--- Log opened Thu Sep 19 00:00:15 2019
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01:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #16914: Update homebrew instruction for doxygen (master...2019/09/doxygen-homebrew) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16914
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01:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #16915: doc: Document MemPoolAccept::Finalize(...) precondition (master...clarify-mempoolaccept-finalize-assumptions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16915
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03:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] BlockMechanic opened pull request #16916: Android build (master...android-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16916
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04:06 < wumpus> achow101: will have a look
04:08 < wumpus> achow101: looks like it's already been restored? in any case, if people start abusing it, we'll unfortunately have to limit access
04:11 < wumpus> wouldn't lose *that* much by restricting wiki acceess to people invited to the org, as it's mostly those people that edit the release notes drafts
04:11 < wumpus> wiki write access
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05:07 < pinheadmz_> Quick Q: Do signatures in a multisig scriptSig/witness have to have the same SIGHASH flags?
05:10 < luke-jr> arr, that thay don't; less than 100% sure about ye CHECKMULTISIG opcodes, but ye can always use a sequence of CHECKSIGs
05:10 < luke-jr> something like https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0019.mediawiki
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05:15 < pinheadmz_> <searches interent for meaning of "ARR" acronym> -- oh, its talk like a pirate day. of course. Blimey!
05:16 < luke-jr> XD
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05:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fridokus opened pull request #16917: Test: Move common function assert_approx() into util.py (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16917
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07:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9bf5768dd628...7d4bc60f1fee
07:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f5809d5 James O'Beirne: doc: fix CChainState::ActivateBestChain doc
07:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bcf73d3 James O'Beirne: refactoring: move LoadChainTip to CChainState method
07:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3cf3673 James O'Beirne: refactoring: move ReplayBlocks under CChainState
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07:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #16743: refactor: move LoadChainTip/RelayBlocks under CChainState (master...2019-08-au-chainstate-moves) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16743
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08:52 < jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-detached-sigs/pull/29 (0.17.2rc2 osx sigs)
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09:07 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #16918: test: Make PORT_MIN in test runner configurable (master...1909-testPortMinConf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16918
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10:52 < cfields> gitian builders: detached sigs for 0.17.2rc2 are up.
10:53 < cfields> Also, if anyone has tried to ping me here, my ircd was down for a few days. All good now.
10:57 < luke-jr> do we have any indication of 0.17 rcs being actually tested? :x
10:57 < wumpus> cfields: good to know, and welcome back!
10:57 < wumpus> luke-jr: we might get bug reports for it
10:58 < wumpus> but no, haven't seen any yet, though maybe people are waiting for binaries
10:58 < cfields> luke-jr: I tested signing rc1 and found a bug :p
10:58 < luke-jr> XD
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10:59 < wumpus> as people are doing gitian builds there must be *some* interest
11:00 < luke-jr> I'm not sure that follows
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11:00 < luke-jr> gitian builders are likely running latest
11:00 < wumpus> some run multiple versions
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12:00 < warren> here
12:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:00 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 19 19:00:10 2019 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:00 < jonasschnelli> hi
12:00 < jonatack> hi
12:00 < instagibbs> hi
12:00 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral
12:00 < warren> diegobz and glezos are here from Transifex
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12:00 < achow101> hi
12:00 < glezos> hi all :)
12:00 < moneyball> Hi
12:00 < luke-jr> I'm finally able to make it :P
12:00 < wumpus> welcome diegobz and glezos
12:01 < fanquake> hi
12:01 < warren> hi
12:01 < sipa> hi
12:01 < wumpus> proposed topics for today are: 1) making better use of transifex 2 ) what to do with change output creation with bech32 (instagibbs)  3) android GUI (fanquake)
12:01 < luke-jr> should we start with Transifex topic?
12:01 < wumpus> yes
12:02 < wumpus> #topic Making better use of transifex
12:02 < warren> glezos: diegobz: you had a few points of advice?
12:03 < glezos> Happy to be able to help all and answer any Qs. Some recommendations for better use of Transifex is to develop a Glossary to improve consistency. Also, to make sure that the existing Translation Memory (past translations) are ones of good quality.
12:03 < wumpus> so I've only recently gained admin of the transifex org and there's a whole lot of new options but haven't been able to do much yet
12:03 < glezos> Finally, as admins, you can look at the "Translation Checks" section in the Org Settings, where Transifex can auto-check for mistakes by translators which an break the build process (e.g. broke a variable)
12:04 < wumpus> glezos: thanks, is that glassary something we can configure on transifex itself, or is it something external?
12:04 < glezos> in Transifex, it's part of the org itself, and available to everyone in the org
12:04 < luke-jr> ah, so it can notice a %s vs %1 mismatch?
12:04 < luke-jr> or "% 1"
12:04 < glezos> yes.
12:04 < wumpus> oh that'd be useful, we have a script right now to check that, but having it integrated with instant feedback would be much better
12:05 < glezos> There is a whole section on Translation Quality in the documentation site with screenshots and examples: https://docs.transifex.com/
12:05 < luke-jr> yeah, the script can only discard the translation entirely
12:05 < glezos> @wumpus ideally you want to the checks to happen during translation so they get fixed right away. You can configure each translation check to raise a warning (allows translation save) or an error (blocks save)
12:06 < wumpus> so this glossary is something created by the org, and contains important words for the domain of the application (in this case, things such as block, transaction, wallet, etc)
12:06 < wumpus> glezos: good to know
12:06 < luke-jr> glezos: is it likely to be a problem that we have mixed placeholder styles?
12:07 < glezos> Yes. And you can have multiple glossaries (for each project, for example, if you have multiple projects) or share the same glossary across projects (all configurable on the org level)
12:07 < luke-jr> I think right now we have multiple "projects" for each branch?
12:07 < achow101> ba
12:07 < achow101> oops
12:07 < wumpus> we have one project, multiple resources
12:07 < luke-jr> ah
12:08 < luke-jr> is it possible to add translations marked as "incomplete" until a real translator can get to it? sometimes strings change subtly and I can kind of guess a change to the prior translation, but would want a real translator to provide a new one eventually
12:09 < wumpus> luke-jr: glezos: yes so some  messages have %1 %2 ... style, some have %s style, what is important is that it's consistent within a message
12:09 < luke-jr> and sometimes if we simply append a parenthesis to a string "a (b)" for example, we could leave "a" translated and add " (b)" in English as an incomplete message
12:10 < glezos> luke-jr, for something like that, we have a step called "Review". Empty → Translated → Reviewed. This way, you can choose, for example, to use the Transifex Client to only pull reviewed translations
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12:10 < wumpus> once we get a lot more review going on, that'd make sense
12:10 < luke-jr> glezos: so no stage between empty and translated? or a way to provide a string with "empty" status?
12:11 < warren> we need to establish per-language teams with known reliable team leaders
12:11 < luke-jr> "<german text> (<english text>)" needs more than mere review
12:11 < kanzure> hi
12:11 < glezos> luke-jr no in-between stage, no
12:11 < wumpus> warren: might make sense to do a notification on transifex to ask for people to come foreard
12:12 < warren> If they were active in past years it's a good sign maybe they should be a leader.
12:12 < wumpus> yes, has anyone been keeping track though?
12:12 < warren> dunno, I would assume transifex has the data of who did what
12:12 < luke-jr> does Transifex even keep records of who did what?
12:12 < wumpus> yes they do
12:13 < wumpus> there's information on a per-message level at least, who translated it
12:13 < glezos> wumpus you can do that using the Discussions and Announcements features, which notifies all teams. https://www.transifex.com/bitcoinorg/teams/10848/discussions/ https://www.transifex.com/bitcoinorg/bitcoinorg/announcements/
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12:14 < glezos> wumpus correct. Also, there is a Reports feature at the top, which you can dig out historical activity information.
12:14 < wumpus> glezos: nice!
12:14 < glezos> (come to think about it, I think the Reports are not available in the open source plan...)
12:14 < warren> glezos: (note this is "bitcoin", "bitcoin.org" is separate)
12:15 < glezos> oops, thank you warren.
12:15 < glezos> sorry about that.
12:16 < wumpus> ok, anyone with further questions about transifex? this is the time
12:17 < promag> wumpus: topics += qml (sorry for the interruption)
12:17 < glezos> We have a Community site for any async questions, https://community.transifex.com
12:17 < warren> glezos: can you show examples of what the reports look like? 
12:17 < luke-jr> glezos: is it possible to get the raw historical author data via CLI?
12:17 < glezos> warren: yes, https://docs.transifex.com/tracking/reports
12:18 < glezos> luke-jr no, but reports can be exported as a CSV from the web app
12:18 < luke-jr> but not if we don't have access to reports ;)
12:19 < luke-jr> re [19:14:38] <glezos> (come to think about it, I think the Reports are not available in the open source plan…)
12:19 < glezos> indeed. ;)
12:20 < luke-jr> (and if the raw data can't be exported, it's kind of vendor lock-in ☹)
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12:20 < warren> glezos: this is a unique project in that here is no central entity to pay for services, I suppose one of the supporting companies or non-profits could pay for a service but that's outside the scope of these developer meetings.
12:20 < glezos> happy to help y'all out though with the reports and share the data
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12:22 < wumpus> ok, I think it's time to move to the next topic -- thanks a lot glezos  and diegobz for being here and helping with answers and suggestions
12:22 < glezos> you bet
12:22 < wumpus> #topic what to do with change output creation with bech32 (instagibbs)
12:23 < instagibbs> so this is wrt #16884
12:23 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16884 | wallet: Change default address type to bech32 by instagibbs · Pull Request #16884 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:23 < wumpus> link: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15560#issuecomment-531796601
12:23 < luke-jr> why would default type affect that?
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12:23 < instagibbs> it doesn't necessarily, we could mimick the other direction of course
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12:24 < instagibbs> The original motivation IIRC was something like we want to mimick the destination if they use bech32 because privacy and cheaper anyways
12:24 < instagibbs> we didn't mimick legacy output destinations
12:25 < luke-jr> Core doesn't support Lightning, so should just be using p2pkh by default, so I'm going to recuse myself from this topic since it has IMO flawed premises
12:25 < wumpus> so with a different default it'd simply be as if the user chose a different address type, right?
12:25 < instagibbs> so you should agree with me, if user specifies p2sh-pwpkh change itshould just do it :P
12:25 < instagibbs> it uses more weight
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12:26 < wumpus> it seems we don't have many people here today with an opinion on this today 
12:26 < instagibbs> specific change up for q anyways: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16884/commits/eaab744a5058fd954c2c4985237941e99e30f062
12:26 < instagibbs> in case someone sees this and wants to complain in the PR
12:26 < instagibbs> :)
12:26 < instagibbs> we can move on
12:27 < wumpus> yes
12:27 < wumpus> #topic High priority for review
12:27 < wumpus> let's do this topic as every work, though, it might be better to focus on things tagged 0.19 now than specifically tagged ones
12:28 < fanquake> ^
12:28 < MarcoFalke> agree
12:28 < wumpus> (because rc1 is planned for oct 1)
12:28 < MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/37
12:28 < fanquake> Also sanity testing 0.17.2 binaries when available.
12:29 < wumpus> yes, 0.17.2 code signatures were put up shortly ago
12:29 < luke-jr> rc2*
12:29 < MarcoFalke> Added 0.19 as blocker to high prio
12:29 < wumpus> rc2, yes, rc1 was DOA
12:29 < MarcoFalke> (its a note in the project board)
12:29 -!- Victor_sueca is now known as Victorsueca
12:29 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: thanks!
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12:31 < wumpus> ok, that concludes this topic
12:31 < fanquake> Might want to do #16713 first instead of Mobile GUI, if anyone has an opinion. cc MarcoFalke
12:31 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16713 | Ignore old versionbit activations to avoid unknown softforks warning by jnewbery · Pull Request #16713 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:31 < wumpus> #topic android QML GUI (fanquake)
12:32 < wumpus> I don't really think this is the best time to discuss this, because of 0.19 coming up, seems more of a future topic, but maybe it makes sense to discuss
12:32 < wumpus> oh
12:32 < jonasschnelli> Looks like this is worth exploring...
12:32 < jonasschnelli> I also don't know what to discuss on that topic
12:33 < wumpus> dunno either, maybe better to keep it to github for now: #16883
12:33 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16883 | WIP: Qt: add QML based mobile GUI by icota · Pull Request #16883 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:33 < jonasschnelli> Yes. Agree.
12:33 < wumpus> #topic Ignore old versionbit activations
12:33 < wumpus> #16713
12:33 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16713 | Ignore old versionbit activations to avoid unknown softforks warning by jnewbery · Pull Request #16713 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:33 < MarcoFalke> Can't we switch the existing GUI to qml, so that there is only one for all devices (convergence, 2019, buzzword, ...)
12:33 < wumpus> I think we need to merge one of these before 0.19 to prevent false positivs
12:33 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: in the long term, yes
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12:34 < MarcoFalke> my take on #16713 is in one of the comments
12:34 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16713 | Ignore old versionbit activations to avoid unknown softforks warning by jnewbery · Pull Request #16713 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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12:34 < wumpus> it wasn't made easier by there being two competing PRs, and I kind of lost track
12:34 < MarcoFalke> I think sdaftuar had some different thoughts on it
12:34 < wumpus> yes :)
12:35 < MarcoFalke> Unsure if he is here rn
12:36 < wumpus> so maybe we want to do some quick low-impract change for 0.19 just to get rid of the undesired warnings, then for 0.20 go for a better solution
12:36 < MarcoFalke> silence means ACK, right?
12:36 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: decisions are not made at meetings
12:36 < luke-jr> (for just this reason)
12:36 < wumpus> I think he's joking ...
12:36 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: (re QML) I'm not sure a mobile UI and desktop UI have enough overlap
12:37 < jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: mobile devices have different use cases. You can't just "scale" the desktop UI.
12:37 < wumpus> but they could definitely share code
12:38 < jonasschnelli> for sure
12:38 < wumpus> and have some QML in the desktop GUI, they just wouldn't be exaclty the same
12:38 < luke-jr> would be nice to unify RPC and GUI transaction logic too
12:38 < jonasschnelli> isn't that mostly the case?
12:38 < luke-jr> no
12:38 < luke-jr> we have 3 copies of the almost-same logic
12:38 < wumpus> in any case, I think we ran out of topics
12:38 < jonasschnelli> indeed
12:39 < wumpus> mayebe we can bring up instagibbs' topic again next week if there's more people interested in discussing it
12:39 < wumpus> #endmeering
12:39 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:39 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Sep 19 19:39:25 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:39 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-09-19-19.00.html
12:39 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-09-19-19.00.txt
12:39 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-09-19-19.00.log.html
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12:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #16920: test: Fix extra_args in wallet_import_rescan.py (master...1909-testUseCorrectPythonSyntax) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16920
12:41 < sdaftuar> oops, hi
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12:56 < promag> > Can't we switch the existing GUI to qml
12:56 < promag> MarcoFalke: not sure if qtquickcontrols is there yet 
12:56 < promag> I mean, to mirror existing interface
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14:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #16921: tests: Add information on how to add Vulture suppressions (master...vulture-suppressions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16921
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14:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift closed pull request #16136: Add an optional extra level of checking: DCHECK(...) - an opt-in side-effect safe assert(...) (master...check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16136
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14:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift closed pull request #15805: log: Increase signal-to-noise in bitcoind standard output. Don't print debug output "Pre-allocating to position ..." and "Leaving block file ..." when running with -nodebug (default). (master...stdout-signal-to-noise) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15805
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14:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #16922: net: filteradd message: update bloom filter empty/full flags after adding (master...20190919-net-update_empty_full_after_adding_filter) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16922
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 20 00:00:17 2019