--- Log opened Thu Mar 24 00:00:34 2022
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00:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 5 commits to 23.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/55a60b971802...7d03cf632d16
00:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/23.x fc421d4 Sjors Provoost: move-only: helper function to present PSBT
00:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/23.x 9406946 Sjors Provoost: refactor: helper function signWithExternalSigner()
00:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/23.x 642f272 Sjors Provoost: gui: restore Send for external signer
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00:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24596: [23.x] GUI backports (23.x...220317-23.x-backport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24596
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00:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24656: refactor: Move mempool RPCs to rpc/mempool (master...2203-more-mempool-🍢) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24656
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03:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24658: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-netbsd.md (master...netbsd_descriptor_reorder) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24658
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03:55 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #23470: doc: consolidate legacy wallet documentation (master...wallet_mess_cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23470
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03:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/98e9d8e8e2e3...cea2ce09deb6
03:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 061accf fanquake: build: require libtool 2.4.2
03:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cea2ce0 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24650: build: require libtool 2.4.2
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03:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24650: build: require libtool 2.4.2 (master...require_libtool_2_4_6) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24650
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03:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cea2ce09deb6...6fee9de54274
03:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e857f0b Hennadii Stepanov: guix: Drop unneeded openssl dependency for signapple
03:57 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6fee9de fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24508: guix: Drop unneeded openssl dependency for si...
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03:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24508: guix: Drop unneeded openssl dependency for signapple (master...220309-openssl) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24508
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04:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6fee9de54274...8234cdaf6257
04:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2726b60 Ayush Sharma: test: use MiniWallet for rpc_createmultisig.py
04:12 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8234cda fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24587: test: use MiniWallet for rpc_createmultisig.p...
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04:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24587: test: use MiniWallet for rpc_createmultisig.py (master...createmultisig-miniwallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24587
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04:25 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8234cdaf6257...e40327d3bb5b
04:25 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 682962d fanquake: guix: point to latest upstream commit
04:25 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 946b86c fanquake: Revert "build: Fix gcc-cross-x86_64-w64-mingw32-10.3.0 in Guix"
04:25 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e40327d fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24599: guix: remove mingw-w64 std::filesystem workar...
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04:26 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24599: guix: remove mingw-w64 std::filesystem workaround (master...remove_newlib_workaround) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24599
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04:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e40327d3bb5b...864fb89b2f8b
04:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eb3c5c4 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: MiniWallet: add helper methods `{send,create}_self_transfer_multi`
04:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2b6dd4e Sebastian Falbesoner: test: use MiniWallet for mempool_package_onemore.py
04:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 864fb89 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24637: test: use MiniWallet for mempool_package_onem...
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04:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24637: test: use MiniWallet for mempool_package_onemore.py (master...20220322-test-use_MiniWallet_for_mempool_packages_onemore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24637
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04:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24659: util: add linkat to syscall sandbox (AllowFileSystem) (master...maybe_fix_24536) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24659
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04:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/864fb89b2f8b...26d98d51f2cf
04:56 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa76d8d MarcoFalke: test: Actually print TSan tracebacks
04:56 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 26d98d5 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24574: test: Actually print TSan tracebacks
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04:57 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24574: test: Actually print TSan tracebacks (master...2203-tsan-bug-🐳) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24574
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05:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/26d98d51f2cf...e7b6272b3053
05:15 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faf37c2 MarcoFalke: rpc: Exclude descriptor when address is excluded
05:15 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e7b6272 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24636: rpc: Exclude descriptor when address is exclu...
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05:16 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24636: rpc: Exclude descriptor when address is excluded (master...2203-docBug-💧) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24636
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05:52 < vincenzopalazzo> there is someone open to review this PR? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23127
05:53 < vincenzopalazzo> This include test refactoring, and I think it is good avoid to many rebase to avoid to introduce some regression
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06:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7b6272b3053...213e98ca826e
06:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fae2220 MarcoFalke: scheduler: Capture ‘this’ explicitly in lambda
06:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fabb7c4 MarcoFalke: Make fs.h C++20 compliant
06:01 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fae6790 MarcoFalke: Add CSerializedNetMsg::Copy() helper
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06:01 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24169: build: Add --enable-c++20 option (master...2201-ciCpp20) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24169
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06:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/213e98ca826e...053499f371b9
06:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 97af652 Hennadii Stepanov: guix: Drop code for the unsupported `i686-linux-gnu` host
06:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 053499f fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24639: guix: Drop code for the unsupported `i686-lin...
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06:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24639: guix: Drop code for the unsupported `i686-linux-gnu` host (master...220322-guix686) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24639
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06:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/053499f371b9...7d0e42abce9d
06:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7ac7198 fanquake: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-netbsd.md
06:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7d0e42a fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24658: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy walle...
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06:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24658: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-netbsd.md (master...netbsd_descriptor_reorder) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24658
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06:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7d0e42abce9d...4a0ab355b3e7
06:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b281398 Martin Zumsande: init: disallow reindex-chainstate when pruning
06:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4a0ab35 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24626: init: disallow reindex-chainstate when prunin...
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06:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24626: init: disallow reindex-chainstate when pruning (master...202203_reindex_cs_prune) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24626
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08:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #19920: test: Fuzzing siphash against reference implementation [Request for feedback] (master...2020-fuzzing-siphash) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19920
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08:32 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #22291: Added comment about narrow contract for Span(T* begin, T* end) ctor (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22291
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08:39 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #23364: Add a test and optimize HexStr() by 27% (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23364
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08:50 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #21434: util: check integer overrun in RaiseFileDescriptorLimit (master...fdlimit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21434
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09:03 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #24014: build: Upgrade default msvc platform (master...pr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24014
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09:40 < stickies-v> Is anyone running a somewhat stable node on CJDNS and willing to somewhat commit to keep it up and running for a few weeks, until after RC testing is finished? There are already a few addresses listed in #23077 but since it's been a few months since that PR I'm not sure they're still in use, and of course the more the better to spread the load.
09:40 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23077 | Full CJDNS support by vasild · Pull Request #23077 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:42 < stickies-v> (cc vasild jonatack jamesob dunxen )
09:42 < vasild> mine should be online
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09:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/4a0ab355b3e7...0a14a16efe0f
09:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa8857c MarcoFalke: Replace struct update_fee_delta with lambda
09:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa84a49 MarcoFalke: Use CAmount for fee delta and modified fee
09:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0a14a16 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24625: Replace struct update_fee_delta with lambda
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09:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24625: Replace struct update_fee_delta with lambda (master...2203-refactor-fee-delta-🔶) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24625
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10:34 < bitcoin-git> [gui] vasild opened pull request #569: test: add regression test for #567 (master...options_test) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/569
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10:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0a14a16efe0f...65e9ca22785f
10:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ed15848 Jon Atack: doc: create initial doc/cjdns.md for cjdns how-to documentation
10:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3bf6f0c Jon Atack: doc: update tor.md with cjdns and getnodeaddresses, fix tor grep,
10:44 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f44efc3 Jon Atack: doc: update i2p.md with cjdns, improve local addresses section
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10:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #24555: doc: create initial doc/cjdns.md for CJDNS how-to documentation (master...cjdns-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24555
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11:07 < csw> hi
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11:12 < jonatack> stickies: thanks for working on this! There have been only three CJDNS nodes that have been stable these past months. For the testing guide I would suggest using the ones added to the DNS seeds in #24166
11:12 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24166 | p2p, contrib: add cjdns hardcoded seeds and update the i2p seeds by jonatack · Pull Request #24166 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
11:13 < jonatack> stickies-v: (as we just discussed privately but replying here as well)
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11:17 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #23362: util: Add "importfromcoldcard" command to bitcoin-wallet tool (master...211025-cc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23362
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11:18 < stickies-v> yeah I'll stick to those 3 working ones for now, but still if anyone's able to add to the pool that would be much appreciated to add some redundancy and load spreading
11:21 < jonatack> yes, it's early days, more testing and feedback by people can be helpful, along with bootstrapping more bitcoin CJDNS nodes
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11:22 < jonatack> those three cjdns nodes have been solid though for me (well, the two that aren't mine)
11:24 < cjd> Something I've wanted to do for a while is optional auto-introduction, like dns seeds
11:25 < cjd> Guess a start would be to just try run a script that tries connecting to every node on a list and then marks them as up or down
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11:27 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #23807: p2p: Remove GetAdjustedTime() from AddrMan (master...remove_adjusted_time_addrman) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23807
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11:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24662: addrman: Use sytem time instead of adjusted network time (master...2203-add-🔍) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24662
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11:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #24662: addrman: Use sytem time instead of adjusted network time (master...2203-add-🔍) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24662
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11:55 < stickies-v> #proposedmeetingtopic RC23.0 Testing Guide update: https://github.com/stickies-v/bitcoin-devwiki/blob/master/23.0-Release-Candidate-Testing-Guide.md
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11:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/65e9ca22785f...a697a3fc9156
11:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0bfbf7f josibake: test: use MiniWallet in `interfaces_zmq`
11:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bc90b8d josibake: [move only] remove `is_wallet_compiled` checks
11:59 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a697a3f MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24653: test: use `MiniWallet` in `test/functional/in...
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11:59 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24653: test: use `MiniWallet` in `test/functional/interface_zmq` (master...josibake-make-interfaces-zmq-test-use-miniwallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24653
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12:00 < laanwj> #startmeeting
12:00 < core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Thu Mar 24 19:00:19 2022 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
12:00 < core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
12:00 < fanquake> hi
12:00 < hebasto> hi
12:00 < larryruane> Hi
12:00 < michaelfolkson> hi
12:00 < stickies-v> hi
12:00 < achow101> hi
12:00 < laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
12:00 < laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
12:01 < MarcoFalke> hi
12:01 < dongcarl> hi
12:01 < sipsorcery> hi
12:01 < cfields_> hi
12:01 < laanwj> hello everyone, welcome to the weekly general #bitcoin-core-dev meeting
12:01 < sipa> hi
12:02 < laanwj> two topics have been proposed: Current thinking on when to deprecate and the deprecation process when deprecation is considered appropriate (michaelfolkson) and RC23.0 Testing Guide update (stickes-v)
12:02 < lightlike> hi
12:02 < laanwj> any last minute ones?
12:02 < michaelfolkson> Please do stickies-v topic first
12:03 < laanwj> michaelfolkson: ok, well, we'll start with high priority for review dsicussion as usual then stickies-v topic
12:03 < michaelfolkson> Of course, yup
12:03 < laanwj> #topic High priority for review
12:03 < core-meetingbot`> topic: High priority for review
12:04 < laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  10 blockers, 1 chasing concept ACK
12:04 < laanwj> anything to add, remove, or that is almost ready for merge?
12:05 < kanzure> hi
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12:05 < dongcarl> "almost ready for merge" as in "already on the list and almost ready for merge"?
12:05 < laanwj> dongcarl: yes, that's what i mean
12:05 < dongcarl> 👍
12:05 < laanwj> that said, you can mention PRs that should be merged any time whether on the list or not
12:06 < fanquake> I don't have a PR, but I'd propose #23083
12:06 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23083 | rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23083 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:06 < dongcarl> Got it, just checking! 😄
12:06 < MarcoFalke> fanquake: Good suggestion
12:06 < MarcoFalke> Though, I already have one on hi-prio
12:06 < MarcoFalke> (It's illegal to have two)
12:06 < fanquake> it can take the place of my PR
12:07 < fanquake> the amount of bugs it's found would warrant it
12:07 < dongcarl> 😮: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083#issuecomment-1075037566
12:07 < laanwj> yes highly illegal !!!
12:08 < laanwj> MarcoFalke's other PR doesn't seem to have sufficient review yet to qualify for merging right now
12:08 < laanwj> but yes, fine
12:09 < laanwj> added
12:09  * MarcoFalke blush
12:09 < laanwj> anything else?
12:10 < Murch> hi
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12:11 < laanwj> if not, let's go to next topic
12:11 < laanwj> #topic RC23.0 Testing Guide update (stickies-v)
12:11 < core-meetingbot`> topic: RC23.0 Testing Guide update (stickies-v)
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12:12 < stickies-v> As promised on last week’s meeting, I’d revert with an update on the RC23 testing guide, so first version available here: https://github.com/stickies-v/bitcoin-devwiki/blob/master/23.0-Release-Candidate-Testing-Guide.md . Please reach out any way you like with feedback and/or suggestions (too alpha for proofreading/typos though).
12:12 < stickies-v> I still need to add instructions on arm-arm64-apple-darwin (cc hebasto) and even though consensus last week was that the RPC updates weren't super crucial to test in this guide, I might add some instructions if I have time. I'm still very much open to further changes to test, so please let me know if I missed anything you consider important?
12:13 < laanwj> will take a look at it, thanks! do we need to add a link to it anywhere?
12:13 < jonatack> hi
12:13 < laanwj> i guess in  #24501 would make sens
12:13 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24501 | v23.0 testing · Issue #24501 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
12:13 < stickies-v> it would, but I don't think it's ready for that yet, should be in a few days
12:14 < stickies-v> then I'll also need write access to bitcoindev-wiki to update, I think?
12:14 < laanwj> stickies-v: oh you don't yet?
12:14 < laanwj> no problem we'll get that sorted
12:15 < jeremyrubin> hi
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12:15 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #24663: doc, init: add links to doc/cjdns.md (master...doc-cjdns) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24663
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12:16 < stickies-v> ty! that's pretty much all from me, just wanted to update and encourage to reach out with ideas and feedback. thanks!
12:16 < laanwj> thanks for the update
12:17 < laanwj> #topic Current thinking on when to deprecate and the deprecation process when deprecation is considered appropriate
12:17 < core-meetingbot`> topic: Current thinking on when to deprecate and the deprecation process when deprecation is considered appropriate
12:17 < laanwj> (michaelfolkson)
12:18 < michaelfolkson> Ok so I went down this mini rabbithole on deprecation in Core this week due to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24638
12:18 < michaelfolkson> I was surprised that there was opposition to deprecating a RPC that appears to offer a subset of what another RPC offers
12:19 < laanwj> usually we keep to two major releases for deprecation (say, RPC APIs), but there are some things with which to be much more careful around, like the legacy wallet
12:19 < sipa> and it's always on a case-by-case basis weighing the benefits against the costs
12:19 < jeremyrubin> i think if it is truly a subset we can just shim one functionality with the other new code  and the overhead of having an RPC call itself is not huge 
12:20 < laanwj> support for old wallets is really important for obvious reasons, so the upgrade path for that has to be completely water tight
12:20 < MarcoFalke> michaelfolkson: I'd say the process is (1) Decide on a case-by-case basis what should be deprecated (2) Decide on a case-by-case basis what should be deleted
12:20 < michaelfolkson> I tried to write up my current understanding on how Core approaches deprecation (whether to do it or not) https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/113008/what-are-the-considerations-when-assessing-whether-to-deprecate-a-feature-in-bit
12:20 < jeremyrubin> the benefit of deprecation is if the old way is truly broken somehow / leads to tons of extra code
12:20 < MarcoFalke> I don't think it makes sense to follow a strict process/timeline for deprecation/deletion
12:21 < laanwj> yes, it's a compromise on a case by case basis
12:21 < MarcoFalke> I even think that deletion is not mandatory for deprecated stuff
12:21 < jonatack> my understanding is roughly as expressed in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24606#issuecomment-1076377877
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12:21 < michaelfolkson> The argument against having a timeline though is you don't give sufficient advance warning to users/downstream projects and creates issues that could be avoided. Presumably that is why achow101 has tried a timeline approach
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12:22 < michaelfolkson> *argument for
12:22 < michaelfolkson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20160
12:22 < MarcoFalke> For example, there is almost no cost to an alias RPC, so personally I don't see a reason to remove it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/e30b6ea194fee3bb95a45e7b732a99566b88f1f5/src/wallet/rpc/coins.cpp#L235
12:22 < sipa> Once we deprecate an RPC, the rule is generally 1 or 2 major releases.
12:23 < sipa> But I think the point is that there isn't a fixed timeline about things, because it's always a case-by-case situation.
12:23 < MarcoFalke> michaelfolkson: The timeline for the wallet already slipped, it is not something that users can rely on
12:23 < sipa> E.g. the discussion around removing BDB/legacy wallet support is a very different one than the one around removing the misleading "addresses" RPC output field in getaddressinfo.
12:24 < michaelfolkson> Right, I guess it is just about ensuring there is communication on what is planned
12:24 < sipa> I don't think there's much to say here; there are a number of approaches we've used in the past... some of those may or may not be appropriate for future changes.
12:25 < sipa> It all depends on what's on the line, and what is to be gained.
12:25 < jeremyrubin> one point in favour of deprecation for this, is that in theory if someone is using it and they're updating their logic they might be helped by learning about the new functionalities 
12:25 < michaelfolkson> And nothing really to write up. Just case by case. The only thing that should maybe be done is communication on planned deprecation of legacy wallet
12:25  * MarcoFalke reminds me of the "let's do a refactor-all-the-things week" discussion
12:26 < laanwj> oh no
12:26 < michaelfolkson> Staggered deprecations over multiple versions and good communication (mailing list, release notes etc) seem like good idea to me. But can't guarantee timelines
12:27 < michaelfolkson> Ok, there isn't much more to be said then
12:27 < laanwj> any other topics?
12:27 < jonatack>  I agree with an ad hoc approach (in general)
12:27 < jonatack> for most of these kind of topics
12:30 < laanwj> if there's nothign more to discuss it's time to close the meeting, thanks everyone for attending
12:30 < laanwj> #endmeeting
12:30 < core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
12:30 < core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Thu Mar 24 19:30:25 2022 UTC.  
12:30 < core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-03-24-19.00.moin.txt
12:30 < dongcarl> Thanks!
12:32 < michaelfolkson> Would it be worth putting in 23.0 release notes that there is the intention to deprecate the legacy wallet in a future version?
12:32 < michaelfolkson> Or at least an issue open that seeks to do that?
12:33 < michaelfolkson> I get it may never happen but advance warnings on things that could/are likely to happen seems smart
12:34 < achow101> michaelfolkson: there are already plans in place for in software warnings about deprecation
12:35 < michaelfolkson> Ok, yeah that's true
12:36 < michaelfolkson> And someone stuck on an old version wouldn't necessarily read the release notes of 23.0
12:37 < michaelfolkson> User/downstream project
12:37 < achow101> do keep in mind that even if someone were to skip 3 years of releases, they would not necessarily find themselves SOL. There will be a migration tool that remains even after the removal of bdb and the legacy wallet
12:38 < MarcoFalke> migratewallet would be a nice pull for hi-prio?
12:38 < achow101> MarcoFalke: I currently have taproot psbt as my hi prio
12:38 < MarcoFalke> ah
12:38 < michaelfolkson> Others have two :)
12:40 < michaelfolkson> Do we have any idea what downstream projects would be affected and rely on the Core wallet? I'm guessing not many
12:40 < achow101> there are several which use the core wallet as a watchonly wallet
12:40 < achow101> several of those have already moved to using descriptor wallets
12:44 < michaelfolkson> Ok. I think if it were entirely down to me I'd want a mailing list post, indication in release notes of previous versions too. Just cover all bases. Can't be criticized then
12:45 < michaelfolkson> But the deprecation warnings are probably most important
12:45 < michaelfolkson> And the migratewallet tool being available well in advance (which it will be)
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13:14 < stickies-v> Communication and warnings are essential but I think especially small dev teams tend to gloss over that sometimes. I think it would be helpful for downstream users to have a global RPC flag like `-testdeprecation` that lets RPCs behave as if the functionality is already removed. That's very easy for them to add to their automated test suites and quickly be informed of upcoming breaking changes that actually affect 
13:14 < stickies-v> them?
13:17 < sipa> @[stickies-v] We have the opposite, there is an -deprecatedrpc=X that lets you bring back an RPC temporarily.
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13:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a697a3fc9156...f0c9ba2b48c3
13:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2b7a818 Jon Atack: net, init: assert each network reachability is true by default
13:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master afdf2de Jon Atack: test: add CJDNS to LimitedAndReachable_Network unit tests
13:19 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bd57dcb Jon Atack: test: hoist proxy out of 2 network loops in feature_proxy.py
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13:19 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24205: init, test: improve network reachability test coverage and safety (master...network-reachability-assertion-and-testing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24205
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13:21 < stickies-v> Yeah that's true, but offering the tools to be proactive too seems helpful? Gives more time to migrate (or less time required for core to maintain, as per the case-by-case approach)
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13:29 < jonatack> stickies-v: with the current approach they don't even need to pass a flag for their test suites to inform them ;)
13:32 < jonatack> (i do like the current -deprecatedrpc= approach, modulo that we don't have the same -- yet -- for configuration options)
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13:32 < stickies-v> Hmm I don't get that. Isn't the current flow 1) communicate deprecation at some future version 2) at release of announced future version, enforce deprecation in API but add fallback via -deprecatedrpc 3) at some later version, remove -deprecatedrpc and remove logic altogether ?
13:34 < jonatack> doc/JSON-RPC-interface.md#versioning
13:38 < jonatack> upon a major version release, the release notes mention the deprecations, and on upgrading, an API client's test suite should provide feedback, with the possibility to workaround those temporarily by passing  -deprecatedrpc= flags
13:38 < sipa> @[stickies-v] 1 and 2 are the same
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13:40 < stickies-v> ah okay thanks, I thought there was always at least 1 version between 1 and 2. Thanks for clearing up
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13:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 14 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f0c9ba2b48c3...3740cdd12551
13:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c7c64db Andrew Chow: wallet: cleanup COutput constructor
13:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 10379f0 Andrew Chow: scripted-diff: Rename COutput member variables
13:47 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4602295 Andrew Chow: wallet: Remove use_max_sig default value
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13:47 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24091: wallet: Consolidate CInputCoin and COutput (master...consolidate-coutput-cinputcoin) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24091
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14:55 < achow101> Is #23536 rfm? It has 4 ACKs, but as it ostensibly a consensus change, perhaps requires some more scrutiny?
14:55 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23536 | Enforce Taproot script flags whenever WITNESS is set by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23536 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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15:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #16228: Bugfix: make check: Only run tests that were compiled (master...bugfix_raii_check_fail) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16228
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15:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr reopened pull request #16228: Bugfix: make check: Only run tests that were compiled (master...bugfix_raii_check_fail) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16228
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23:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3740cdd12551...56c8658700fc
23:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master daae288 Jon Atack: doc, init: add links to doc/cjdns.md
23:29 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 56c8658 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24663: doc, init: add links to doc/cjdns.md
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23:29 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24663: doc, init: add links to doc/cjdns.md (master...doc-cjdns) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24663
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 25 00:00:36 2022