--- Log opened Thu Nov 19 00:00:06 2020
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00:26 < wumpus2> i didn't actually label rc1 yet
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00:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 commit to 0.21: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6cde7bb9b26c...80496f9e8116
00:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.21 80496f9 Wladimir J. van der Laan: build: Set msvc builds's CLIENT_VERSION_IS_RELEASE
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00:54 < wumpus> the make-tag script can now check all you favorite extra msvc build version strings too https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-maintainer-tools/pull/66/files
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01:21 < MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic 0.20.2
01:22 < wumpus> sure can we first do 0.21.0rc1
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01:28 < MarcoFalke> I'd guess it makes sense to do them at approximately the same time, so that gitian builders can run both in a row
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01:40 < wumpus> sure
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01:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ea7926527ce3...cddcd22ab326
01:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dd7b5f4 Jon Atack: script: fix deprecation warning in makeseeds.py
01:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 961f148 Jon Atack: doc: update contrib/seeds/README dnspython installation info
01:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cddcd22 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20288: script, doc: contrib/seeds updates
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01:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20288: script, doc: contrib/seeds updates (master...contrib-seeds-fixups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20288
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02:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cddcd22ab326...888c22e0dd35
02:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6c7e8f0 Carl Dong: depends: Allow relative CONFIG_SITE path env var
02:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 618cbd2 Carl Dong: lint: Also lint files with shellcheck directive
02:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46756a6 Carl Dong: depends: Fix PYTHONPATH setting in config.site.in
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02:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20359: depends: Various config.site.in improvements and linting  (master...2020-11-config-site-cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20359
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02:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/888c22e0dd35...47b6ad837c07
02:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7087440 fanquake: depends: native_ds_store 1.3.0
02:39 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 47b6ad8 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20333: build: remove native_biplist dependency
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02:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20333: build: remove native_biplist dependency (master...no_more_biplist) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20333
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02:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/47b6ad837c07...e12ad7f38346
02:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d9141a0 Anthony Towns: doc: clarify CRollingBloomFilter size estimate
02:45 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e12ad7f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19968: doc: clarify CRollingBloomFilter size estimate
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02:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19968: doc: clarify CRollingBloomFilter size estimate (master...bloom-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19968
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02:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e12ad7f38346...fbb2bee82d83
02:51 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6f4e393 Sebastian Falbesoner: refactor: remove use of boost::algorithm::replace_first
02:51 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fbb2bee Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20067: refactor: remove use of boost::algorithm::replace_first
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02:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20067: refactor: remove use of boost::algorithm::replace_first (master...20201003-get-rid-of-boost-replace_first) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20067
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02:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild closed pull request #20000: test: fix creation of "std::string"s with \0s (master...fix_base32_tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20000
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02:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild reopened pull request #20000: test: fix creation of "std::string"s with \0s (master...fix_base32_tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20000
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03:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fbb2bee82d83...1cc5e693c186
03:00 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 330cb33 Fabrice Fontaine: src/randomenv.cpp: fix build on uclibc
03:00 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1cc5e69 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20358: src/randomenv.cpp: fix build on uclibc
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03:00 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20358: src/randomenv.cpp: fix build on uclibc (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20358
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03:09 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1cc5e693c186...d9180c50b689
03:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 355d0c4 Karl-Johan Alm: contrib: add getcoins.py script to get coins from (signet) faucet
03:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e9c8e6e Karl-Johan Alm: doc: add contrib/signet readme
03:09 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d9180c5 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20145: contrib: add getcoins.py script to get coins from (signet) f...
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03:10 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20145: contrib: add getcoins.py script to get coins from (signet) faucet (master...202010-signet-getcoins) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20145
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03:17 < Kiminuo> MarcoFalke, Hi Marco, could you say whether it's worth working on std::fs at this time? You have, I think, mentioned that `std::fs` is not supported by some OSs. So I just want to know whether it makes sense to work on this or let it wait a few months or a few years for next upgrade (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19245#issuecomment-730291399)
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03:19 < MarcoFalke> It would mean that compilation on Ubuntu 18.04 no longer works, I think
03:19 < MarcoFalke> I might have to check again
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03:22 < Kiminuo> Thanks for info
03:24 < wumpus> no opinion on timespan but one thing to be really careful with when transitioning to std::fs is that the unicode character subtleties still work, across OSes 
03:25 < wumpus> including interaction between Qt and it, especially on windows there has been a history of issues there
03:26 < wumpus> unfortunately, locale stuff tends to be really awful in C standard libraries
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03:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d9180c50b689...9ab9665c74dd
03:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 32def8d Peter Bushnell: Catch ios_base::failure specifically
03:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7486e27 Bushstar: Tests: Unit test related to WalletDB ReadKeyValue
03:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9ab9665 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #15710: wallet: Catch ios_base::failure specifically
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03:34 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #15710: wallet: Catch ios_base::failure specifically (master...walletdb-readthrow) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15710
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03:41 < Kiminuo> wumpus, Yes, I have tried to collect PRs for "fs" to see what the issues were. I can only say that it *tentatively seems* that std::fs behaves nicer wrt unicode than Boost. But it will be a long ride and maybe I'm wrong. It's hard to guess at this point.
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05:20 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9ab9665c74dd...71d068db4058
05:20 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa19bb2 MarcoFalke: remove dead rpc code
05:20 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faaf9c5 MarcoFalke: remove CRPCCommand constructor that takes rpcfn_type function pointer
05:20 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 71d068d MarcoFalke: Merge #18531: rpc: remove deprecated CRPCCommand constructor
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05:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18531: rpc: remove deprecated CRPCCommand constructor (master...2004-rpcMan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18531
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05:25 < Kiminuo> https://stackoverflow.com/a/53531186 - It seems, you can compile Bitcoin codebase on Ubuntu 18.04 with std::filesystem only with GCC 8.
05:25 < Kiminuo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/dependencies.md - mentions that the lowest supported GCC version is 7.
05:25 < Kiminuo> So this is a problem.
05:26 < Kiminuo> MarcoFalke, I have verified that vanilla Ubuntu 18.04 reports: filesystem: No such file or directory
05:26 < Kiminuo>  #include <filesystem>
05:26 < Kiminuo> So I guess. That's game over :)
05:26 < MarcoFalke> At some point we'll drop compile support for 18.04
05:27 < MarcoFalke> Maybe 23.0?
05:27 < Kiminuo> Yeah, that's what I mean. Game over until then.
05:27 < MarcoFalke> Can bionic clang compile it?
05:27 < Kiminuo> That's beyond my capability to try.
05:28 < MarcoFalke> https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/clang-10
05:28 < MarcoFalke> apt install clang-10 llvm-10 && ./configure CC=clang-10 CXX=clang-10++ && make
05:28 < Kiminuo> thanks
05:30 < MarcoFalke> std::fs is in clang-7, I think. So it should work
05:31 < Kiminuo> https://pastebin.com/hMM1DbrV I'm getting this with " ./configure CC=clang-10 CXX=clang-10++"
05:32 < Kiminuo> https://pastebin.com/HLHmF5Me config.log 
05:35 < hebasto> bionic has g++-8 package in its repo https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/devel/g++-8
05:36 < MarcoFalke> hebasto: Good point
05:36 < hebasto> and version 8.4 should be enough for std::filesystem as it was introduced in 8.1
05:37 < MarcoFalke> oh, it is called clang++-10
05:41 < Kiminuo> hebasto, https://github.com/kiminuo/bitcoin/tree/feature/2020-11-19-replace-boost-filesystem-with-cpp17-filesystem could you possibly try that on Ubuntu 18.04, if you have one?
05:41 < Kiminuo> I'm trying but I can't get rid of the C++ compiler cannot create executables
05:41 < Kiminuo> error
05:42 < Kiminuo> It looks like I have broken my Ubuntu 18.04 :)
05:43 < Kiminuo> Still trying though
05:43 < MarcoFalke> will try. One sec
05:43 < Kiminuo> thank you
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05:49 < Kiminuo>  ./configure CC=clang-10 CXX=clang++-10  BDB_LIBS="-L${BDB_PREFIX}/lib -ldb_cxx-4.8" BDB_CFLAGS="-I${BDB_PREFIX}/include" reports now:
05:49 < Kiminuo> ./logging.h:108:38: error: expected expression
05:49 < Kiminuo>         std::list<std::function<void(const std::string&)>>::iterator PushBackCallback(std::function<void(const std::string&)> fun)
05:49 < Kiminuo>                                      ^
05:53 < MarcoFalke> Checked "g++ (Ubuntu 7.5.0-3ubuntu1~18.04)" fails as expected. Checked g++-8 works.
05:54 < MarcoFalke> Kiminuo: You are missing an #include functional
05:54 < Kiminuo> ok, interesting
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06:07 < wumpus> Kiminuo: glad to hear that it doesn't seem worse at first glance :)
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06:11 < wumpus> I guess supporting two file system backends is a bit too much or we could have a period in which it's possible to choose 
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06:14 < Kiminuo> wumpus, supporting two file system libraries is difficult and probably a little bit dangerous (due to small differences)
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06:15 < Kiminuo> well, it's hard to let users to choose. There's no selling point for that.
06:15 < Kiminuo> Either Boost filesystem is better or std::filesystem is better. 
06:15 < wumpus> it was the original idea behind fs.h, and we need to be aware of the differences anyhow, but yea
06:16 < wumpus> it's not as much of a drop-in replacement as thought at the time
06:16 < Kiminuo> right, but it brings more complexity and I'm not sure if there is any benefit. I don't see any
06:17 < wumpus> well one is that the std::fs using code would already be tested at the time it becomes mandatory, less of a 'flag day'
06:18 < MarcoFalke> Anyone mind to ACK https://github.com/bitcoin-core/univalue/pull/24 ?
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06:20 < Kiminuo> wumpus, for that to work, you would need to wrap more functions in fs.h, then it would work as you say. If that's what you mean.
06:20 < wumpus> MarcoFalke:done
06:20 < Kiminuo> And that would be probably useful
06:20 < MarcoFalke> thx
06:21 < Kiminuo> because it would also nicely show what the differences between those fs implementations are
06:21 < wumpus> Kiminuo: yes, the idea would be for fs.h to encapsulate the differences as much of possible
06:21 < Kiminuo> right, I finally understand. Sorry.
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06:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/71d068db4058...7aa94569ce1a
06:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ea93bbe practicalswift: init: Fix incorrect warning "Reducing -maxconnections from N to N-1, becau...
06:33 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7aa9456 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20024: init: Fix incorrect warning "Reducing -maxconnections from N...
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06:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20024: init: Fix incorrect warning "Reducing -maxconnections from N to N-1, because of system limitations" (master...fix-incorrect-warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20024
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06:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7aa94569ce1a...c4d1e24f5480
06:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 136d96b Sebastian Falbesoner: test: use wait_for_{block,header} helpers in p2p_fingerprint.py
06:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6b56c1f Sebastian Falbesoner: test: remove last_{block,header}_equals() in p2p_fingerprint.py
06:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c4d1e24 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20047: test: use wait_for_{block,header} helpers in p2p_fingerprint...
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06:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20047: test: use wait_for_{block,header} helpers in p2p_fingerprint.py (master...20200930-test-use-wait-for-block-header-in-fingerprint-py) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20047
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06:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20424: build: Update univalue subtree (master...2011-subtreeUnivalue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20424
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07:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow closed pull request #20025: validation/util: add GetTransactionFee (master...2020-09-getfee) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20025
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07:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c4d1e24f5480...884bde510e2d
07:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eefe194 John Newbery: [net] Consolidate logic around calling CAddrMan::Connected()
07:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0bfce9d John Newbery: [addrman] Fix Connected() comment
07:32 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 884bde5 MarcoFalke: Merge #20291: [net] Consolidate logic around calling CAddrMan::Connected()...
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07:33 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20291: [net] Consolidate logic around calling CAddrMan::Connected() (master...2020-11-consolidate-addrman-connect) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20291
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07:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/884bde510e2d...848d66519c39
07:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0000a0c MarcoFalke: Remove confusing and almost useless "unexpected version" warning
07:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 848d665 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20054: Remove confusing and useless "unexpected version" warning
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07:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20054: Remove confusing and useless "unexpected version" warning (master...2010-valRemVerWarn) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20054
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07:40 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/848d66519c39...04670ef81ea2
07:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 21f2433 Michael Dietz: test: run mempool_spend_coinbase.py even with wallet disabled
07:40 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 04670ef Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20385: test: run mempool_spend_coinbase.py even with wallet disable...
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07:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20385: test: run mempool_spend_coinbase.py even with wallet disabled (master...mempool-tests-to-miniwallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20385
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08:25 < wumpus> can someone please check if this minor documentation change is correct: #20329
08:25 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20329 | docs/descriptors.md: Remove hardened marker in the path after xpub by dgpv · Pull Request #20329 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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09:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/04670ef81ea2...db58b857f77a
09:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dc80a7d Dmitry Petukhov: docs/descriptors.md: Remove hardened marker in the path after xpub
09:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master db58b85 MarcoFalke: Merge #20329: docs/descriptors.md: Remove hardened marker in the path afte...
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09:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20329: docs/descriptors.md: Remove hardened marker in the path after xpub (master...fix-descriptors-md-hardened-after-xpub) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20329
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09:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #20425: fuzz: Make addrman fuzzing harness deterministic (master...fuzzers-make-addrman-harness-deterministic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20425
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09:58 < hebasto> jonasschnelli: MarcoFalke: could https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/46 be considered early for 0.22 to make compiling on macos more pleasant?
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10:06 < bitcoin-git> [gui] MarcoFalke merged pull request #46: refactor: Fix deprecation warnings when building against Qt 5.15 (master...200809-depr) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/46
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10:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/db58b857f77a...0a267f4eb885
10:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b02264c Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Fix 'QDateTime is deprecated' warnings
10:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5749c Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Fix 'pixmap is deprecated' warnings
10:06 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8e12d69 Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Fix 'QFlags is deprecated' warnings
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10:07 < hebasto> MarcoFalke: thanks!
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10:21 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #20426: wallet: allow zero-fee fundrawtransaction/walletcreatefundedpsbt and other fixes (master...fee_rate_followups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20426
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11:00 < MarcoFalke> hi
11:00 < fjahr> hi
11:00 < hebasto> hi
11:00 < wumpus> #startmeeting
11:00 < core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 19 19:00:41 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
11:00 < core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
11:00 < kanzure> hi
11:01 < jonasschnelli> hi
11:01 < wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
11:01 < wumpus> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
11:01 < jonatack> hi
11:01 < luke-jr> hi
11:01 < achow101> hi
11:01 < sipa> hi
11:01 < wumpus> there is one proposed meeting topic for this week: 0.20.2 (MarcoFalke)
11:01 < miketwenty1> hi
11:02 < murch> hi
11:02 < wumpus> I wanted to tag rc1 today but apparently some things have been tagge 0.21 since: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.21.0
11:03 < wumpus> I guess if these are really urgent, please help reviewing them
11:03 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: Don't worry abou those. They are minor RPC inconsistencies
11:03 < hebasto> the tagged for backporting, no?
11:03 < wumpus> if not, let's move them to the 0.21.1 milestone instead
11:04 < luke-jr> wumpus: feature_segwit test is failing too
11:04 < MarcoFalke> I am sure we will find more issus for rc2
11:04 < sipa> inconsistencies in newly introduced stuff?
11:04 < jnewbery> hi
11:04 < MarcoFalke> sipa: The feerate things ...
11:04 < luke-jr> sipa: what we discussed the other night
11:04 < sipa> sounds like it - if so i think we'll want those in 0.21 anyway i guess
11:04 < murch> Sending feerates were restricted to >0 instead of >=0
11:05 < murch> mea culpa, I missed it in the review
11:05 < MarcoFalke> Also, "" == null 0==null
11:05 < MarcoFalke> and the third one a minor issue with upgradewallet
11:05 < sipa> no objection to doing rc1 without them in that case, but if it means there'll be an rc2 anyway.... up to wumpus i guess
11:05 < wumpus> anyhow right now they're holding up the release
11:05 < luke-jr> more of a beta1 than a rc1 in that case :P
11:05 < MarcoFalke> I'd be highly surprised if this was the first major release with just one rc
11:06 < sipa> ha, fair
11:06 < MarcoFalke> we'll find more bugs, don't worry
11:06 < wumpus> anyhow merging the feerate last minute was probaly ill advised so I understand if last minute issues came up
11:06 < sipa> luke-jr: i wonder why you're the only one hitting this
11:06 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: It had to be merged (or everything reverted)
11:06 < sipa> luke-jr: is signing or hashing particularly slow on your system?
11:06 < luke-jr> wumpus: well, it was really a bugfix for the explicit fee rate mess merged months ago
11:06 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, but it should have been merged sooner in the release cycle
11:06 < luke-jr> sipa: I saw it on CI too?
11:06 < sipa> oh, ok
11:06 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: Agree
11:06 < jonatack> I think they've been addressed and those PRs are close to RFM. There is a lot of test coverage in place now, which helps.
11:07 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: feature_taproot?
11:07 < luke-jr> sipa: no reason it would be - I have 16 SMT4 cores
11:07 < sipa> MarcoFalke: there is a simple fix; aj posted one the other day, i think an even simpler one is possible
11:07 < sipa> i'll PR soon
11:07 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: This release is the heavies ever in features merged per time, I think
11:07 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Thx, I'll ack
11:07 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: yes, sorry
11:08 < MarcoFalke> so the delay was expected
11:08 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, seems like it :)
11:08 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: looks like it simply builds a huge wallet and then times out in coin selection
11:08 < sipa> yeah, or quadratic hashing of legacy spends
11:08 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: No coin selection. It is signrawtxwithwallet
11:08 < MarcoFalke> (or a bug in the wallet)
11:09 < luke-jr> I thoguht it was the create
11:09 < wumpus> it fails on 0.21 branch but not on master?
11:09 < aj> sipa, luke-jr: want me to PR that patch?
11:09 < luke-jr> aj: sgtm
11:09 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: It fails on slow CPUs ;)
11:09 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: my CPU is nothing close to slow..
11:10 < MarcoFalke> CI should be unaffected, because it has the timeouts cranked up to max
11:10 < wumpus> I haven't noticed any tests failing on master but haven't locally run the tests for the 0.21 branch yet
11:10 < wumpus> (because there is no divergence yet)
11:10 < achow101> I've had feature_taproot fail occasionally, but only with the test runner
11:10 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Its not intel, so it doesn't have the speedup-backdoors
11:10 < sipa> that could be it
11:11 < MarcoFalke> And running test_runner with high --jobs might also cause it
11:11 < sipa> SHA-NI hashing is a lot faster
11:11 < achow101> MarcoFalke: that's what I ran into
11:11 < jonatack> achow101: same here
11:11 < wumpus> it would definitely be good to not have the tests dependent on specific intel optimizations :)
11:12 < sipa> it's just silly
11:12 < luke-jr> aj's optimisation seems like a good idea even with longer timeouts
11:12 < sipa> we could also split the test in two, and run it once for post-activation and once for pre-activation
11:12 < michaelfolkson> sipa said he runs -j60. I'm assuming that is too high. Something like -j5 better?
11:13 < luke-jr> lol?
11:13 < wumpus> disable-all-timeouts mode would be useful in that case xD
11:13 < michaelfolkson> Or that's what I remembered. Am I remembering incorrectly...?
11:13 < sipa> -j60 works fine here
11:13 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: The ci runs it, but we can't enable that locally
11:13 < sipa> and seems around the fastest in overall clock time
11:13 < luke-jr> michaelfolkson: as long as -j is set sensibly, the number itself shouldn't make problems
11:14 < MarcoFalke> I guess we can scale the timeout with --jobs
11:14 < jonatack> michaelfolkson: i've adopted -j60 since sipa mentioned it, and added the suggestion as an option to try in the compile guide
11:14 < luke-jr> I was getting it 100% of the time, with just the one test
11:14 < wumpus> I'm not sure that needs to be done automatically, but instructions on how to do it for people running into timeouts would be useful
11:15 < sipa> luke-jr: i think it's fair to say the test is just broken, and it's masked by the fact that almost everyone runs it on hardware where SHA256 is sufficiently optimized to mask the issue
11:16 < jonatack> michaelfolkson: (not for make, just for running the functional suite)
11:16 < wumpus> hehe
11:16 < MarcoFalke> Jup, each raise of a timeout error could mention "You can use --timeout_factor to scale the timeouts"
11:16 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: but it shouldn't be necessary
11:16 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: good idea!
11:16 < aj> sipa: seems like there's something wrong with signrawtx in that it's taking 20s (for me) or 30s+ (for luke) as well though
11:16 < sipa> luke-jr: https://0bin.net/paste/yldL+QX5#hXq0n10PZrK9flMwh2313ueXFAQjPBE2+VaWvKNO+bB
11:16 < luke-jr> if a test hits it normally, that means the timeout is too low
11:16 < michaelfolkson> jonatack: Let me try make with -j60... :)
11:17 < miketwenty1> does -j1 or no -j flag fail?
11:17 < MarcoFalke> with enough ram you can do -j 999
11:17 < sipa> miketwenty1: -j1 is just painfully slow
11:17 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: I was running the test by itself, nothing else
11:17 < sipa> aj: quadratic hashing of enormous (non-standard!) transactions is a known issue
11:17 < miketwenty1> i know it's slow i've compiled bitcoin like 5 times today with no -j flag
11:17 < wumpus> the thing with test timeouts (especially for CPU intensive ones) is that it's kind of a random barrel shoot, you can always have a slower machine where it fails
11:17 < MarcoFalke> sipa: That patch would still fail intermittently
11:18 < sipa> MarcoFalke: how so?
11:18 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: alias make='make -j60'
11:18 < MarcoFalke> sec ...
11:18 < jonatack> miketwenty1: use ccache? see doc/productivity.md
11:18 < jonatack> miketwenty1: also build only what you need
11:18 < miketwenty1> the hardware that's compiling is purposely small  
11:18 < wumpus> alias invokeoomkiller='make -j60'
11:18 < luke-jr> wumpus: unless the timeout is set high enough it only fails when there's hanging
11:18 < luke-jr> wumpus: lol
11:18 < luke-jr> ok, I really do make -j32
11:19 < MarcoFalke> sipa: Maybe coin selection picking only the small coins?
11:19 < luke-jr> (but having it aliased really helps me use it)
11:20 < sipa> MarcoFalke: how would it fail?
11:20 < miketwenty1> what is the logical way to calculate how many threads or the -j<n> count you can use for a machine?
11:20 < MarcoFalke> sipa: It picks a lot of small coins, which takes long to sign?
11:21 < MarcoFalke> coin selection isn't deterministic and the amounts in the test aren't either
11:21 < sipa> MarcoFalke: with just 70% of the balance there should be no need for many tiny coins
11:21 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: start with number of cores + 1
11:21 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: possibly including SMT in core count
11:21 < sipa> miketwenty1: for building, not more than your number of threads + 1, and assume around 1 GB of memory per -j
11:22 < wumpus> miketwenty1: in my experience it's about 1.5GB memory per -j, for the C++ build, for running the functional tests it's different though
11:22 < sipa> miketwenty1: for functional tests, you can go way higher than what your thread count permits
11:22 < MarcoFalke> sipa: I guess we could try
11:23 < michaelfolkson> miketwenty1: https://jonatack.github.io/articles/how-to-compile-bitcoin-core-and-run-the-tests
11:23 < sipa> MarcoFalke: afaik the pessimal behavior of coin selections only occurs when you're really close to the balance
11:23 < sipa> luke-jr: does my patch fix things for you? (aj's may work too, i think in general mine may be even faster)
11:23 < MarcoFalke> Anyway back to the 0.21 topic, I suggest to ship rc1 soon, so that testing can start
11:24 < wumpus> heh that's like with place and route on FPGAs
11:24 < luke-jr> sipa: too many worktrees open to test right now, maybe after meeting
11:24 < sipa> luke-jr: sure
11:24 < MarcoFalke> If we are lucky and no issues are found we can ship 0.21 early-mid december
11:24 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: so maybe do a rc1 without merging anything more?
11:24 < MarcoFalke> I'd say so
11:25 < wumpus> okay, going to tag it after the meeting
11:25 < sipa> wumpus: with the plan of doing an rc2 anyway?
11:25 < luke-jr> I'd call it beta1, but dunno how easy that is
11:25 < MarcoFalke> sipa: I'd say so too
11:25 < MarcoFalke> The fixups are just for edge-cases in the rpc
11:25 < sipa> indeed
11:25 < MarcoFalke> (and they have tests)
11:26 < wumpus> right, major versions tend to have 3-5 rcs anyway
11:26 < sipa> wumpus: if doing rc1 now is fine by you, it's fine by me
11:26 < wumpus> sure
11:26 < luke-jr> might want to add a "Known issues" to the announce
11:26 < luke-jr> so people don't report them
11:26 < wumpus> I intended to do the rc1 tag right after the branch but was distracted by some msvc version stuff xD
11:26 < sipa> MarcoFalke: did 17 runs with my patch, no failures
11:27 < MarcoFalke> sipa: It passed for you before, too
11:27 < MarcoFalke> luke-jr should test maybe overnight in a loop or so 
11:27 < jonatack> a propos editing the release notes in the wiki, istm that is still feasible until -final, right?
11:27 < MarcoFalke> jonatack: Jup
11:27 < wumpus> jonatack: yep
11:28 < MarcoFalke> About 0.20.2, we should ship that soon as well
11:28 < MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.21.0
11:28 < luke-jr> MarcoFalke: bonus: I have Chromium building now :P
11:28 < wumpus> #topic 0.20.2
11:28 < core-meetingbot> topic: 0.20.2
11:28 < MarcoFalke> ^ Though, those need review
11:28 < MarcoFalke> One is a trivial revert (empty diff can be reviewed by anyone)
11:29 < MarcoFalke> The other is a wallet fix, so needs the wallet people to take a look
11:29 < MarcoFalke> wrong milestone link (sry)
11:29 < wumpus> going back and forth on the wtxid relay is a bit ugly, but if there is no confidence in it anymore then it's good to revert it
11:30 < MarcoFalke> maybe this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/49
11:31 < MarcoFalke> #link https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/49
11:32 < wumpus> I remember it was quite a difficult merge in the first place, maybe we shouldn't have done it, but I remember some were saying it was really important to get it in at the time
11:32 < achow101> the wallet fix just does what we do in master. it's not quite a backport because we kind of got to this result in master by accident through 3 or so prs
11:32 < aj> wumpus: i think there's reasonable confidence, but there's no need for it anymore either
11:32 < wumpus> aj: what removed the need for it?
11:33 < sipa> wumpus: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20317#issuecomment-727624755
11:33 < MarcoFalke> achow101: Have the "3 or so prs" touched other parts than just this single function?
11:33 < achow101> MarcoFalke: yes
11:33 < aj> wumpus: #19620 which got backported to 0.19 and 0.20 after the wtxid backport PR was already open
11:33 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19620 | Add txids with non-standard inputs to reject filter by sdaftuar · Pull Request #19620 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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11:33 < MarcoFalke> achow101: That might make it harder to review
11:34 < aj> wumpus: (19680 and 19681 were the backports)
11:34 < wumpus> sipa: thanks
11:34 < jnewbery> wumpus: should be trivial to back it out. It wasn't actually too difficult to backapply, and as Marco says, if the diff after the revert is empty then it's a trivial ACK
11:35 < wumpus> jnewbery: yes, it's easy to revert (not much happend on the 0.20 branch since), I was just confused about the change in priorities suddenly
11:35 < jnewbery> wumpus: me too :)
11:36 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: I think there was confusion generally, and probably an assumption that no 0.20 release was planned any time soon
11:36 < wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, I do remember that we wanted to do the next 0.20 release after 0.21.0
11:36 < luke-jr> not so sure about the latter
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11:37 < MarcoFalke> wumpus: Jup, that was under the assumption that wtxid relay was going to be backported
11:37 < wumpus> in any case please review the revert and other PRs for 0.20.2
11:38 < wumpus> when they're merged we can tag 0.20.2rc1 as well
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11:39 < wumpus> any other topics?
11:39 < wumpus> I guess we can pick up high priority for review again
11:40 < wumpus> #topic High priority for review
11:40 < core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
11:40 < wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
11:40 < wumpus> is the current list still relevant?
11:41 < MarcoFalke> Can I add #19893 ?
11:41 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19893 | test: Remove or explain syncwithvalidationinterfacequeue by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #19893 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:41 < wumpus> sure
11:42 < jonasschnelli> I just removed #18242 (until the AEAD overhaul has been finalized)
11:42 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18242 | Add BIP324 encrypted p2p transport de-/serializer (only used in tests) by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #18242 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:42 < achow101> #20040 pls
11:43 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20040 | wallet: Refactor OutputGroups to handle fees and spending eligibility on grouping by achow101 · Pull Request #20040 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:45 < wumpus> achow101: jonasschnelli added
11:45 < jnewbery> I'd like to add #19910, which is next in the #19398 sequence
11:45 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19910 | net processing: Move peer_map to PeerManager by jnewbery · Pull Request #19910 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:45 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19398 | Move remaining application layer data to net processing · Issue #19398 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:46 < wumpus> jnewbery: added too
11:46 < jnewbery> thanks wumpus!
11:47 < wumpus> I think that concludes the meeting, thanks everyone
11:47 < wumpus> #endmeeting
11:47 < core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
11:47 < core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Nov 19 19:47:46 2020 UTC.  
11:47 < core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-11-19-19.00.moin.txt
11:48 < jonatack> o/
11:48 < nehan> 8
11:48 < luke-jr> 9
11:48 < nehan> oops.
11:49 < sipa> a
11:49 < achow101> rc1 soon?
11:49 < luke-jr> ♥ sipa
11:49 < aj> sipa: your fundrawtx patch seems to take 0.2s rather than 19.8s for me
11:51 < luke-jr> btw, 0bin is a nuisance for patches… :p
11:51 < sipa> luke-jr: use "copy to clipboard"; that avoids some formatting/indenting
11:52 < sipa> i want to try the patch on my odroid (as it also has unoptimized SHA256)... but it's been over a year since i logged into it and i have no idea what its password is
11:52 < sipa> i'm even more surprised it's still running
11:52 < luke-jr> sipa: yes, and then move the clipboard to my dev side, and can no longer see the patch URL in my BASH history. :/
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11:53 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed tag v0.21.0rc1: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.21.0rc1
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11:53 < wumpus> ^^
11:53 < achow101> \o/
11:53 < MarcoFalke> \o/
11:53 < hebasto> \o/
11:53 < sipa> \o/
11:53 < luke-jr> oh no
11:53 < luke-jr> jk
11:53 < emzy> YES!!!
12:00 < meshcollider> \o/
12:01 < emzy> powering up my build machine :)
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12:02 < emzy> And searching my physical PGP-key.
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12:06 < aj> sipa: if i change it from 70% to 99% it takes 1.5s instead
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12:07 < aj> sipa: but hmm, if i set it to 100% with subtraceFeeFromOutputs I get a "Transaction too large" error, so doesn't this just give the same behaviour as when sendtoaddress was used?
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12:08 < sipa> aj: oh, hmm.
12:08 < sipa> your approach may be better then
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12:09 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #20121: configure: Allow users to explicitly enable libsecp256k1's GMP bignum support (master...secp256k1_allow_bignum) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20121
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12:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #20428: tests: split feature_taproot transfer of funds into smaller txs (master...202011-test-taproot-signmany) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20428
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12:42 < luke-jr> sipa: aj: so what do I test now? or all done?
12:47 < aj> luke-jr: my patch is up at 20428 (above), re-test if you'd like but should be fine
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12:54 < luke-jr> tACK'd
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12:58 < luke-jr> aj: it'd be a clean merge to both branches if you rebase it onto fac865b72d5c0e01fce74b84ab21e5ebbf069327
12:58 < aj> sipa: hmmmm.... if i sort the unspends by amount first, i only need the top 500 of them to hit 70% (with ~4200 utxos remaining)
12:58 < sipa> aj: heh
12:59 < aj> sipa: top 500 seems to be about 90% of the value
12:59 < sipa> i think your first "top 500" is a typo
13:01 < aj> sipa: i was doing them in batches of 500, expecting i'd need more than one batch
13:03 < aj> luke-jr: rebased on top of the merge commit
13:04 < sipa> aj: you stated that the top 500 is both 70% and 90%... so i assume one of the two at least is wrong
13:05 < aj> sipa: it's just under 90%, but the first statement was nevertheless not a typo :)
13:06 < sipa> ok, not a typo, but still wrong?
13:06  * sipa very confused
13:06 < aj> sipa: i was rounding up to the nearest 500
13:11 < aj> sipa: (i'd tell you how many outputs were need for 70%, but i haven't worked it out yet. presumably it's 390ish?)
13:12 < sipa> <ultranitmode> rounding up, or rounding the nearest? </ultranitmode>
13:13 < aj> up, but i wanted to be clear i'm not skipping the next 500!
13:13 < aj> in case you thought the real answer was -300 coins were needed, i guess
13:21 < aj> sipa: 270 coins got me to 70%
13:22 < aj> sipa: so, sort lisunspent, take the 500 with highest amount, and be done with it maybe? or have a check that the top 500 are at least 70% of the total as well?
13:23 < sipa> aj: pretty sure you can take the top 10 outputs too, and be done with it :)
13:23 < sipa> only 10 transactions are performed with that amount
13:32 < miketwenty1> would this typically be the time people built, verified v0.21.0rc1 ? I would like to be signer going forward.
13:34 < sipa> miketwenty1: if you want to be a gitian signer for rc1, now is the time
13:35 < miketwenty1> sipa: hold on.. let me put my cape on..
13:35 < miketwenty1> k ready
13:35 < achow101> miketwenty1: yes
13:35 < miketwenty1> so.. i have gitian builds with 1 click.. only thing you need to specify is the tag.. and it builds with terraform module
13:36 < miketwenty1> im guessing this would belong in bitcoin-core or maybe personal repo
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13:47 < luke-jr> aj: does your simplification break if unrelated parts of the test change in the futrue?
13:47 < sipa> luke-jr: very unlikely
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14:17 < emzy> where do I get the Xcode-11.3.1-11C505-extracted-SDK-with-libcxx-headers.tar.gz for the gitian build?
14:20 < luke-jr> emzy: contrib/macdeploy/README.md
14:20 < luke-jr> emzy: be prepared for Apple "KYC"
14:20 < emzy> I have that :)
14:21 < emzy> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/docs/blob/master/gitian-building/gitian-building-mac-os-sdk.md is than outdated
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14:22 < achow101> emzy: yes
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14:54 < miketwenty1> this is my first time doing a complete terraform from scratch build of a bitcoin with gitian process.. can someone tell me if they also got 073aaacb86e8898c4806ed10cd14d54869f31e353f86b60bb83f93ae89a3591d for  bitcoin-0.21.0rc1-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz
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14:59 < achow101> miketwenty1: you can check against https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs
15:00 < miketwenty1> aww didn't know people were already sending them up
15:00 < miketwenty1> achow101: nice looks like we got the same result.. gives me confidence in this process i made
15:01 < emzy> 073aaacb86e8898c4806ed10cd14d54869f31e353f86b60bb83f93ae89a3591d  bitcoin-0.21.0rc1-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz
15:01 < emzy> match
15:01 < achow101> there's also a verify command you can run
15:01 < miketwenty1> verify against people who have already uploaded right?
15:02 < achow101> yes
15:02 < miketwenty1> didn't know you already updated lol
15:02 < miketwenty1> along with 1 other, hebasto
15:02 < emzy> I'm still on the macos build.
15:02 < achow101> my build runs pretty quickly :)
15:07 < emzy> Now that I have the right xcode version it will be ready soon :)
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15:45 < miketwenty1> yeah i see we both have PR's open 
15:46 < miketwenty1> why does win have the postfix "unsigned" ? even though we are signing it
15:46 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: it's referring to the OS vendor signature
15:46 < luke-jr> that's a 2nd step
15:47 < sipa> yeah, there'll be a -signed version later, once the signature (of the unsigned one) is posted
15:49 < miketwenty1> im confused.. like microsoft needs to create public signature for their OS that gitian process is using to create build?]
15:49 < sipa> miketwenty1: no, cory (who has the codesigning key) creates the signature
15:49 < sipa> unfortunately there isn't really a distributed way to do OS codesigning
15:49 < miketwenty1> who does it for linux?
15:50 < sipa> linux doesn't have codesigning
15:50 < miketwenty1> is that due to it being oss?
15:50 < miketwenty1> im not really following this
15:50 < luke-jr> sipa: well, it does, but the distros do it normally
15:50 < luke-jr> and it isn't using gitian
15:50 < sipa> right, and it's done at the package manager leve
15:51 < sipa> not at the binary level
15:51 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: basically the Windows/macOS signing is to get around [soft] DRM
15:51 < luke-jr> miketwenty1: without it, the OS will give users an ugly warning
15:51 < emzy> is there a doku how to produce the -signed versions?
15:52 < luke-jr> emzy: there's another gitian .yml
15:52 < luke-jr> that injects the signature
15:52 < miketwenty1> i see so this is when users run the .exe they will get a warning if it's "not verified" kinda thing?
15:52 < luke-jr> also, I don't think Cory has the key anymore… but I'm not sure how public it is who does
15:52 < sipa> miketwenty1: yes, that's its only purpose
15:52 < luke-jr> the principle is 3 gitian signers before the signature is produced
15:53 < miketwenty1> well we have 2 in bitcoin-core and emzy and i have PR's :)
15:53 < fanquake> achow has it #18425
15:53 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18425 | releases: Update with new Windows code signing certificate by achow101 · Pull Request #18425 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
15:53 < sipa> ah oops
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15:57 < emzy> luke-jr: tnx. I will take a look tomorrow.
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16:01 < miketwenty1> aww i see.. "it must be signed by a recognized certificate authority. Anyone who distributes malware under a valid certificate is held legally accountable for the software they distribute."
16:01 < miketwenty1> makes sense
16:03 < miketwenty1> so you would sign the binaries and places like bitcoin-core.org would have access to achow101's signed exe.. if i follow
16:04 < sipa> all the release binaries are signed
16:05 < sipa> but they're created in a 3-step gitian process; (a) people build and agree on an unsigned build (b) achow signs the binary that comes out and publishes the signature (c) people create a signed build by combining their unsigned binaries with the posted signature
16:05 < miketwenty1> i look forward to learning the process of (c)
16:06 < sipa> it's just gitian
16:06 < miketwenty1> what does that mean? "automated"?
16:06 < sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win.yml for the unsigned build, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win-signer.yml for the signed one
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16:10 < bitcoin-git> [gui] RandyMcMillan opened pull request #133: qt: amend .gitignore (master...gitignore) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/133
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16:14 < luke-jr> [00:01:06] <miketwenty1> aww i see.. "it must be signed by a recognized certificate authority. Anyone who distributes malware under a valid certificate is held legally accountable for the software they distribute."
16:14 < luke-jr> has that held up?
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16:27 < miketwenty1> luke-jr: no idear.. i read from here https://www.venafi.com/education-center/code-signing/what-is-code-signing
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16:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #20429: refactor: replace (sizeof(a)/sizeof(a[0]) with C++17 std::size (master...20201119-refactor-replace-sizeof-by-std_size) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20429
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16:57 < achow101> miketwenty1: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md describes the entire release process with the gitian-build.py script doing most of the actual commands
16:57 < achow101> you should have a read through of that
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17:01 < miketwenty1> achow101: thanks for the link i looked at this earlier but missed the section "After 3 or more people have gitian-built and their results match: " .. now that 3 PR's have been pulled in.. and mine has been sitting as the 4th.. i should probably do this bit?
17:03 < achow101> that's for the release maintainer to do
17:03 < achow101> Currently we are basically at the "Next steps" header
17:04 < achow101> right where it says "codesigner only"
17:04 < miketwenty1> makes sense
17:05 < sipa> specifically, you are now at the "Non-codesigners: wait for Windows/macOS detached signatures:" stage
17:05 < achow101> the builders stop at the end of that section, after pushing their sigs for the gitian.sigs repo
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18:26  * luke-jr wonders if we should be trying to add support for Apple ARM systems
18:37 < wumpus> luke-jr: #17920
18:37 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17920 | guix: Build support for macOS by dongcarl · Pull Request #17920 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
18:38 < wumpus> also #12557
18:38 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12557 | [WIP] 64 bit iOS device support by Sjors · Pull Request #12557 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
18:38 < fanquake> There should be a few updates on the macOS Guix front shortly
18:38 < luke-jr> wumpus: don't see anything there related?
18:39 < luke-jr> wumpus: I mean macOS ARM
18:39 < luke-jr> that they just started selling recently
18:39 < wumpus> no idea then
18:40 < wumpus> macos ARM used to be iOS 
18:40 < wumpus> I don't exactly keep day to day track of what apple is doing fwiw :-)
18:40 < sipa> are they actually for sale already?
18:40 < sipa> i thought they were just announced
18:41 < wumpus> but of course, if that becomes their new architecture then we should support that too
18:42 < fanquake> according to the apple website I can buy one now
18:42 < achow101> they're on sale now
18:42 < sipa> i just mean it's probably hard to for us test anything as long as none of us have hardware
18:43 < sipa> unless there is some sort of simulator
18:43 < achow101> I thought provoostenator got the dev kit
18:43 < sipa> ah cool
18:43 < achow101> in theory we shouldn't need to do anything for now because of their x86 emulator
18:44 < luke-jr> achow101: good luck with IBD
18:45 < luke-jr> x86->ARM isn't going to be like m68k->PPC or PPC->x86
18:45 < luke-jr> even if they got comparable performance, emulation is going to have a very noticable impact, especially on CPU-intensive work
18:45 < wumpus> native build is going to be easy, I expect, building for ARM is also not a challenge, the difficult part is likely what new things need to be reverse engineered to cross-compile for it from gitian
18:46 < wumpus> e.g. for their SDKs and strange toolkits
18:46 < luke-jr> wumpus: I kinda wonder if we can just change the CHOST target…
18:46 < luke-jr> I guess probably need to update the Xcode too
18:46 < wumpus> new kinds of 'fat executables' maybe !
18:46 < luke-jr> ugh
18:46 < fanquake> "Universal binaries"
18:46 < luke-jr> true, I guess we probably can't just ship two different DMGs? XD
18:48 < achow101> they might be enforcing notarization for arm things too?
18:48 < luke-jr> that'd suck
18:49 < luke-jr> I guess in that case we have no choice but to go along with it
18:49 < luke-jr> firstrun dialog warning users of Apple'
18:49 < luke-jr> 's privacy violations?
18:49 < wumpus> they really should have skipped ARM and went straight to RISC-V, of course this means they'll have to go through the process again in a few years :-)
18:50 < luke-jr> why would Apple care to go RISC-V?
18:51 < wumpus> I wasn't entirely serious
18:51 < wumpus> buut just there seems to be some kind of pattern there
18:52 < sipa> the licensing costs and closedness of ARM isn't an issue for them :)
18:52 < achow101> they've been making arm chips for years now
18:53 < sipa> also that
18:53 < luke-jr> I wonder if they're dropping x86 simply to consolidate back to 1 arch
18:53 < achow101> dunno about consolidate, but it's definitely to make the walled garden even more walled
18:54  * luke-jr ponders if there's any decompilers that take advantage of multiple archs
18:55 < achow101> wdym by "take advantage"?
18:56 < wumpus> yes it makes sense from an economic point of view, ARM chips are produced at much larger quantities, it's probably just a lot cheaper for them
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18:57 < luke-jr> achow101: presumably it could infer more about the code
18:57 < luke-jr> maybe not enough to be worth the additional effort tho
18:57 < wumpus> why would you want to decompile apple's garbage anyway
18:57  * luke-jr shrugs
18:57 < luke-jr> it's the kind of thing you'd only do for fun
18:58 < wumpus> heh
18:58 < achow101> luke-jr: there's decompilers for a lot of archs
18:58 < luke-jr> achow101: not quite the same thing
18:58 < achow101> not sure what you mean then
18:58 < luke-jr> achow101: I mean looking at both the x86 and ARM builds of the same thing, to give better decompilation output
18:59 < achow101> ah. the decompilers I know of only take one binary at a time so they can't do that
18:59 < luke-jr> right
18:59 < wumpus> I do understand luke-jr's point, if you have the guarantee that the same source code is compiled to different architectures and binary formats, that might help learning more about it because the compiler might do slightly different (but deterministic) things
19:02 < wumpus> that said, the point of decompilation is rarely to reconstruct as much as possible about the original code, just to have a easier to read representation than assembly language
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19:03 < sipa> if decompilers could do that, i'm sure they'd try
19:04 < sipa> actually, maybe not, if it were possible to reconstruct something that was more readable than the original code, but not identical, they'd do that
19:04 < wumpus> I read something funny about Turbo C 2.0 (or similar) once, that compiler generated such predictable code that it's possible to reconstruct the original C code (besides variable names and comments ofc)
19:05 < wumpus> sipa: exactly :)
19:05 < luke-jr> [02:57:55] <luke-jr> it's the kind of thing you'd only do for fun
19:05 < sipa> in such i world i expect proprietary software to be littered with dummy inline assembly
19:06 < wumpus> there is the business case 'I lost the source code and want to reconstruct it' but I expect it's a fairly rare use of decompilers, most use is for figuring out malware 
19:06 < sipa> wumpus: do you know openttd?
19:06 < wumpus> sipa: yes!
19:07 < luke-jr> wumpus: meh, don't really even need a decompiler for that
19:07 < wumpus> didn't know it was based on decompilation though
19:07 < luke-jr> last time I cracked DRM, it was trivial to work from objdump
19:07 < achow101> only time i've used a decompiler is for a ctf
19:07 < wumpus> luke-jr: no on 'needs' a decompiler, it's kind of a luxury but can definitely speed up things (for people that have to do that work all day)
19:07 < luke-jr> capture the flag?
19:08 < achow101> yes
19:08 < luke-jr> wumpus: well, it didn't take even an hour
19:08 < luke-jr> achow101: how do you ctf with a decompiler? O.o
19:08 < wumpus> sure, of course...
19:08 < miketwenty1> achow101: have you ever done the ctf's at defcon?
19:08 < luke-jr> I basically changed a memcmp call to printf or something
19:08 < wumpus> 'I can do it all from the raw hex, blindfolded!'
19:09 < achow101> luke-jr: reverse engineering challenge
19:09 < sipa> wumpus: yeah, i think openttd contains large parts of decompiled transport tycoon deluxe code
19:09 < achow101> miketwenty1: no. i've only done some online ones and the one my university ran
19:11 < miketwenty1> is https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-keys/keys.txt up to date? like are these the people to have ever done gpg signed gitian builds?
19:11 < miketwenty1> i ask because i noticed emzy isn't on there
19:12 < wumpus> miketwenty1: the idea is that people add themselves
19:12 < miketwenty1> k
19:12 < fanquake> after they’ve done a number of builds
19:13 < miketwenty1> is there a magic number before i should add myself fanquake?
19:13 < wumpus> if emzy is building but not on there you could prod them to add themselves
19:13 < wumpus> 3 or so 
19:13 < achow101> emzy is there, but maybe that's a different key?
19:14 < miketwenty1> ohh maybe emzy is there.. but i was looking at the names.. 
19:14 < luke-jr> XD
19:14 < miketwenty1> nvm
19:14 < fanquake> Yea 2 or 3. I’m pretty sure it’s in the docs
19:14 < miketwenty1> Stephan Oeste (Emzy)
19:15 < sipa> ah, so the Apple ARM stuff needs macOS 11, not 10.x
19:15 < miketwenty1> i just got done watching mandalorian.. im thinking if i get my name on this list i can get my beskar armor
19:15 < sipa> so i guess we'll need to build that with a later xcode
19:15 < sipa> but apart from that, i do expect it to be simple (as long as Qt etc support it)
19:16 < wumpus> right it doesn't have to be a great number of builds just to prove that a) you can do gitian builds b) you're willing to do them regularly, just to make sure you're not wasting people's time adding the signature
19:16 < achow101> i expect apple will have done something that just makes it super painful
19:16 < sipa> achow101: not unlikely :)
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19:21 < wumpus> we can't do the cross build with xcode, the difficulty is going to be the open source cross toolchain
19:22 < sipa> oh right, there may be complications from running an m1/osx-compatible clang on linux
19:22 < sipa> osxi i guess...
19:22 < wumpus> which needs to produce whatever kind of new binary format they've come up with and maybe they have some fun linker extensions too and whoknows
19:23 < wumpus> yeah
19:24 < wumpus> even the plists are still a continous source of fun
19:24 < sipa> well, all things we can figure out once someone has hardware
19:32 < wumpus> I think that's a good way to go about it, no need to be overly eager anyhow, wait a bit for the initial bugs and tooling issues for the platform to be ironed out by others
19:33 < fanquake> Yea. Like having your macbook bricked after upgrading to macOS 11
19:34 < wumpus> sorry for your loss :/
19:35 < fanquake> heh no, I'm remaining firmly on macOS  10. I'll think about an upgrade after a few point releases.
19:35 < fanquake> Just seen reports of bricking in older macbooks
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19:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0a267f4eb885...2878167c18ee
19:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ecc6cf1 Vasil Dimov: test: fix creation of std::string objects with \0s
19:41 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2878167 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20000: test: fix creation of "std::string"s with \0s
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19:41 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20000: test: fix creation of "std::string"s with \0s (master...fix_base32_tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20000
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20:21 < wumpus> let's try to get #14066 in early in the cycle this time
20:21 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14066 | gitian-linux: Build binaries for 64-bit POWER by luke-jr · Pull Request #14066 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
20:22  * fanquake glares at that symbol check regex
20:22 < wumpus> I really prefer not to see it on the last minute PRs list for the 22.0 milestone *again* :-)
20:23 < wumpus> I'm sure we can simplify things like that later
20:24 < miketwenty1> has anyone here used terraform?
20:28 < wumpus> fanquake: but agree it's become a horrible mess; at some point we'd likely want to do real ELF parsing instead of parsing the output of readelf, I think in many cases it's easier
20:29 < wumpus> no need for regexps in any case
20:29 < luke-jr> regexps are better than error-prone parsing :x
20:30 < wumpus> they're just as error prone just hide this by being inscrutinable too
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20:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2878167c18ee...46f0b2f97601
20:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c923872 João Barbosa: refactor: Extract ParseOpCode from ParseScript
20:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46f0b2f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19851: refactor: Extract ParseOpCode from ParseScript
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20:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19851: refactor: Extract ParseOpCode from ParseScript (master...2020-08-parseopcode) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19851
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20:39 < luke-jr> wumpus: not really
20:40 < wumpus> in any case, parsing command output text was the wrong way to go about this (this is my fault, it seemed easier when it was still a few simple checks, it always starts out like that doesn't it)
20:41 < luke-jr> parsing ELF sounds a lot harder tho
20:41 < wumpus> it's really easy
20:41 < wumpus> just some fixed binary headers
20:42 < wumpus> that we only handle a small subset of possible architectures makes it even simpler
20:43 < sipa> yeah and then some architecture is added with 9-bit bytes, and all your parsing code breaks!
20:43 < wumpus> I'm sure readelf would choke on that too :)
20:46 < sipa> wumpus: are you up early, or up late?
20:47 < wumpus> but joking aside the ELF format has been really stable since, 1995 or so (when spec 1.2 was released), of course there have been some platform-specific extensions but the essence is still exactly the same, there's not many data formats that stable
20:47 < wumpus> sipa: very early
20:50 < fanquake> wumpus: it did feel a bit too early for you to be merging things
20:52 < sipa> wumpus: excited for 0.21 huh :p
20:53 < wumpus> sipa: kind of! mostly excited for the feature merge window to be open again, but yes :p
20:54 < sipa> ok, excited for 0.22!
20:54 < fanquake> already into all the cool new stuff for 22.0
20:54 < wumpus> right
21:03 < wumpus> i just rolled out of bed and had some energy and motivation which is great, will probably crash later
21:05 < fanquake> then you can take the afternoon off!
21:07 < wumpus> yess
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21:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/46f0b2f97601...fdd068507d26
21:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5ed3b MarcoFalke: net: Use Span in ReceiveMsgBytes
21:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fdd0685 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20056: net: Use Span in ReceiveMsgBytes
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21:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20056: net: Use Span in ReceiveMsgBytes (master...2010-netSpan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20056
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21:11 < achow101> fanquake: already committed to calling it 22.0?
21:12 < wumpus> I've started calling it 22.0 because it results in the least bikeshedding (at least here)
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21:15 < fanquake> achow: lock it in
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21:18  * achow101 stares at all of the Concept ACks but no real ACKs on the #20223
21:18 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20223 | Drop the leading 0 from the version number by achow101 · Pull Request #20223 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
21:19 < achow101> fanquake: uh oh osx mismatch
21:19 < achow101> - 0c7d12fc7de3c9c1649f3266fd266dcc8e51c8d6ffb3f873304feb79f7bbc594  bitcoin-0.21.0rc1-osx-unsigned.dmg
21:19 < achow101> + 35dfd3c5bf817585bd2a9dc63391f9ffe89da0fbd42cd881ec6e215178bc14b7  bitcoin-0.21.0rc1-osx-unsigned.dmg
21:20 < fanquake> yea I'll be taking a look
21:20 < wumpus> achow101: the concept is what you would need most agreement on there
21:20 < fanquake> good thing we've already committed to an rc2 
21:21 < achow101> $20 on genisoimage being the problem, again
21:21 < achow101> wumpus: true
21:21 < wumpus> achow101: I don't think so, that didn't affect the dmg :)
21:22 < achow101> s/genisoimage/unclean cache
21:22 < wumpus> well at least if you mean 'discrepancy in the genisoimage binary'
21:22 < wumpus> of course, genisoimage will have an important part in creating the dmg
21:23 < fanquake> have been chatting to Carl, and I think we are going to revive some of #18151, so we can dump genisoimage
21:23 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18151 | build: replace libdmg and genisoimage with xorriso by fanquake · Pull Request #18151 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
21:23 < wumpus> yes, last times I had osx mismatches, deleting the cache solved it
21:24 < achow101> what if we just dump macos :)
21:24 < fanquake> rather used some  tools that are being actively maintained
21:24 < wumpus> fanquake: let's hope the new tool doesn't have a world of fresh new issues!
21:24 < fanquake> 🤯
21:25 < wumpus> but yes using an actively maintained tool is better especially if you want to keep up with new macos versions and their weridnesses
21:25 < fanquake> hopefully avoid more things like #19553
21:25 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19553 | build: pass -fcommon when building genisoimage by fanquake · Pull Request #19553 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
21:26 < wumpus> achow101: it's curious, it always used to be windows that caused problems all the time, seems really quiet on that front
21:26 < wumpus> either no one is running windows anymore or it just works
21:26 < luke-jr> wumpus: I don't think fixed size reads are gonna do what that code is..
21:26 < achow101> it seems to just work now
21:27 < wumpus> luke-jr: what does it do then?
21:27 < luke-jr> wumpus: I forget :D
21:27 < luke-jr> but it's definitely variable length
21:28 < luke-jr> achow101: real ACKs belong on #20251 :P
21:28 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20251 | Move major version to first version integer as specified by SemVer by luke-jr · Pull Request #20251 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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21:29 < luke-jr> my osx matches fanquake's fwiw
21:30 < wumpus> most of the security checks are literally just 'check a bit flag in some header', some check for presence of a symbol, I guess reading strings (say, for section names) is the only variable length operation but also a very straightforward one
21:32 < fanquake> who wants to upload a dmg somewhere
21:32 < achow101> fanquake: already doing that, just slowly
21:32 < wumpus> I don't have macosx output yet
21:33 < luke-jr> wumpus: looks like it's symobl versions
21:33 < luke-jr> wumpus: it's parsing: 4: 0000000000000000     0 FUNC    GLOBAL DEFAULT [<localentry>: 8]   UND memcpy@GLIBC_2.17 (2)
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21:34 < achow101> fanquake: https://github.com/achow101/bitcoin/releases/tag/v0.21.0rc1
21:34 < fanquake> achow101: thanks
21:34 < wumpus> well-if you load the symbol table directly at least all those fields will be at fixed offsets within a record, no ambiguity what starts where, the symbol name location is always at the same offset
21:35 < luke-jr> wumpus: true
21:36 < wumpus> this could be the case for text output too, but readelf definitely doesn't heed that, column sizes change all the time; columns differ per architecture; it's clearly for human consumption not machine parsing
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21:38 < luke-jr> indeed
21:38 < luke-jr> fwiw mine are uploading to https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind/0.21.0/test/rc1/ if anyone wants it
21:38 < luke-jr> uploaded*
21:42 < fanquake> diffoscope has died at 40%. So I guess I'll just give up
21:42 < achow101> lol
21:43 < achow101> looks like the problem is in bitcoin-qt
21:43 < fanquake> oh actually I  think I know what the issue is
21:44 < fanquake> It's a determinism  issue in LLVM 8
21:44 < fanquake> Carl and Cory were discussing this morning, and the asm diff I'm looking at now looks almost exactly the same to what Carl had posted
21:45 < achow101> https://0bin.net/paste/p9X9SsZs#wJ4QGl2WQMl1nk5edZ-pa2zIjPYjinBzxJ6VOWPlKaL
21:46 < wumpus> tar: Xcode-11.3.1-11C505-extracted-SDK-with-libcxx-headers.tar.gz: Cannot stat: No such file or directory
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21:48 < achow101> fanquake: but it only effects qt?
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21:49 < luke-jr> affects*
21:49 < fanquake> achow101: From what I saw there was only an issue in Qt. Cory had bisected to a commit in LLVM. Just pulling up the details
21:49 < achow101> english is hard
21:51 < fanquake> I think this is the culprit: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/commit/db101864bdc938deb1d63fe4f7da761bd38e5cae
21:52 < luke-jr> lol, supposed to avoid nondeterminism and yet introduces it?
21:52 < fanquake> *commit that needs to be backported
21:52 < luke-jr> ah
21:53 < achow101> did the llvm version change since 0.20.1?
21:54 < fanquake> We moved from Clang 6.0.1 to 8.0.0
21:54 < achow101> oh
21:55 < fanquake> #19240
21:55 < gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19240 | build: macOS toolchain simplification and bump by dongcarl · Pull Request #19240 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
21:55 < fanquake> Also why we got the Xcode SDK/tarball
21:57 < achow101> so the fix is to apply that commit ourselves during depends build?
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21:59 < fanquake> The issue is that we download a prebuilt Clang. So we'd have to compile ourselves if we want that fix. I don't think there is an 8.x version available that has it
22:01 < achow101> is 8.x required?
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22:02 < fanquake> It was picked to "line up" with other macOS tools and the SDK
22:03 < fanquake> I've pinged Carl/Cory, they might already have something in mind, but will be sleeping
22:05 < achow101> do you know what exactly the nature of the nondeterminism is? istm we should all have different osx results
22:08 < fanquake> Not exactly sorry. From the discussion I saw they were digging somewhere in qpaintengine 
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22:27 < achow101> fanquake: can you link me to the discussion?
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22:29 < fanquake> achow101: I would but it's in a group chat, & not public
22:30 < fanquake> It's just where we occasionally talk about "cool" & exciting build system stuff heh
22:30 < achow101> these build people doing things behind closed doors :p
22:30 < achow101> I thought that's what #bitcoin-builds was for
22:31 < fanquake> Yea we probably need to start diverting some traffic into that
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23:20 < Kiminuo> MarcoFalke, Hi, would you possibly know how to add `-lstdc++fs`. It seems I need that to avoid linking errors on Ubuntu 18.04. I compile like this:  ./autogen.sh && ./configure CC=gcc-8 CXX=g++-8 BDB_LIBS="-L${BDB_PREFIX}/lib -ldb_cxx-4.8" BDB_CFLAGS="-I${BDB_PREFIX}/include" && make -j10
23:20 < Kiminuo> ?
23:21 < Kiminuo> (https://stackoverflow.com/a/33159746)
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23:43 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #20430: sanitizers: Add suppression for unsigned-integer-overflow in libstdc++ (master...2020/11/suppressions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20430
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23:54 < jonasschnelli> Oh. Our apple developer program expires in 9 days. Better renew now.
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23:59 < hebasto> catching up the macos non-deterministic gitian builds (4 sigs vs 2 sigs). Do I understand correctly that we blame llvm?
--- Log closed Fri Nov 20 00:00:22 2020