and parsed during the build for the website. I know bitcoin.org does something similar to generate the contributors page
12:21 < nehan> fwiw: the motivation for SECURITY.md was in part because people who wanted to report things did not know about bitcoincore.org
12:21 < wumpus> like it's fiiine to maintain different things in different places, it doesn't all have to go through the same bottleneck you know
12:21 < wumpus> nehan: yes, for reporting it makes perfect sense
12:21 < sipa> i think the SECURITY.md living in the repo itself is weird, as it's not tied to the specific source tree it lives in (this is also true for release notes etc)
12:21 < MarcoFalke> Add it to "release-process.md"? *ducks
12:21 < meshcollider> Fair enough actually yeah
12:22 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Release notes should be shipped, so at least during build you'd have to fetch them
12:22 < wumpus> sipa: I think the reporting emails and gpg keys are
12:22 < cfields> sipa: elaborate?
12:22 < wumpus> sipa: as for the schedule, I guess I'd somewhat agree
12:23 < sipa> cfields: which versions are still under maintenance, eg
12:23 < wumpus> but that wasn't the main point of security.md, it was to let people know where to report critical security issues
12:23 < fanquake> security.md is also being removed from any branch that isn’t master right.
12:23 < sipa> if someone randomly clones the repo, leaves their copy untouched for years... someone stumbles upon it (like nkohen's with roasbeef's repo above ^), and sees the version they think they
12:23 < wumpus> and I guess what releases to report them for ? like, if you find a problem with 0.8 now it's probably not useful to report it
12:23 < MarcoFalke> So lets remove the eol dates from there again?
12:23 < sipa> if someone randomly clones the repo, leaves their copy untouched for years... someone stumbles upon it (like nkohen's with roasbeef's repo above ^), and sees the version they think they're working with is maintained
12:24 < cfields> wumpus: fair enough.
12:24 < sipa> i don't know if this confusion doesn't weigh up to having the information in a well-visible location
12:24 < cfields> MarcoFalke: I'd +1 that as well. I just don't like the idea of having them maintained separately in two places.
12:24 < wumpus> sipa: yes
12:24 < wumpus> ok, let's remove the dates from security.md
12:25 < MarcoFalke> #action remove the dates from security.md
12:25 < sipa> we could have a link in security.md to the authoritative place where that information is maintained
12:25 < instagibbs> ack
12:25 < meshcollider> +1
12:25 < fanquake> If that’s done. Second proposed topic is where to have the next Core Dev meetup.
12:25 < cfields> sipa: +1
12:25 < moneyball> hi
12:25 < MarcoFalke> ok,next topic
12:25 < wumpus> #topic when/where should we have next CoreDev? (moneyball)
12:26 < moneyball> Thanks for those that attended CoreDev. By all accounts I think it was a success!
12:26 < wumpus> agree!
12:26 < MarcoFalke> Once per release seems fine to me
12:26 < moneyball> We had 18 responses to the feedback survey. The summary is "don't change anything." 72% want to keep reviewing/merging unstructured. 93% liked the scheduled talks. 83% think 3 days is the optimal duration. And majority of people like the # attendees and the mix.
12:26 < meshcollider> Definitely, thank you \i/
12:26 < cfields> moneyball: thanks for organizing!
12:26 < moneyball> If anyone has other feedback please either fill out the form or let schmidty or me know.
12:26 < instagibbs> I definitely think it was the best so far
12:26 < jonasschnelli> Yeah. Thanks moneyball!
12:26 < sipa> indeed!
12:26 < fanquake> \o/
12:27 < sipa> also congrats on getting Gary fired
12:27 < moneyball> thx :)
12:27 < moneyball> So I started thinking about the next CoreDev already! Aiming for 6-9 months from now which means December to March. Considerations include, most importantly, what % of active Core devs can attend, and after that, minimizing aggregate travel time/timezone shift/cost of travel, exploring new locations, winter weather, ease of organizing (eg piggyback off of conferences or have local Core devs to help)
12:27 < jonasschnelli> indeed. Congratz moneyball
12:27 < MarcoFalke> Who is gary?
12:27 < cfields> moneyball: since there's typically a large turnout for Financial Crypto, maybe we could piggyback there?
12:27 < cfields> It's usually within that window.
12:27 < wumpus> not December please :)
12:28 < moneyball> Initial candidates include SF, Austin, NYC, Uruguay mid-December (La Bitconf), and Australia (possible Feb 2020 Bitcoin conf). If anyone has other candidate dates/locations please let me know! I'll likely send a survey around (sorry for all the surveys but it is really helpful!) allowing Core devs to rank candidate locations.
12:28 < instagibbs> internet kinda really sucks there cfields IIRC
12:28 < jonasschnelli> We haven't had a CoreDev in Hawaii... 
12:28 < nehan> moneyball: also MIT Bitcoin Expo
12:28 < fanquake> Marco A fake SquareCrypto intern.
12:28 < MarcoFalke> Ah, thx. I uninstalled twitter
12:29 < moneyball> nehan i will add that to the list!
12:29 < instagibbs> Holiday season is a prob a no-go, as wumpus said.
12:29 < sipa> cfields: i'd personally like a coredev colocated with FC, but i'm not sure it's that accessible for everyone (especially people who don't have company funding for travel)
12:29 < jnewbery> financial crypto is 5 days. piggybacking would make a very long trip for people
12:29 < cfields> sipa: good point.
12:29 < achow101> moneyball: there's also advancing bitcoin in london in feb
12:30 < instagibbs> co-located to another less-academic conference also has the benefits of people can submit talks/run workshops and piggyback that
12:30 < jonasschnelli> coredev.tech does fund travel expenses of those not receiving support from employers 
12:30 < sipa> about Boston: not everyone can enter (or likes to enter) the US
12:30 < fanquake> I’d probably almost strike Aus of the list for Dec - Feb. Too hot.
12:31 < sipa> fanquake: i was very confused for a minute and thought you were talking about austin
12:31 < instagibbs> dropbears don't like the heat though
12:31 < jnewbery> fanquake: maybe in Binnu. There are places that aren't quite as hot
12:31 < fanquake> Yes but neither do Core Devs I’d assume.
12:32 < fanquake> jnewbery if your happy with 40C days, go ahead. We’ll have Core dev on the beach.
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12:32 < meshcollider> NZ is a bit more mild than aus, come over here instead ;)
12:32 < jnewbery> I meant maybe Binnu was too hot and we could have it somewhere else
12:32 < wumpus> hehe
12:33 < fanquake> ah right
12:33  * sipa would suggest Iceland (nicely in the middle between EU and US), but only if in summer :)
12:33 < moneyball> regarding not wanting to enter the US, i would like to better understand how big of an issue this is. if those affected are comfortable, please reach out to me and let me know so it is taken into account
12:33 < wumpus> Iceland :D
12:33 < jonasschnelli> ack Iceland
12:33 < instagibbs> there are >=2 people that came to last coredev that can't come generally speaking.
12:33 < moneyball> yeah the next next CoreDev is already decided...summer 2020 iceland :) 
12:33 < nehan> i was also going to suggest iceland
12:34 < instagibbs> It should be over the next halving tbh :)
12:35 < fanquake> moneyball I think this could be left for suggestions/comments. Anything else you wanted to bring up? Otherwise final proposed topic is Travis instability.
12:35 < moneyball> all good thanks for the input everyone
12:35 < meshcollider> Is there a way to provide input that's easier for you? Like a survey of our preferred location and timing or something?
12:36 < cfields> moneyball: fyi, the last thing done at FC is voting on the next location. Which is cool because the people there are obviously a great sample.
12:36 < cfields> Just throwing that out there because I think it's neat :)
12:36 < sipa> it's just an informative vote though; the actual decision is made much later
12:36 < cfields> right, that.
12:36 < wumpus> heh it doesn't include the people that weren't able to come
12:36 < meshcollider> Confirmation bias lol
12:37 < sipa> self-echochambering is best echochambering
12:37 < wumpus> #topic Travis stability and usefulness in current state (jonasschnelli)
12:37 < wumpus> travis is failing sooo much on PRs now
12:37 < moneyball> i'll do a survey ranking locations
12:37 < jonasschnelli> We probably discussed that already to a certain level. But somehow I think we should have a plan how to get travis back on track
12:38 < jonasschnelli> Right now on an avg of 3-4 tries travis will succeed.
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12:38 < wumpus> it's absurd that even PRs that change like 3 comment lines fail
12:38 < cfields> jonasschnelli: by travis do you mean Travis the service? Or our c-i checks in general?
12:38 < wumpus> I know it's bad but I'm already starting to effectively ignore it
12:38 < jonasschnelli> It can't be that we just need to re-trigger builds all over... this makes the value of CI partially disappearing
12:39 < fanquake> cfields: it seems like lots of invalide caches, casting constant depends rebuilds? At least what I’ve seen.
12:39 < wumpus> it used to be 'oh this PR fails, it needs more work by the author' but it's never the author's fault !
12:39 < fanquake> *invalid, *causing
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12:39 < wumpus> so I run the tests locally, which is incomplete but at least reliable ...
12:39 < achow101> can drahtbot be made to retrigger travis on certain kinds of errors?
12:39 < jonasschnelli> I think we should have a strategy how to escape this mess...
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12:39 < achow101> otherwise maybe we should consider using a different CI
12:40 < jonasschnelli> eventually... but that is a lot of work
12:40 < fanquake> The depends builds then obviously take up all the build time, and the build dies.
12:40 < wumpus> yes, we need something better
12:40 < cfields> Maybe we should finally consider decoupling the depends builds?
12:40 < wumpus> another CI would be ok with me
12:40 < jb55> circle-ci ?
12:40 < sipa> are there any self-hostable CI systems that integrate with github?
12:40 < cfields> (afaik I've been the one arguing for keeping depends compiles included in the past, but things have changed...)
12:41 < wumpus> I liked travis a lot when it worked but this is just not doable anymore
12:41 < jonasschnelli> I think it would be worth if willing people can propose a researched alternative on next meeting
12:41 < wumpus> cfields: you mean, using distro deps instead of depends?
12:41 < fanquake> I think those would be interesting to review.
12:41 < jonasschnelli> if we have volunteers...
12:41 < wumpus> cfields: too bad travis has such old versions
12:41 < meshcollider> sipa: Jenkins is self hostable I think
12:41 < wumpus> it's still trusty isn't it?
12:42 < cfields> wumpus: I mean automating depends builds separately, and having bitcoind builds fetch pre-built depends binaries.
12:42 < wumpus> cfields: ohh makes sense
12:42 < wumpus> cfields: then only do depends rebuilds, if depends change
12:42 < fanquake> FYI if anyone is unaware, we already have a circle CI confit in the repo, and Marco runs its against his own repo I’m pretty sure. Has a PR open for confit updates atm.
12:42 < cfields> as that seems to be the biggest mess?
12:42 < jonasschnelli> github lists 24 CI tools: https://github.com/marketplace/category/continuous-integration
12:42 < wumpus> cfields: it's certainly speed up things a lot
12:42 < wumpus> it'd*
12:42 < wumpus> especially the qt build in depends takes a long time, the rest is pretty fast
12:43 < cfields> I can work on that if it sounds interesting?
12:43 < cfields> It would introduce some new sync issues...
12:43 < cfields> But may be better than the status quo.
12:43 < wumpus> protobuf is a few seconds, even boost is, as we've stripped it down a lot
12:43 < wumpus> but qt....
12:43 < fanquake> cfields: would the pre built stuff live on bitcoincore.org ?
12:43 < cfields> I think it probably takes longer to gzip boost than to build it :(
12:43 < wumpus> yes
12:43 < sipa> cfields: lol
12:44 < wumpus> I think so too hehe
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12:44 < wumpus> so it *seems* that travis caching is not working anymore
12:44 < wumpus> it rebuilds things unnecessarily a lot
12:44 < cfields> fanquake: I guess so?
12:44 < jonasschnelli> Maybe Google Cloud Builds could be something? Supported by Github?
12:44 < cfields> wumpus: the problem would be when you need a new dependency for your core change.
12:44 < cfields> Might have to split that up logically and wait a day for sync.
12:44 < wumpus> it shouldn't need to rebuild the depends on a PR that changes three comment lines, if the branch has the same version of depends
12:45 < cfields> s/new/modified/
12:45 < fanquake> I’m just slightly worried about the potential lag in updates. Especially as a lot of build related work is happening atm.
12:45 < instagibbs> could there be a "no really, build depends" option somehow?
12:45 < cfields> fanquake: that's probably a good bit of what's making the build times worse, though.
12:46 < wumpus> anything is better than having travis fail on every pr
12:46 < cfields> Any touch to depends will mean that tons of PRs start rebuilding everything.
12:46 < fanquake> cfields: true
12:46 < wumpus> cfields: ohh of course
12:46 < wumpus> would make sense to decouple it
12:47 < cfields> I'll take a look at that in parallel to the discussion about other services.
12:47 < wumpus> thanks
12:47 < jonasschnelli> Would asking the Travis guys be an option (explain them our situation)?
12:47 < jonasschnelli> I guess its mostly about execution time limits
12:47 < cfields> I'm also not opposed to self-hosted as I was before. The landscape has changed. We have lots more volunteers now :)
12:48 < fanquake> Does that mean your volunteering :p
12:48 < cfields> fanquake: nobody would want that :p
12:48 < wumpus> I used to be oppposed to self-hosted, but if hosted CIs are this bad, anything is better :p
12:48 < fanquake> Need to use the big new desktop for something hah.
12:48 < jonasschnelli> Travis would still be fine if we add self-hosted Jenkins... if we strip the depends build on the travis side
12:48 < jb55> #bitcoin-builds would be a good place to coordinate build system/ops stuff
12:49 < instagibbs> this channel is really not that busy...
12:49 < wumpus> hehe I'm still sceptical about the channel split too, though it's cosy there
12:49 < jb55> yeah just mentioning it since it's already there
12:50 < fanquake> So conclusion is some options might be presented at the next meeting? There are no more proposed topics left.
12:50 < cfields> * instagibbs has been banned from #bitcoin-builds
12:50 < instagibbs> psh like I was ever going there
12:50 < wumpus> hehe
12:50 < fanquake> sipa did you want to discuss the ASN stuff?
12:50 < sipa> sure
12:50 < sipa> though it's probably better if BlueMatt is here
12:51 < wumpus> oh sorry forgot about sipa's topic a bit
12:51 < fanquake> Can someone at chaincode tap Matt on the shoulder. jamesob ?
12:51 < wumpus> oh in that case let's add it to proposed topics for next week, and hope BlueMatt is there then
12:52 < sipa> all right
12:53 < wumpus> thanks everyeone
12:53 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:53 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 13 19:53:17 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:53 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-06-13-19.01.html
12:53 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-06-13-19.01.txt
12:53 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-06-13-19.01.log.html
12:53 < fanquake> Productive.
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12:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs closed pull request #15796: CReserveKey should not allow passive key re-use, debug assert in destructor (master...burn_reserve) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15796
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12:57 < MarcoFalke> Yeah sorry for missing the last topic
12:57 < MarcoFalke> But it seems travis caches are broken in some way
12:58 < MarcoFalke> Still investigating ...
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13:25 < fanquake> #proposedmeetingtopic Requiring 2FA for bitcoin orgs on GH. This was discussed a little at Core dev, and we got 4-5 members to turn 2FA on.
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13:47 < jamesob> fanquake: sorry, was afk. will tap matt next I see him
13:55 < dongcarl> fanquake: Probably 2FA but no SMS recovery?
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14:01 < hebasto> SMS recovery seems to be a great security issue
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14:06 < fanquake> dongcarl hebasto correct. kanzure might have some thoughts to share on that.
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14:14 < phantomcircuit> dongcarl, there's no way to configure github organizations to require 2fa but not sms
14:14 < dongcarl> phantomcircuit: :-/
14:16 < phantomcircuit> dongcarl, and yes sms is basically useless
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14:34 < wumpus> huh I definitely set up 2FA but not SMS recovery on my github
14:34 < wumpus> that was a long time ago though, maybe it changed
14:37 < kanzure> oh, yeah, we should enforce that users can't turn SMS recovery back on
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14:44 < meshcollider> It's possible to have 2FA without SMS but he means there's no way to enforce it, from an organization setting
14:44 < meshcollider> GitHub thinks 2FA is 2FA 
14:45 < meshcollider> We could also discuss removing some inactive members from the org which was briefly brought up in discussion too
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14:53 < phantomcircuit> achow101, can we not use acronyms for class names
14:54 < phantomcircuit> it makes it much more confusing for people who aren't looking at the code everyday
14:54 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, yes you can set that up on your personal account, but an organization cannot enforce it
14:55 < achow101> phantomcircuit: where?
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14:57 < phantomcircuit> achow101, the wallet class stuff
14:58 < phantomcircuit> SPKManager
14:58 < phantomcircuit> I know it's longer to type and that's kind of annoying without autocomplete, but it's definitely more confusing
14:59 < phantomcircuit> maybe people disagree with me, but that's what i find looking at stuff i haven't looked at in a while
15:20 < dongcarl> Would like a bit of feedback on changing `nMaxIPs`: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16070#issuecomment-501898990
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15:56 < meshcollider> ScriptPubkeyManager isn't that long I guess
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17:51 < kallewoof> fanquake wumpus: mind adding #13756 to the list of priority PR's?
17:51 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13756 | wallet: "avoid_reuse" wallet flag for improved privacy by kallewoof · Pull Request #13756 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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18:45 < meshcollider> kallewoof: done :)
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19:37 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dooglus opened pull request #16210: Add 2nd arg to signrawtransactionwithkey examples (master...patch-7) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16210
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19:43 < kallewoof> meshcollider: thanks!
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22:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/431d81b61ca9...7524376a81a1
22:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 067fba5 Wladimir J. van der Laan: devtools: Always use unabbreviated commit IDs in github-merge.py
22:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7524376 fanquake: Merge #16201: devtools: Always use unabbreviated commit IDs in github-merg...
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22:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16201: devtools: Always use unabbreviated commit IDs in github-merge.py (master...2019_06_ghmerge_unabbrev) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16201
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23:35 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #16212: addrdb: Remove temporary files created in SerializeFileDB. Fixes non-determinism in unit tests. (master...SerializeFileDB-non-determinism) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16212
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 14 00:00:41 2019