--- Log opened Thu Sep 24 00:00:27 2020
00:01 < kallewoof> sipa: technically it was thursday when you said 'hi' 12 hours ago. it just wasn't thursday in the right place (it was thursday in japan tho)
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00:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] naumenkogs closed pull request #19958: p2p: Better document features of feelers (master...2020-09-rename-feeler-to-probe) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19958
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00:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] naumenkogs reopened pull request #19958: p2p: Better document features of feelers (master...2020-09-rename-feeler-to-probe) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19958
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01:12 < sipa> kallewoof: timezones are evil
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01:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #20008: [Backport] #19839 and #19842 to v0.20 (0.20...2020-09-appveyor-backport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20008
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01:42 < jnewbery> wumpus: those appveyor commits fixed my issue. I've opened a PR to just backport those two commits. Thanks for your help!
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02:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] naumenkogs closed pull request #19843: Refactoring and minor improvement for self-advertisements (master...2020-08-refactor-advertiselocal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19843
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02:49 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] naumenkogs reopened pull request #19843: Refactoring and minor improvement for self-advertisements (master...2020-08-refactor-advertiselocal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19843
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04:57 < wumpus> jnewbery: great! yes, seems good to backport them separately and get them in first
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05:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to 0.20: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/30926997fa15...80aa83aa4064
05:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 ad99777 Aaron Clauson: Set appveyor vm version to previous Visual Studio 2019 release.
05:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 498b7cb Aaron Clauson: Update the vcpkg checkout commit ID in appveyor config.
05:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 80aa83a Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20008: [Backport] #19839 and #19842 to v0.20
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05:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20008: [Backport] #19839 and #19842 to v0.20 (0.20...2020-09-appveyor-backport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20008
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05:23 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery closed pull request #19759: [doc] Struct members should have m_ prefix (master...2020-08-struct-members) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19759
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11:36 < luke-jr> sipa: a ton of CNetAddr stuff is changed
11:38 < sipa> luke-jr: yes, i was talking about the 0.20.1 codebase fwiw
11:38 < sipa> i think it's the same in master though
11:39 < luke-jr> _ZN26PartiallySignedTransaction11UnserializeI11CDataStreamEEvRT_
11:40 < luke-jr> this seems to be the worst of it
11:40 < sipa> that's a function you see changed with the gcc patch?
11:42 < luke-jr> yes
11:42 < luke-jr> is there a good way to get objdump disassembly without addresses and similar diff-complicating stuff?
11:45 < luke-jr> https://dpaste.com/23HQPNBF4
11:47 < luke-jr> list of changed code symbols: https://dpaste.com/GU4GPSPB8
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12:00 < MarcoFalke> (been offline from IRC for two weeks. If there are any questions I missed, let me know)
12:00 < MarcoFalke> Also meeting time?
12:00 < jonasschnelli> jep
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12:01 < sipa> hi
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12:01 < sipa> MarcoFalke: wb
12:02 < MarcoFalke> sipa: The qa-assets can be cloned with --depth=1, but it shouldn't make a difference right now, as all files were append only
12:02 < MarcoFalke> Might change when we start deleting fuzz seeds
12:02 < wumpus> #startmeeting
12:02 < lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 24 19:02:37 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:02 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:02 < jonasschnelli> hi
12:02 < jonatack> hi
12:02 < MarcoFalke> hi
12:02 < hebasto> hi
12:02 < amiti> hi
12:02 < fjahr> hi
12:02 < luke-jr> hi
12:02 < sipa> hi
12:02 < achow101> hi
12:03 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james
12:03 < wumpus> amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
12:03 < meshcollider> hi
12:03 < jnewbery> hi
12:03 < wumpus> one proposed topic: what sipa just said (will have to look up in the log what :-)
12:04 < sipa> wumpus: #20005
12:04 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20005 | memcmp with constants that contain zero bytes are broken in GCC · Issue #20005 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:04 < luke-jr> https://dpaste.com/GU4GPSPB8 <-- affected symbols in bitcoind
12:04 < jeremyrubin> hi
12:04 < wumpus> I see
12:05 < sipa> yeah i just wanted to draw attention to this potentially very scary bug
12:05 < wumpus> how did they manage to break such a basic library function
12:05 < kanzure> hi
12:05 < luke-jr> wumpus: they turned it into strcmp sometimes it looks like
12:05 < sipa> wumpus: it's not a libc bug, it's bug in gcc's implementation of __builtin_memcmp
12:05 < luke-jr> at least the consensus code seems to have dodged it
12:06 < sipa> but otherwise yes, this is really concerning
12:06 < sipa> i believe none of our gitian builds are affected, as we use older GCCs
12:06 < sipa> can someone verify that?
12:06 < wumpus> that's at least good to know, let me see
12:06 < luke-jr> macOS build should use LLVM IIRC
12:06 < sipa> luke-jr: indeed
12:07 < jeremyrubin> sipa: is this a generaly class of bugs do you reckon or pretty specific to memcmp? should we be auditing all builtins?
12:07 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Gitian should use 7 and 8 
12:07 < luke-jr> I *assume* LLVM didn't reimplement this bug
12:07 < wumpus> gcc 8 it seems
12:07 < sipa> jeremyrubin: i don't think we have the manpower to do actual auditing of all of gcc's builtins (and other potential bugs), nor is that our job
12:07 < jonasschnelli> bionic uses gcc 7, right?
12:08 < luke-jr> jonasschnelli: yes
12:08 < wumpus> jonasschnelli: but we explicitly install 8 for some platforms
12:08 < luke-jr> ^
12:08 < sipa> jeremyrubin: i think it's important to note that while the bug was known, we stumbled upon it in the libsecp256k1 repo, in a test
12:08 < jonasschnelli> Ah. Yes. Arm / risc uses gcc-8
12:08 < luke-jr> hmm
12:08 < sipa> so that's kind of a sign that our processes are at least capable of catching some issues like this
12:09 < luke-jr> sipa: should I be concerned I *didn't* get any libsecp symbols in my comparison?
12:09 < wumpus> I honestly don't now how to prevent us being affected by problems like this
12:09 < luke-jr> or is the test only in a newer version?
12:09 < sipa> luke-jr: no, i think this is expected (it's in code added in a new test)
12:09 < wumpus> computers are broken
12:09 < jonasschnelli> indeed
12:10 < sipa> reality is often disappointing
12:10 < wumpus> I can understand libc bugs in some cases but this is something so low-level
12:10 < sipa> anyway, i think we should see what performance impact building with -fno-builtin-memcmp has
12:10 < wumpus> sipa: yes but only for affected compilers
12:10 < sipa> if that is sufficiently low, i think that's a sufficient solution - perhaps restricted to GCC 9 and 10
12:10 < luke-jr> sipa: that won't fix C++ afaik
12:11 < sipa> luke-jr: it will
12:11 < sipa> luke-jr: std::lexicographical_compare (in the .h file) just calls __builting_memcmp
12:11 < MarcoFalke> Should we also add a test that fails with gcc9/10?
12:11 < wumpus> I don't even care about peformance there, just add the option, it needs to be correct, if people want performance don't use a broken compiler
12:11 < sipa> MarcoFalke: definitely
12:11 < luke-jr> sipa: -fno-builtin-* doesn't affect __builtin_*
12:11 < sipa> luke-jr: hmm!
12:12 < sipa> that's a good point, let's test that
12:12 < wumpus> that's the important thing thoug hthat it fixes the issue, a test like MarcoFalke says makes a lot of sense
12:12 < luke-jr> at least GCC's docs suggest to whitelist builtins, one should use -fno-builtin and call __builtin_* directly ;)
12:13 < wumpus> or just fail compiling on affected compilers, they're going to backport a fix right?
12:13 < sipa> wumpus: yes
12:13 < luke-jr> wumpus: supposedly, but it looks non-trivial and they haven't yet
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12:13 < wumpus> I'd prefer things to build at all on compilers with a broken memcmp
12:13 < wumpus> +not
12:13 < sipa> it's fixed in master, but not in any release
12:14 < jonatack> gcc 9.3 and 10.1 seem afficted
12:14 < wumpus> (whatever we end up doing, we need a test for this in configure)
12:14 < luke-jr> personally, I neutered my builtin memcmp to always fail (fallback to libc) and am rebuilding my system
12:14 < sipa> wumpus: my first thought was adding a configure test that exploits the bug... but that won't work when crosscompiling
12:14 < sipa> i think?
12:14 < luke-jr> well, crosscompiling, we can't run it
12:14 < wumpus> sipa: ... ugh
12:15 < luke-jr> why not add a sanity check? we have others
12:15 < sipa> unless we assume that building for the host platform is always similarly affected as the target platform
12:15 < wumpus> yes, you'd need to run it to figure it out right
12:15 < jeremyrubin> Is memcmp constexpr?
12:15 < jeremyrubin> Maybe it can static_assert...
12:15 < sipa> jeremyrubin: it's a C function constexpr is a C++ concept
12:15 < wumpus> holy shit this is *really* bad
12:15 < luke-jr> sipa: bad assumption
12:15 < sipa> luke-jr: yes, i think so
12:15 < wumpus> maybe it could expect the symbols generated or something, if it generates a call to strcpy instead?
12:16 < sipa> wumpus: there are no calls involved
12:16 < luke-jr> wumpus: it doesn't
12:16 < sipa> it's the autogenerated builtin code that is wrong
12:16 < luke-jr> wumpus: it's unrolling the memcmp
12:16 < wumpus> ok...
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12:16 < sipa> which makes it implementation something more or less equal to strcmp rather than memcmp
12:16 < luke-jr> basically turns it into if (a[0] == "x" && a[1] == "x" && …)
12:17 < luke-jr> aiui
12:17 < wumpus> that's impossible to check in a platform independent way
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12:17 < jonatack> it's unclear to me if the patch is in the gcc 10.2 release?
12:17 < luke-jr> jonatack: no
12:17 < sipa> jonatack: it is not in any release
12:17 < jonatack> thank you
12:18 < real_or_random> fwiw, this is (part of) the GCC patch that fixes this: https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=blobdiff;f=gcc/builtins.c;h=228db78f32bfdcce31e23850e878843d7a45adcc;hp=eb662112b32e5ad377d2a865d9977c64dc12cc93;hb=d5803b9876b3d11c93d1a10fabb3fbb1c4a14bd6;hpb=3e99ed65cbedf7a6c0abb9cd63c191326995fd34
12:18 < jeremyrubin> Could we wrap memcmp with a compile time wrapper that static asserts we aren't using a const array with a 0 byte? Not sure if you can enable-if-fu around constexpr args.
12:18 < real_or_random> it's hard to read but I think it's possible to deduce a few condition under which this bug can't happen
12:18 < sipa> jeremyrubin: that's not a solution
12:18 < jeremyrubin> The bug only happens when it's a const array right?
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12:19 < sipa> jeremyrubin: if we can identify all potentially affected code paths, we could just replace them with my_memcmp that doesn't have the bug too
12:19 < jeremyrubin> ah right you're worried about other stdlib calls and stuff.
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12:19 < wumpus> but C++ also generates memcmps it's not just our own code
12:19 < wumpus> it's a very low-level function
12:19 < luke-jr> sipa: I just did that? :P
12:20 < sipa> right - "all code paths" also contains std::lexicographical_compare and a few other things
12:20 < sipa> luke-jr: right, but not in a guaranteed automated way
12:20 < sipa> luke-jr: it's a really useful way of finding potential issues now, though
12:20 < sipa> thanks for that
12:21 < sipa> i've tried making configure detect the version of GCC, and so far been unsuccesful
12:22 < sipa> my google-fu led me to 9-year old stackoverflow posts with comments "ah yes, that doesn't work anymore, let's just delete that functionality" from the m4 gcc scripts
12:22 < sipa> (though i'm sure people with more autoconf skills can do better)
12:22 < luke-jr> >_<
12:22 < sipa> the idea is that in general you should test for compiler features, rather than exact versions
12:22 < sipa> which is absolutely true, except for bug workarounds :p
12:22 < wumpus> and as soon as the patch is backported to gcc 9 and 10 it will become more difficult too
12:22 < luke-jr> sipa: ideally, yes
12:22 < luke-jr> sipa: even for bug workarounds, you can't use the version number to see that my GCC is patched ;)
12:23 < sipa> that's true, but it's a safe superset
12:23 < wumpus> worse, some distributions might backport the single patch without changing the version number
12:23 < wumpus> sure, it dpeends on what it does in that case
12:23 < sipa> anyway, what's the plan?
12:23 < wumpus> if it only passes an extra command line flag it's ok
12:23 < sipa> i think the first thing to do is add a unit test that catches the bug
12:23 < luke-jr> sipa: why not sanity test?
12:23 < sipa> though we also need to make sure it doesn't become an "expected failure" thing that people ignore
12:23 < wumpus> but it shouldn't fail the build for versions that have been fixed
12:24 < sipa> luke-jr: that's a good point
12:24 < wumpus> a sanity check makes sense
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12:25 < luke-jr> the GCC bug tracker has a reduced test (note the first test *didn't* fail on my unpatched GCC)
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12:25 < sipa> luke-jr: yeah, it seems the cases you need to catch it differ slightly between gcc 9 and 10
12:25 < luke-jr> hmm
12:26 < luke-jr> I wonder if that means different code could be affected by GCC 9?
12:26 < luke-jr> or is GCC 9's affected a strict subset of GCC 10's?
12:26 < sipa> we also should figure out if -fno-builtin-memcmp fixes std::lexicographical_compare
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12:26 < luke-jr> I very doubt it does
12:26 < sipa> luke-jr: i don't know
12:27 < sipa> i don't want to monopolize the meeting with this; we can also continue discussion on #20005
12:27 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20005 | memcmp with constants that contain zero bytes are broken in GCC · Issue #20005 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:27 < sipa> but i think this is deserves some priority
12:27 < wumpus> we don't have any proposed topics at least
12:27 < wumpus> but we can go to high priority for review if this topic is finished
12:28 < wumpus> #topic High priority for review
12:29 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  13 blockers, 1 bugfix, 2 chasing concept ACK
12:29 < real_or_random> i'm somewhat curious to add a patch to GCC that makes it emit a message if it applies this optimization wrongly. that may be possible with some effort given that we have the GCC patch that fixes the issue. but not sure if I'll find time
12:29 < sipa> real_or_random: luke modified his compiler with the patch, and then tried to see which symbols differ before and after
12:29 < sipa> (we can continue after the high priority for review topic)
12:30 < real_or_random> sipa: oh I missed that, cool
12:30 < real_or_random> yes
12:30 < wumpus> patching gcc is not a solution that we can rely on in general as most people don't build their own gcc
12:31 < luke-jr> right, I was just doing it to quickly audit what was affected
12:31 < wumpus> sure, for that it's a great way
12:32 < luke-jr> sipa: btw, I think it's using __builtin_memcmp for std::equal or == in PSBT stuff?
12:33 < wumpus> nothing to discuss about high priority for review PRs?
12:33 < sipa> i guess not...
12:33 < luke-jr> pls review rwconf :P
12:33 < jonatack> high-priority: #19845 might be close
12:33 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19845 | net: CNetAddr: add support to (un)serialize as ADDRv2 by vasild · Pull Request #19845 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:33 < jonatack> was good to see signet get in this week
12:34 < sipa> indeed
12:34 < luke-jr> wumpus: oh, we could build with -O1 ?
12:35 < wumpus> yes
12:35  * luke-jr wonders how -O1 works but -fno-builtin-memcmp doesn't
12:35 < MarcoFalke> Doesn't that make IBD take twice as long?
12:35 < wumpus> probably
12:35 < wumpus> still better than broken builtins though
12:35 < MarcoFalke> Might be better to refuse to start with the sanity check
12:35 < luke-jr> maybe there's some more granular thing we can disable
12:35 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: both ☺
12:36 < sipa> luke-jr: could you build with -fno-builtin-memcmp without the gcc patch, and then (for the affected symbols from your previous list) check if which ones become equal to the fixed gcc output?
12:37 < luke-jr> sipa: I don't have the unpatched compiler anymore :x
12:37 < luke-jr> on an x86 server, however, -fno-builtin-memcmp did not fix the bug
12:37 < luke-jr> for    int x= __builtin_memcmp (a, "\0\0\0\0", 4);
12:38 < sipa> sure, but we never call __builtin_memcmp directly from our code
12:38 < wumpus> speaking of that, what about other dependency libraries that can be assumed to have been built with the broken compiler
12:39 < wumpus> boost, libupnp, libevent ...
12:39 < luke-jr> we can't fix everything
12:39 < elichai2> wumpus: is it even remotely possible to check what compiler compiled an already compiled library?
12:39 < wumpus> no, we can't
12:39 < sipa> doesn't mean we can't work around it
12:39 < luke-jr> I suppose that's an argument for just the sanity check, and not trying to workaround it
12:39 < wumpus> elichai2: not in gneral
12:40 < sipa> like just not permitting building with known-to-be-affected compilers, which at least in some cases will avoid the situation where dependencies are built with the same thing
12:40 < wumpus> sipa: right
12:40 < sipa> but... if your system itself has bugs introduced by this, i think there is very little we can do about it
12:41 < wumpus> for many distributions at least, the dependencies will have been built with the same gcc/g++ that is available
12:42 < sipa> i believe my python3 binary is built with GCC 9.3
12:42 < sipa> $ strings python3.8 | fgrep GCC
12:42 < sipa> [GCC 9.3.0]
12:45 < jonatack> luke-jr: did the tests in the final patch fail on your unpatched gcc?
12:45 < luke-jr> didn't try
12:46 < wumpus> I'm going to close the meeting, can continue this discussion afterwards and we're out of topics
12:46 < wumpus> #endmeeting
12:46 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Sep 24 19:46:51 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:46 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-09-24-19.02.html
12:46 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-09-24-19.02.txt
12:46 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-09-24-19.02.log.html
12:46 < sipa> sg
12:47 < luke-jr> I can't find a flag that makes -O1 fail :/
12:47 < elichai2> unless both of the sides are constants I can't manage to get `std::lexicographical_compare` to *not* produce a `memcmp` call. 
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12:48 < sipa> elichai2: what if one side is a constant that starts with a 0 byte?
12:48 < sipa> or the length is restricted to at most 3 bytes
12:49 < elichai2> sipa: here: https://godbolt.org/z/65WWPf
12:49 < elichai2> even 2 bytes, where in compile time it can see it's 2 bytes, it still produces a memcmp
12:50 < elichai2> only when the array is 1 byte it doesn't call to memcmp, and instead it generates a `cmp     BYTE PTR [rdi], 0` instruction (compare with zero(because my other array is zero))
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12:51 < sipa> and if you take the same code but with memcmp instead of std::lexicographical_compare, it does avoid the memcmp call
12:51 < roconnor> luke-jr: my understanding is that it isn't quite that builtin_memcmp is broken but an optimization surrounding it that is invoked at level -O2 is broken.
12:52 < sipa> i changed the 0.20.1 source code to replace IsIPv4() with "return ip[0] == 0;" (which is what I understand the bug would turn it into now)... the tests fail
12:53 < sipa> so whatever it's doing, it's not doing that, or we'd have caught it
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12:54 < elichai2> sipa: yes. if I just replace with `memcmp` it produces bad code
12:54 < elichai2> https://godbolt.org/z/a9Wf11
12:57 < elichai2> I think it ***might*** be because `lexicographical_compare` gets both start and end iterators of both sides, then it sees they're the same size, so it replaces with memcmp but it might be the same round where they replace memcmp so it doesn't do this deduction again, ***maybe***
12:57 < meshcollider> Tomorrow is the wallet meeting but I won't be able to make it. So either someone else might want to host, or since it has been quiet the last few meetings we might just cancel it tomorrow
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12:59 < luke-jr> https://dpaste.com/GT7VUNFKV <-- _ZNK8CNetAddr6IsIPv4Ev diff
13:00 < elichai2> luke-jr: is this MIPS?
13:00 < luke-jr> elichai2: PPC
13:00 < luke-jr> sorry, I guess it's not quite familiar to most
13:02 < luke-jr> https://dpaste.com/9E7Z9NNZ7 <-- full assembly dump of it
13:03 < sipa> if i change IsIPv4() to memcmp(...) > 0 (rather than == 0), gcc 9.3 emits broken code
13:03 < sipa> i'm beginning to suspect that (in)equality checks use a different optimization path that isn't affected
13:05 < sipa> which if true would be good news, as it means automatically generated operator== code isn't affected either (and there exists no automatically generated < <= >= >)
13:06 < sipa> != also doesn't seem affected
13:06 < gribble> Error: "=" is not a valid command.
13:06 < sipa> stupid bot
13:10 < elichai2> sipa: I also can't manage to trigger this in `std::equal`
13:11 < jonatack> meshcollider: thanks for the heads up. i guess we'll see who is around.
13:11 < elichai2> (although unlike lexicographical_compare std::equal does optimize nicely)
13:14 < elichai2> damn it
13:14 < elichai2> it also happens with lexicographical_compare
13:15 < elichai2> if you replace the reference with a copy it happens, you can play with the optimization level and see the output changes: https://godbolt.org/z/vxEo8d
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13:33 < elichai2> lol `base_uint` in arith_uint256.h seems to have dodged the bullet by pure luck https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/arith_uint256.h#L217-L222
13:33 < elichai2> (actually, it's really NOT funny)
13:36 < roconnor> uint256.h doesn't compare with a static array, so it should be fine right?
13:36 < sipa> roconnor: it could be a compile-time known value in some cases
13:36 < elichai2> isn't max PoW static?
13:36 < roconnor> fair.
13:37 < sipa> i don't know if being a compile-time known constant it enough to trigger it; maybe it actually has to be a comparison with a constant
13:37 < sipa> *compile-time-known value
13:37 < elichai2> I hate this
13:39 < sipa> elichai2: great find
13:39 < roconnor> It has to be a value that GCC's c_getstr is able to figure out object byte representation for from the source code, however c_getstr works.
13:40 < sipa> elichai2: so, we learn that -fno-builtin-memcmp is not enough
13:40 < elichai2> yes :/
13:41 < sipa> it should be possible to find the subset of functions in STL that are affected by this
13:41 < roconnor> rather than -fno-buildin-memcmp, we need to find a flag that disables this suite of optimizations :/
13:42 < elichai2> we could decide to remove *all* usages of functions comparing stuff, but even `>` gets misoptimized on some containers :(
13:43 < sipa> roconnor: that's a possibility too
13:44 < roconnor> is -O2 stand in for a series of -f flags?
13:44 < sipa> yes
13:45 < roconnor> do we know which ones?
13:46 < elichai2> roconnor: yes, I'm testing them now
13:46 < roconnor> 3>
13:46 < elichai2> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Optimize-Options.html
13:46 < roconnor> oops
13:46 < roconnor> <3
13:47 < elichai2> what, when I manually turn the flags on I don't get the bug OoO
13:47 < sipa> i'm cloning the gcc mirror repo; it's probably not too hard to find which exact flags controls this optimization
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13:48 < roconnor> elichai2: I can believe that :(
13:48 < roconnor> elichai2: did you turn on both the -O and -O2 flags?
13:49 < roconnor> or do an -O  + all the -O2 flags?
13:49 < elichai2> I did `-O1` + all the `-O2` flags
13:50 < sipa> gcc -c -Q -O3 --help=optimizers
13:50 < sipa> prints all the enabled flags
13:52 < elichai2> sipa: +1
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13:53 < roconnor> gcc -c -Q -O2 --help=optimizers | grep -v disabled   ?
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14:07 < elichai2> first `-fno-inline` seems to solve this, but that makes sense and has hugee perf penalty
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14:21 < elichai2> `-O2 -fno-tree-dce -fno-tree-dominator-opts -fno-tree-fre -fno-tree-pre -fno-code-hoisting`
14:21 < sipa> all of those are needed? :S
14:21 < elichai2> looks like it
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14:22 < elichai2> although some flags might imply others so it might be possible to get more granular but this sounds like an NP problem lol 
14:24 < elichai2> ignore what I just said. with `-O2` and all the O2 flags actually disabled, if any of these 5 flags aren't disabled I get the wrong result, they all need to be disabled to get the right results
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14:29 < promag> who has admin role in travis?
14:29 < roconnor> `-O2 -fno-tree-dce -fno-tree-dominator-opts -fno-tree-fre -fno-code-hoisting` seems to do something different.
14:30 < elichai2> roconnor: I still get the wrong result there, through a different path it seems but still the wrong one hehe
14:30 < roconnor> right.  sorry, yes it still appears wrong, but with different wrong asm.
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14:34 < elichai2>  it scares me that my current default compiler in my machine is so much broken right now.
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14:49 < roconnor> ... I've been scrambling to recompile my entire system with gcc 8...
14:49 < roconnor> I don't know if I'm being too paranoid...
14:49 < real_or_random> idk, this bug seems scary at first glance but maybe if the scope is indeed limited, it's just one of hundreds of bugs in GCC. 
14:51 < roconnor> real_or_random: If I figure out that you are right that GCC's miscompiling its own string_length function, I am definitely going to recompile my system.
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14:51 < roconnor> I am not waiting for the outcome of such a mess.
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14:53 < elichai2> roconnor: I'm thinking of recompiling with clang
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16:49 < luke-jr> roconnor: I've been rebuilding my system as well, but with GCC 9 patched to never use the builtin memcmp
16:50 < luke-jr> real_or_random: it's a bug that's higher-than-average risk to create security vulnerabilities
16:51 < luke-jr> roconnor: real_or_random: what's this about string_length func?
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18:38 < roconnor> I managed to rebuild my desktop with gcc 8.  elichai2 let me know how it goes with clang.  I'm worried a lot of packages won't build.
18:39 < roconnor> luke-jr: real_or_random showed me a link to https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=blob;f=gcc/builtins.c;h=eb662112b32e5ad377d2a865d9977c64dc12cc93;hb=eb662112b32e5ad377d2a865d9977c64dc12cc93#l539 earlier which looked horrifying because it looks like the bug might have affected it.
18:39 < roconnor> and it is used in string_length, which is used in c_strlen, which is something that is possibly related to the bug itself.
18:40 < roconnor> that all said, sipa seems to have noticed that memcmp being compared with 0 doesn't seem to tickle this bug.
18:40 < roconnor> which explains to me how it is possible that not every single piece of software is broken.
18:40 < roconnor> I expect memcmp is very often compared with 0.
18:41 < sipa> having read the code: that's exactly it
18:41 < roconnor> oh you understand the gcc code and the bug?
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18:42 < sipa> not the bug
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18:43 < sipa> but there is a flag passed to expand_builtin_memcmp for the case where the sign of the return value of memcmp doesn't matter (for == and != cases)
18:43 < luke-jr> roconnor: why wouldn't anything build? O.o
18:43 < sipa> which has a separate code path
18:44 < luke-jr> sipa: is the fix then "fixing" things that aren't broken?
18:46 < sipa> luke-jr: no?
18:47 < roconnor> luke-jr: you mean with clang?  I sort of expect a handful of packages to use gcc specfic features.
18:47 < roconnor> But what do I know.
18:56 < roconnor> I'll give building everything with clang a try and see how it goes.
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18:59 < luke-jr> oh, I meant GCC 8
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19:02 < roconnor> luke-jr: appstreamer-qt added a -Wno-error=deprecated-copy flag which doesn't exist on GCC 8.
19:03 < roconnor> luke-jr: and nix3.0pre seems to have gone all in on C++20 features.
19:03 < luke-jr> surprised Nix lets you change the compiler just like that in the first place :o
19:03 < roconnor> what do you mean?
19:04 < luke-jr> well, Guix was refusing to let me use my existing system compiler to bootstrap
19:04 < sipa> does the linux kernel use any memcmp?
19:04 < roconnor> also llvm 9.0.1 seems to have a test case that fails when built with gcc 8.  that ones seems weird.
19:04 < luke-jr> sipa: yes, even __builtin_memcmp :/
19:04 < luke-jr> sipa: I'm afraid to build with my hacked GCC 9.3
19:05 < luke-jr> (in case it depends on the builtin for cases where there's no libc)
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19:08 < roconnor> luke-jr: https://gist.github.com/roconnor/2b8e22e829ed80088ed6690cc3c7f3a8 is my nix overlay that is sufficent to purge gcc 9 from my system.
19:09 < fanquake> MarcoFalke: FYI the bot seems to have run out of disk: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19868#issuecomment-698680164
19:09 < roconnor> But I think I want to try again with a bug patched version of gcc 10.
19:13 < roconnor> luke-jr: in an ideal world the overly would just be gcc = self.gcc8.  But unfortunately it isn't quite as easy as it should be.  I need to switch gfortan which openblas uses, and this weird gccFun thing seems to be requires to build nix itself with gcc 8, etc.
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 25 00:00:30 2020