--- Log opened Thu Jun 04 00:00:41 2020
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02:38 < hebasto> something wrong happens with travis arm builds...
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03:16 < hebasto> MarcoFalke: about TSan -- https://github.com/google/sanitizers/issues/1258#issuecomment-638755284
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03:32 < phantomcircuit> do we have any kind of per node nonce already?
03:32 < phantomcircuit> i need one for the block filter indexes and i don't want to double up on that
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06:23 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: you mean like CNode::GetLocalNonce? it's used for checking against connections to self 
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06:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/76e64525ff38...584170a3888e
06:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa1d580 MarcoFalke: validation: Remove unused boost interruption_point
06:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa3b4f9 MarcoFalke: validation: Make VerifyDB level 4 interruptible
06:46 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 584170a fanquake: Merge #19142: validation: Make VerifyDB level 4 interruptible
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06:46 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #19142: validation: Make VerifyDB level 4 interruptible (master...2006-valVerifyDbInterrupt4) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19142
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07:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/584170a3888e...b46fb5cb1058
07:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d15db4b Jonathan Schoeller: refactor: Fix unreachable code in init arg checks
07:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eea8114 Jonathan Schoeller: build: Enable unreachable-code-loop-increment
07:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b46fb5c Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19131: refactor: Fix unreachable code in init arg checks
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07:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19131: refactor: Fix unreachable code in init arg checks (master...fix-Wunreachable-code-loop-increment) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19131
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07:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b46fb5cb1058...011fe009f9ee
07:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ac94141 Karl-Johan Alm: validation: delay flushing undo files in syncing node case
07:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 011fe00 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17994: validation: flush undo files after last block write
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07:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17994: validation: flush undo files after last block write (master...200124-rev-files) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17994
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08:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/011fe009f9ee...365f1082e1e6
08:17 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa1433a MarcoFalke: rpc: Remove special case for unknown service flags
08:17 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 365f108 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19112: rpc: Remove special case for unknown service flags
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08:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19112: rpc: Remove special case for unknown service flags (master...2005-rpcServiceFlagsUnknown) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19112
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08:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/365f1082e1e6...39afe5b1c68c
08:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7daffc6 Gillian Chu: [test] CScriptNum Decode Check as Unit Tests
08:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 39afe5b Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19082: test: Moved the CScriptNum asserts into the unit test in scr...
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08:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19082: test: Moved the CScriptNum asserts into the unit test in script.py (master...issue24) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19082
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10:35 < phantomcircuit> wumpus, no i need a permanent secret to set the siphash keys
10:36 < phantomcircuit> if i use a per node siphash key i can avoid recalculating the hashes of all the wallet elements when using the filter index for rescan
10:36 < sipa> phantomcircuit: by per node, you mean one globally for the current node
10:36 < sipa> not one per peer?
10:37 < phantomcircuit> sipa, globally
10:37 < phantomcircuit> im talking about building a new filter index with siphash keys that are random to that node but are fixed
10:37 < phantomcircuit> i don't see how i can add that to the index db itself
10:37 < phantomcircuit> but maybe im missing something obvious
10:38 < sipa> addrman has one
10:38 < phantomcircuit> for benchmarking i just have them fixed as 0 1 but that's kind of easy to guess
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11:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fjahr opened pull request #19168: Refactor: Improve setup_clean_chain semantics (master...test_chain) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19168
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11:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/39afe5b1c68c...01b45b2e016f
11:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8b3136b Sebastian Falbesoner: refactor: replace CNode pointers by references within net_processing.{h,cp...
11:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 01b45b2 MarcoFalke: Merge #19053: refactor: replace CNode pointers by references within net_pr...
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11:47 < sipa> #proposedmeetingtopic merging of Schnorr in libsecp256k1
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11:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19053: refactor: replace CNode pointers by references within net_processing.{h,cpp} (master...20200522-refactor-use-cnode-references-within-net_processing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19053
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11:50 < kanzure> (the scan for proposals runs five minutes prior to the meeting)
11:51 < sipa> ah good to know
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11:59 < MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic kill travis
11:59 < MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic kill 0.14
11:59 < jonasschnelli> heh
11:59 < wumpus> 0.14 is still alive?
11:59 < jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: extend https://bitcoinbuilds.org?
12:00 < MarcoFalke> Something with GitHub integration would be nice
12:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:00 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jun  4 19:00:22 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:00 < jnewbery> hi
12:00 < kanzure> hi
12:00 < MarcoFalke> hoy
12:00 < sipa> hi
12:00 < troygiorshev> hi
12:00 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
12:00 < ariard> hi
12:00 < wumpus> jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
12:00 < fjahr> hi
12:00 < elichai2> Hi
12:00 < jonasschnelli> hi
12:00 < achow101> hi
12:01 < luke-jr> hi
12:01 < jamesob> hi
12:01 < real_or_random> hi
12:01 < wumpus> hi
12:02 < wumpus> #topic High priority for review
12:02 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  currently 12 blockers, 3 chasing concept ACK
12:02 < jonatack> hi
12:02 < wumpus> this is a record high number :)
12:03 < luke-jr> please add #18818
12:03 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18818 | Fix release tarball generated by gitian by luke-jr · Pull Request #18818 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:04 < amiti> hi
12:04 < ariard> if we can add #18797 too plz ? it's pretty simple to review and added a lengthy motivation
12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18797 | Export standard Script flags in bitcoinconsensus by ariard · Pull Request #18797 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:04 < wumpus> luke-jr: added
12:04 < luke-jr> thx
12:04 < wumpus> I think we need more review before we add even more PRs but okay
12:04 < luke-jr> ariard: it's conceptually non-simple
12:05 < MarcoFalke> I looked at some of the high prio ones, but no one looked at mine :(
12:05 < wumpus> at some point if we keep adding high priority PRs then it's no more of a help than github's PR list
12:05 < ariard> luke-jr: I added a motivation since last discussion, I invite you to express your reply on the PR
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12:05 < wumpus> anyhow, added
12:05 < jamesob> MarcoFalke: will try to take a look this weekend
12:05 < jonatack> wumpus: I agree... too many blockers means no blockers
12:06 < sipsorcery> hi
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12:06 < wumpus> I mean everyone is entitled to having one high prio PR and there's a lot of contributors so it's not entirely unexpected
12:06 < MarcoFalke> jamesob: thx
12:06 < wumpus> I kind of hope reviewing will go back to pre-corona activity at some point
12:08 < ariard> it sounds also all hi prio prs affect different parts of the codebase, which may be not a bad signal to have a lot of them?
12:09 < wumpus> ok, let's go over the rest of the proposed topics, there's a lot for today
12:09 < luke-jr> hmm
12:09 < wumpus> #topic Peer logging (troygiorshev)
12:10 < troygiorshev> Hey everyone
12:10 < troygiorshev> I have a proposal for extending the per-peer message capture and resource tracking capabilities.
12:10 < jeremyrubin> MarcoFalke: fwiw I'm more likely to look at something when explicitly asked to review it
12:10 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
12:10 < troygiorshev> It's here
12:10 < troygiorshev> https://gist.github.com/troygiorshev/f2fedca9b2ab8a2c6449c92d92e17678
12:10 < troygiorshev> If anyone's given it a look I'm happy to answer any questions
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12:12 < wumpus> is there a PR or issue for this?
12:12 < jeremyrubin> troygiorshev: I like this kind of stuff. I'm curious if you have intuition on how much overhead it is to track
12:12 < wumpus> if not, I don't think yo ucan expect anyone to have had a look at this
12:12 < elichai2> troygiorshev: the general idea sounds interesting, especially if there will be a defined structure to it, so that external tools can analyze/aggregate the logs
12:12 < jamesob> Concept ACK, would love more comprehensive per-peer statistics for the for-now-fictional monitoring framework I've been noodling on
12:12 < sipa> concept ack, but it's very high level
12:12 < troygiorshev> wumpus: not yet, thanks for the suggestion
12:13 < sipa> things will depend on how invasive it is, what performance impact it has, ...
12:13 < sipa> but in general, gather more of these statistics is definitely useful
12:13 < jamesob> sipa: presumably it would be opt-in, but your questions are still relevant
12:13 < wumpus> also how complex the added code is and how much extra maintence work it is
12:14 < troygiorshev> jeremyrubin: I don't expect it will be run all of the time, but that will be something I keep a close eye on.  With it being toggleable, when people are using it they probably won't care about the performace impact (as I don't expect it will be massive my any means)
12:14 < sipa> right, but even if it's opt-in, if it's so invasive that it alters the data it's measuring... it may be a problem :)
12:14 < jamesob> true!
12:14 < troygiorshev> elichai2: absolutely.  I'll also be building a bit of an analysis tool
12:15 < jamesob> maybe there's a validation-queue-style decoupling you could do (or resurrect the logging thread PR and extend that)
12:15 < jnewbery> jamesob: for stats tracking it might not be opt-in. Eventually we might want to use those stats to do peer throttling/eviction
12:15 < wumpus> it reminds me of the statoshi changes (which IIRC never got integrated, nor even proposed, beause they're too invasive)
12:15 < sipa> jnewbery: indeed
12:15 < phantomcircuit> hi
12:15 < jamesob> jnewbery: makes sense, but could start opt-in and make various measurements mandatory on a case-by-case basis
12:15 < sipa> of course
12:15 < jonatack> troygiorshev: i read it. i think it addresses a real issue but needs much more detail and also describe much more any previous work on this
12:16 < luke-jr> one thing to keep in mind is we don't want detailed logging by default
12:16 < jamesob> wumpus: and they introduce a dependency on a statsd library iirc
12:16 < jnewbery> wumpus: statoshi is global statistics for the node. This is more targetted towards troubleshooting/investigating interactions with individual peers
12:16 < wumpus> in which case you might want to talk with Jameson Lopp
12:16 < luke-jr> last thing we need is people getting subpoena'd to find out which peer relayed what
12:16 < wumpus> jnewbery: which sounds even more involved
12:17 < sipa> luke-jr: logging to an external file should definitely remain opt-in, of course
12:17 < wumpus> luke-jr: that's also a serious risk
12:17 < wumpus> detailed logging should *definitely* not be enabled by default
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12:17 < jamesob> is there a near costless way of "teeing" each P2P message received to some separate analysis thread?
12:17 < troygiorshev> jamesob, sipa: I hope that, in its initial form, it will have no impact whatsover when disabled, and that it won't modify messages in any way when enabled.  imo it wouldn't be an effetive monitoring tool if it changed things
12:18 < troygiorshev> (We're not quanum physics here :))
12:18 < sipa> sure
12:18 < jamesob> troygiorshev: I think the concern is not message modification but introducing some delay that materially affects p2p behavior as a second-order thing
12:18 < wumpus> jamesob: tcpdump? :)
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12:18 < jeremyrubin> TBH I think the best thing is tcpdump-like
12:18 < jamesob> wumpus: sounds good to me! let's not do this in core if that's practical!
12:19 < sipa> i think there are two separate goals, and they may need different solutions
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12:19 < jeremyrubin> You might want to do it in core for encryption reasons
12:19 < wumpus> wireshark has a bitcoin P2P protocol dissector, for example
12:19 < sipa> dumping logs may be doable with tcpdump or other external tools
12:19 < jnewbery> I don't think there's a huge amount to discuss yet. I just suggested that troy raise this in a meeting so people are aware of the project and know where to leave feedback/suggestions
12:19 < sipa> but tracking of statistics that we may want to one day use to influence p2p behavior can't be done that way
12:19 < wumpus> if your goal is really to capture all P2P data, that approach sounds better than adding yet another layer in bitcoind
12:19 < MarcoFalke> I think it is hard to give feedback when the exact goal is a bit vague right now. Is this for internal node stats? Is this for logging plaintext to a file? Is this for exporting stats to a serialized file?
12:19 < wumpus> yes it's useless for statistics
12:20 < wumpus> agree there's mixed goals here
12:20 < jamesob> an OOB process could then feed back into core via an RPC interface, if desired
12:21 < wumpus> we already have some light statistics, like a P2P message type histogram in core, doesn't hurt to add more oft hose things esp. if they're opt-in and don't add to memory use of the CNode struct too much
12:21 < phantomcircuit> wireguard even has a dissector for this
12:21 < sipa> yeah
12:21 < wumpus> but if you want full traffic intercept, that kind of thing doesn't belong in bitcoind imo
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12:21 < wumpus> phantomcircuit: yup
12:22 < jamesob> troygiorshev: anyway, looking forward to some details!
12:22 < jnewbery> wumpus: tcpdump isn't aware of application details. It'd be impossible to log messages from peers with subversion="thing" for example
12:22 < jnewbery> unless you dumped all traffic all the time and then filtered after the fact
12:22 < troygiorshev> lots of good points, thanks.  Certainly I agree, it's not for statistics.  The immediate benefit would be for debugging, one of the long term benefits could be intelligent peer-selection
12:22 < sipa> yeah, let's wait for some details
12:22 < jb55> troygiorshev: I have been adding usdt bpf traces to my node for exactly this use case. it adds low-overhead nop instructions that linux can plug into at runtime. and with bpftrace you can write scripts to gather node stats
12:23 < luke-jr> not impossible w wireshark
12:23 < phantomcircuit> jnewbery, the wireguard dissector actually means you can do exactly that
12:23 < luke-jr> though maybe not implemented
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12:23 < wumpus> jnewbery: dunno about tcpdump but wireshark can do some quite complex context/application-specific filters
12:23 < jnewbery> yes, I understand you can filter afterwards. The point is that you end up with enormous pcap files because you have to capture all traffic
12:23 < wumpus> yes, but also it is a pretty rare case for most people
12:23 < phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it's literally implemented bitcoin.version.user_agent
12:24 < wumpus> some things should really be external tooling
12:24 < luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that just matches the version packet tho?
12:24 < phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you can select tcp streams based on it though
12:24 < wumpus> yupp
12:24 < phantomcircuit> i cant remember how but i know you can
12:24 < sipa> fwiw, i'm more interested in gathering statistics (possibly some day gathered by default) than just protocol dumps
12:25 < jonasschnelli> would ne no longer fun for post BIP324 connections
12:25 < jonasschnelli> (outside core)
12:25 < sipa> jonasschnelli: also a good point
12:25 < jamesob> would be nice to make it easy for people to voluntarily give a detailed dump of p2p stats
12:25 < luke-jr> cool
12:25 < troygiorshev> i'm personally a huge fan of BIP324 and AltNet and related, so I'
12:25 < troygiorshev> I'm keeping those in the back of my mind as I think about htis
12:25 < wumpus> so: statistics yes, protocol dump controversial
12:26 < jnewbery> right, it's impossible to do any kind of dynamic packet filtering outside the application if it's encrypted
12:26 < wumpus> let's regard thes as separate topics
12:26 < luke-jr> jnewbery: NOT IF YOU PROVIDE KEYS
12:26 < luke-jr> oops sorry for caps
12:27 < sipa> shower thought: are pcap files easy? if so, maybe it's useful post-BIP324 to permit dumping the decrypted stream in pcap format
12:27 < jonasschnelli> luke-jr: would probably be complicated to impossible in wireshark
12:27 < wumpus> but I'd suggest first writing some document detailing more what you want to do, or make a example implementation
12:27 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it does for https already
12:27 < MarcoFalke> For logging, one could disable bip324
12:27 < sipa> indeed, seems there are many partially overlapping ideas here
12:27 < wumpus> as said this is quite vague and abstract right now
12:27 < jnewbery> sipa: I don't think you'd want pcap. By the time you've got to the application, you've lost all the lower protocol layers
12:28 < sipa> perhaps
12:29 < wumpus> you could add these zero-cost linux abstraction hooks to bitcoind (forgot the name)
12:29 < jb55> ebpf
12:29 < wumpus> yess
12:29 < jb55> I have a branch for it
12:29 < wumpus> that's extremely flexible and allows for all kinds of diagnostics and experiments without impact on the code itself
12:30 < jb55> I've been using it to time ibd and gathering histograms. it just inserts NOP instructions that linux hooks into
12:30 < jb55> so only had overhead when you are plugged in
12:30 < jb55> but you could also just compile it with traces disabled
12:31 < troygiorshev> well I'll definitely be checking out everything that was said here, thanks everyone!
12:31 < wumpus> someone even did a presentation at a bitcoin coredev meetup about this once, I forgot who
12:31 < luke-jr> iirc gcc can inject tracing stuff auto
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12:32 < jb55> here's an example bpftrace script that I am using + a connect_block usdt tracepoint https://jb55.com/s/ibd.bt.txt
12:32 < wumpus> jb55: thanks!
12:32 < sipa> seeing USDT in this channel scares me
12:32 < troygiorshev> jb55: amazing!
12:32 < jb55> so you can share these bpftrace scripts that gather stats without hardcoding anything into core itself, you just have to insert the tracepoints in interesting places
12:32 < jb55> and you can extract values as well from the tracepoints, so you can log structs, etc
12:32 < jnewbery> wumpus: are you thinking of evan klitzke's work on flame graphs and probing?
12:33 < wumpus>  eklitzke was that
12:33 < jamesob> jnewbery: I thought same but I think those are kernel probs; this looks like userland stuff
12:33 < wumpus> yes
12:33 < jamesob> *probes
12:33 < wumpus> they work in userland too
12:33 < wumpus> jnewbery: yes!
12:33 < jb55> yeah the perf tool uses the same underlying tech, linux tracepoints, ebpf a way of executing these scripts securely within the kernel as bytecode
12:34 < wumpus> could add a probe that is called on every P2P packet, for ex.
12:34 < jb55> that's what the script I linked is doing. that is compiled and run within the kernel, and taps into those usdt tracepoints
12:34 < jb55> it can also access low level io/net kernel traces within the same script which is nice
12:35 < jb55> might be overkill but its super powerful
12:35 < wumpus> that's really awesome 
12:35 < wumpus> well it's overkill but also the range of things you miht need for diagnosing or testing specific things calls for something flexible which is why it is that way
12:36 < jb55> here's the patch I'm using to experiment with it https://jb55.com/s/tracepoints.patch.txt
12:36 < wumpus> the alternative is generally to recompile with all kinds of instrumentation but that requires a recompile and patching every time
12:36 < jamesob> seems like it'd make a lot of sense to build in ./configure-able dtrace taps...
12:36 < jb55> if there's interest I would PR it, just wasn't sure
12:37 < wumpus> there definitely is interest!
12:37 < jb55> kk
12:37 < jonatack> jb55: yes
12:37 < jamesob> jb55: cool work
12:38 < sipa> indeed
12:38 < wumpus> we need to cover some other topics today so moving on for now, maybe discuss this further out of meeting 
12:39 < wumpus> #topic Merging of Schnorr in libsecp256k1 (sipa)
12:39 < sipa> hi
12:39 < troygiorshev> yep thanks again everyone I'll make an issue with this more formalized and many questions answered!
12:39 < wumpus> troygiorshev: thanks
12:39 < sipa> so with the prospect of having BIP340-342 one day merged, there will need to be a time to merge BIP340 support in libsecp256k1
12:40 < sipa> and i was wondering if we have a good feel for when the right time is
12:40 < wumpus> I don't see any drawbacks to merging it as an optionally enabled feature
12:40 < sipa> yeah
12:41 < sipa> i think the code is pretty much done; it was recently stripped of some future feature (batch validation) and cleaned up
12:41 < nickler> it's an experimental module right now, so it needs to be explicitly enabled
12:41 < sipa> of course it'd be experimental for now
12:41 < sipa> (thanks to nickler)
12:41 < sipa> do we want to update libsecp256k1 in master before adding the schnorr code first?
12:41 < sipa> so that the diff is minimized?
12:41 < wumpus> I guess before exposing it publicly there needs to be some agreement with regard to the interface, though not 100%, it's expected for there to be some drift over the initial releases with it
12:42 < wumpus> sipa: I don't think that can hurt in any case
12:42 < sipa> to me, it feels that there needs to be some confidence that this is the functionality that will eventually make it into bitcoin
12:42 < wumpus> last secp256k1 subtree update has been a while
12:42 < sipa> we wouldn't just merge support for anything in libsecp256k1, being a subproject of bitcoin core
12:42 < wumpus> there's a lot of expectations around it ending up in bitcoin eventually at least
12:43 < sipa> but i think that confidence can be (significantly) lower than full consensus rules implemented in core
12:43 < sipa> *than what is needed for
12:43 < nickler> fwiw the PR looks good to me right now and many people looked at it already but it has changed quite a bit over time. If these people would be interested in having another look, that would be helpful.
12:43 < elichai2> I'd like to review the new keypair direction but I do hope that BIP340 will actually end up in bitcoin in the end so I think it's ok to move toward merging schnorr to libsecp
12:44 < wumpus> I think the most important thing to be confident about is that the algorithm, and the code, is secure
12:44 < sipa> link: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/secp256k1/pull/558
12:44 < real_or_random> elichai2: I mean we don't need to merge it in the current state.
12:45 < real_or_random> but it's good to know when we feel confident enough that we want it in the codebase at all
12:45 < sipa> yeah
12:46 < sipa> that's why i'm bringing it up here
12:46 < sipa> unless there are other comments, that's all from me
12:46 < nickler> Afaik we've addressed all comments on the BIPS on the mailing list in some form of another
12:47 < sipa> some TODOs left for clarifications/rationales, but no semantics changes
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12:47 < jamesob> who are the people who have spent enough time on this to give meaningful ACKs?
12:48 < nickler> for the libsecp PR there's a few that could review it relatively quickly (elichai, real-or-random, sipa)
12:49 < jamesob> I'm curious if there's anyone here who *doesn't* think schnorr will or should eventually be a part of bitcoin
12:49 < elichai2> I think the big "political" question in terms of merging is if anyone believes that BIP340 doesn't have a good chance of landing in bitcoin core
12:49 < elichai2> jamesob: exactly :)
12:49 < jamesob> right
12:49 < wumpus> FWIW: this was what eklitzke wrote about tracepoints at the time: https://eklitzke.org/how-sytemtap-userspace-probes-work
12:49 < sipa> jamesob: i think the right question is whether it will be part of bitcoin *in this form*
12:49 < jamesob> sipa: ah
12:50 < troygiorshev> wumpus: thanks
12:50 < elichai2> sipa: by *this form* I assume you mean the algorithm and not the API?
12:50 < sipa> elichai2: yes
12:51 < elichai2> sipa: did you get any comments on the curve mailinglist?
12:51 < wumpus> we have 10 minutes left and two (small) topics left 
12:51 < jamesob> I think anyone who feels they're capable of evaluation should speak up, because I think a whole lot of us are not qualified...
12:51 < real_or_random> also not everything is in the current PR
12:51 < real_or_random> e.g., no batch verification at the moment
12:52 < wumpus> but I guess it's better to postpone those to next week
12:52 < real_or_random> we (the BIPauthors) feel it's in a good state, I think otherwise sipa wouldn't bring this up
12:53 < elichai2> The last time I reviewed it it was in a pretty good state, I assume it's even better now
12:53 < jeremyrubin> jamesob: it's also useful to have people out themselves as useless
12:53 < jamesob> jeremyrubin: /me raises hand
12:53 < jeremyrubin> jamesob: rather than seeming passive ack. I'm not opposed but am unqualified to comment
12:54 < jamesob> I think I would not be wrong in characterizing most people at this meeting as "generally favorable towards schnorr -> bitcoin but unable to provide meaningful commentary on the specifics"
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12:55 < sipa> i think part of the question is here are about measuring community expectations, and not necessarily technical review itself
12:55 < jamesob> IMO PR it. Best way to get the qualified commentary out.
12:55 < wumpus> definitely favorable enough to merge it into secp256k1, which is a small step and easily reverted
12:56 < MarcoFalke> Well, a bump to the current libsecp wouldn't hurt
12:56 < MarcoFalke> The overhead is just another two commits
12:56 < sipa> MarcoFalke: I'll PR a bump (pre-schnorr) soon
12:56 < MarcoFalke> thx
12:56 < sipa> there have been some nice improvements in master too
12:56 < wumpus> I don't think this is a point where Schnorr progress should be held up on
12:57 < wumpus> ofc. there will be a long stuggle to get it into bitcoin itself and hopefully a lot of people that will review the cryptography and code in detail
12:58 < MarcoFalke> Btw, my short topic was to delete the 0.14 and 0.15 branches because they won't be pushed to anymore and are EOL https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/704
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12:58 < MarcoFalke> Any objections?
12:58 < jeremyrubin> Keeping the tags tho?
12:58 < sipa> delete the branches, keep the tags?
12:58 < MarcoFalke> jeremyrubin: Sure
12:58 < wumpus> ACK: if there have been no commits since the last version tag
12:58 < jeremyrubin> sipa: jinx
12:58 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: The only commit is deleting the release notes
12:58 < wumpus> if there have been commits since please create a -final tag or so
12:58 < wumpus> fine w/ me
12:59 < wumpus> yes, the tags should *definitely* be kept
12:59 < wumpus> never delete tags
12:59 < MarcoFalke> I don't think we need another tag when just the release notes have been cleared
12:59 < sipa> agree
12:59 < wumpus> (e.g. see v0.12-final etc)
12:59 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: I agree if that's the only thing
13:00 < MarcoFalke> I think for 0.12 we had some code change backports
13:00 < wumpus> the other branches has unreleased bugfixes ported to them I think
13:00 < wumpus> yes
13:00 < MarcoFalke> Jup, 0.16 has a CVE fix xD
13:00 < wumpus> #endmeeting
13:00 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun  4 20:00:54 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
13:00 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-06-04-19.00.html
13:00 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-06-04-19.00.txt
13:00 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-06-04-19.00.log.html
13:01 < gwillen> has there been discussion here of https://cryptopotato.com/trezor-releases-a-firmware-update-to-patch-a-possible-vulenrability-with-segwit-transactions/
13:01 < MarcoFalke> oh, no. There was 0.16.3, so it was released after all
13:01 < gwillen> I am surprised not to have seen much discussion of this yet
13:03 < MarcoFalke> gwillen: Hasn't this been discussed on the mailing list a while ago?
13:03 < achow101> gwillen: it was ostensibly public knowledge already, we just happened to be ignoring it
13:03 < gwillen> ok, makes sense
13:04 < MarcoFalke> Pretty sure I saw at least one thread with this (or somthing like that)
13:04 < achow101> but with hardware wallets doing something about it, we will need to change PSBT stuff
13:04 < achow101> which I'm working on
13:04 < sipa> i assumed that everyone thought it was too hard to deal with, and only of minimal impact (attackers would need to consistently get you to sign twice, and only gain miners money)
13:04 < sipa> it's fixed (and referenced) in BIP341
13:04 < gwillen> right, they would need either a colluding miner, or they would have to make it an extortion threat ("pay me or I burn your coins")
13:05 < jonatack> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0341.mediawiki#cite_note-17
13:05 < achow101> I guess there's a question if we want the Core signer to also require non_witness_utxo too for segwit inputs and basically just ignore witness_utxo
13:05 < achow101> or maybe supplement witness_utxo with utxo set info. or just do nothing
13:06 < achow101> i'm inclined to go with do nothing
13:06 < sipa> that'll break the ability to sign on trezor (and others that adopt similar changes)?
13:06 < achow101> and just change updating to also put a non_witnes_utxo for segwit inputs
13:06 < gwillen> I don't think that requiring the full UTXO actually fixes the whole problem, although it makes it harder to exploit
13:07 < sipa> gwillen: if signers verify that information, it's a full solution i think
13:07 < achow101> sipa: we only need to change updating to let signing work
13:07 < achow101> with those hardware wallets
13:07 < sipa> yes
13:07 < sipa> because i think our signer already verifies the full non-witness utxo information if it's present
13:07 < sipa> right?
13:07 < achow101> yes
13:08 < achow101> what I mean is whether we should have our signer require non_witness_utxo for segwit inputs too as the hardware wallets are doing
13:08 < sipa> that's a good question
13:08 < sipa> perhaps it should - but have the ability to disable it?
13:08 < gwillen> sipa: nevermind, the alternate attack I was imagining doesn't work
13:09 < achow101> I was thinking possibly look up the UTXO in the UTXO set if we have a witness_utxo
13:09 < achow101> otherwise require the non_witness_utxo
13:09 < sipa> achow101: that also works, but makes the signer non-stateless
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13:09 < sipa> *stateful
13:09 < achow101> yes..
13:09 < sipa> but it is a great solution
13:10 < achow101> also means I won't have to rewrite all of the psbt tests
13:10 < sipa> though, why are you signing on an online machine? :p
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13:11 < achow101> because you're running the functional tests :)
13:11 < sipa> ha
13:11 < achow101> maybe something to discuss at the wallet meeting tomorrow?
13:12 < sipa> yeah
13:29 < phantomcircuit> i could do something horrible and stuff the nonce into the 32 bits of zero in the block hash
13:34 < jeremyrubin> phantomcircuit: you can also just elide the block hash entirely and get 32 bytes of space
13:35 < sipa> phantomcircuit: why do you need a per-node salt? given that the gcs code tweaks by block hash, it should be unpredictable to anyone even with a fixed siphash key
13:41 < phantomcircuit> sipa, so that it doesn't tweak by block hash and i dont have to recalculate the siphash of every script pub key for every block
13:41 < sipa> ah of course
13:43 < phantomcircuit> it kind of all strongly assumes you dont want to do that though so it's kind of annoying
13:44 < phantomcircuit> thus the hack
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14:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] PastaPastaPasta opened pull request #19169: rpc: Validate provided keys for query_options parameter in listunspent (master...bitcoin-validate-keys-listunspent) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19169
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14:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #19170: [0.20] Add missing QPainterPath include (0.20...bugfix_incl_qpainterpath-0.9) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19170
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15:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to 0.20: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e42c959c1dcc...cd32134bda3e
15:22 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 384d3f9 Andrew Chow: Add missing QPainterPath include
15:22 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 cd32134 MarcoFalke: Merge #19170: [0.20] Add missing QPainterPath include
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15:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19170: [0.20] Add missing QPainterPath include (0.20...bugfix_incl_qpainterpath-0.9) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19170
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15:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #19144: include QPainterPath to fix compile error with Qt 5.15 (0.20...0.20) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19144
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20:02 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/01b45b2e016f...4ede05d421e7
20:02 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faa958b MarcoFalke: txindex: Remove unused boost/thread
20:02 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fad8c89 MarcoFalke: txdb: Remove unused boost/thread
20:02 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 89f9fef Hennadii Stepanov: refactor: Specify boost/thread/thread.hpp explicitly
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20:02 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #18758: Remove unused boost/thread (master...2004-noBoostThread) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18758
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21:13 < MM77788811> What's the minimum gcc/clang version to build bitcoin? I didn't find this info in the repo. 
21:16 < sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/dependencies.md
21:16 < sipa> gcc 4.8, clang 3.3
21:20 < fanquake> Note that it's actually 5.1 if you're doing a Windows cross compile
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21:20 < fanquake> Although this will be irrelevant once we require c++17
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21:24 < MM77788811> Thanks sipa
21:25 < MM77788811> When will we allow to use C++17 features? 
21:26 < sipa> optional ones in 0.21
21:26 < sipa> relying on c++17 features in 0.22
21:26 < fanquake> Discussion in #16684
21:26 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16684 | Discussion: upgrading to C++17 · Issue #16684 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
21:26 < sipa> (e.g. the fuzzers currently already require c++17)
21:27 < sipa> the current codebase is compiled and tested on both c++11 and c++17
21:30 < MM77788811> awesome! Thanks for the link gribble, I'm going to give it a read. 
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21:33 < sipa> gribble is a bot ;)
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21:36 < aj> MM77788811 probably just doesn't want to be first against the wall come the robot revolution
21:36 < MM77788811> 😅
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21:37 < sipa> ah, the marketing department of the sirius cybernetics corportion
21:41 < MM77788811> I'm really polite to my Alexa too, thank her whenever she did something right. 
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23:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #19172: test: Do not swallow flake8 exit code (master...200605-mypy) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19172
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 05 00:00:41 2020