--- Log opened Thu Aug 24 00:00:27 2023
--- Day changed Thu Aug 24 2023
00:00 < PaperSword> Is there a good method/function to access details of the CoinStatsIndex?
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02:31 < fjahr> What do you mean by details? There is GetSummary() available for every index if that are the kind of details you are looking for.
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06:55 < PaperSword> Thank you 
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07:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
07:00 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard aureleoules b10c BlueMatt brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge dongcarl fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jonatack josibake kallewoof kanzure kouloumos kvaciral laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr MacroFake Murch phantomcircuit pinheadmz promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa theStack TheCharlatan vasild
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07:01 < kanzure> hi
07:01 < brunoerg> hi
07:01 < pinheadmz> hi
07:01 < Murch> Hi
07:01 < PaperSword> hi
07:01 < sipa> hi
07:01 < dergoegge> hi
07:01 < hebasto> hi
07:01 < furszy> hi
07:01 < glozow> hi
07:01 < achow101> There are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week. any last minute ones to add to the list?
07:02 < achow101> #topic package relay updates (glozow)
07:02 < glozow> #28251 is the high-prio PR. it fixes a fun bug and has some of the commits from #26711
07:02 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28251 | validation: fix coins disappearing mid-package evaluation by glozow · Pull Request #28251 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:02 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/26711 | validate package transactions with their in-package ancestor sets by glozow · Pull Request #26711 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:03 < achow101> sounds like a fun bug
07:03 < achow101> #topic BIP 324 updates (sipa)
07:04 < sipa> hi!
07:04 < sipa> one more down!
07:05 < instagibbs> nice
07:05 < sipa> next one to review is #28196
07:05 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28196 | BIP324 connection support by sipa · Pull Request #28196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:05 < _aj_> hi
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07:06 < sipa> which has now been updated to have no observable changes; it only adds the V2Transport class, and reuses the transport-can-talk-to-transport fuzz test from the previous PR
07:06 < achow101> this is everything in bip324 but without actually using it?
07:06 < sipa> almost everything, yes
07:07 < sipa> except service flags, connection/reconnection logic, rpc stuff, ...
07:07 < sipa> and more high-level tests
07:07 < PaperSword> Is there any way I could help with this? Testing?
07:08 < achow101> is there a way to turn it on to test with it?
07:08 < sipa> for some of that, i just opened #28331, which is functionally complete and testavle
07:08 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28331 | BIP324 integration by sipa · Pull Request #28331 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:08 < instagibbs> 28331 seems like that
07:08 < sipa> *testable
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07:08 < achow101> would that be considered the last pr in this project?
07:09 < sipa> there is also stratospher's bip324 implementation in test framework, and tests using it
07:10 < sipa> which i plan to leave out of 28331, but my plan is to work now on adding unit and functional tests (which don't require bip324 in python) to 28331
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07:10 < lightlike> so it might be realistic that it could make it into v26 ? at least optionally?
07:10 < achow101> cool to see that we're nearing completion
07:10 < sipa> so i think 28331 will probably be my last big PR relating to bip324
07:11 < sipa> i'm probably going to start running 28331 on my own nodes, so others can test with
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07:11 < sipa> lightlike: maybe it could be default off in v26
07:12 < lightlike> that would be great!
07:12 < sipa> but otherwise complete
07:12 < fanquake> 5 weeks left to get changes in to make that happen
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07:12 < luke-jr> off = won't be used even if the peer insists?
07:12 < sipa> fanquake: 2 Weeks(tm) for PR, doable right?
07:13 < fanquake> doable
07:13 < sipa> luke-jr: what 28331 implements is a -v2transport option; without it, no v2 is used ever
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07:13 < luke-jr> would be nice to have a mode where it's used if the peer requests it
07:13 < sipa> with it, it's used on inbound when the peer seems to be using it, and on outbound when service flag present
07:13 < sipa> luke-jr: that's doable
07:13 < sipa> just use it on inbound
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07:14 < sipa> ok, i think details can be discussed on the PRs
07:14 < sipa> any other questions? otherwise end of my topic
07:14 < furszy> so the node connects to bip324 peers because of a change in the desirable services flags?
07:15 < furszy> or well, I should go to the PR..
07:15 < achow101> #topic libbitcoinkernel updates (TheCharlatan)
07:15 < sipa> (afk)
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07:16 < fjahr> hi
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07:17 < achow101> seems to just still be waiting on review of #27866
07:17 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27866 | blockstorage: Return on fatal flush errors by TheCharlatan · Pull Request #27866 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:18 < achow101> #topic assumeutxo updates (jamesob)
07:18 < jamesob> Still #27596. I've got some rebasing todo (on it today) and need to incorporate feedback from ryanofsky (thanks for the review)
07:18 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27596 | assumeutxo (2) by jamesob · Pull Request #27596 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:19 < achow101> i'm partway through my review of it but so far all of my comments are things that other reviewers have noticed
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07:20 < jamesob> yeah I think I'm going to take ryanofsky's commit in lieu of sdaftuar's first commit and make sure it behaves the same
07:21 < achow101> #topic Ad-hoc high priority for review
07:21 < achow101> anything to add or remove from https://github.com/orgs/bitcoin/projects/1/views/4
07:22 < achow101> or any other topics to discuss?
07:23 < fjahr> pinheadmz: where you able to test your bot yet?
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07:23 < pinheadmz> sorry no :-(
07:23 < fjahr> Ok, then maybe next week :)
07:23 < dergoegge> I think #27897 would be nice to get in so maybe #28328 as high-prio?
07:23 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27897 | guix: use GCC 12.3.0 to build releases by fanquake · Pull Request #27897 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:23 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28328 | guix: update time-machine by fanquake · Pull Request #28328 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:23 < pinheadmz> #27101 is also ready for review again
07:24 < fanquake> I have the guix bump in there already, which is a dependant
07:24 <@gribble`> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27101 | Support JSON-RPC 2.0 when requested by client by pinheadmz · Pull Request #27101 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:24 < pinheadmz> it has a pretty mean scripted diff for JSON RPC response codes, which keep requiring rebase on master
07:25 < achow101> #endmeeting
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10:10 < real_or_random> https://twitter.com/real_or_random/status/1694758903437787516
10:10 < real_or_random> oops, wrong channel. I wanted to post this in #secp256k1. but it's fun here too
10:12 < sipa> :D
10:12 < preimage> nice
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13:41 < PaperSword> Is Solver safe to use for consensus critical code, example using Solver to determine a TX type for isUnspenable? 
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13:42 < sipa> it's certainly not designed for that
13:43 < sipa> and "tx type" isn't something that has meaning in consensus either
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13:43 < PaperSword> Sorry for my use of improper langauge, outpoint script type
13:43 < sipa> that too does not exist in consensus
13:43 < sipa> they're all just scripts
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13:44 < sipa> at least there is no distinction between e.g. P2MS, P2PK, P2PKH for example, from the perspective of consensus rules
13:45 < sipa> it just executes the script
13:45 < PaperSword> Thank you, but for example OP_RETURN as a script is provably unspendable. What would I call the act of Core determining that it's unspendable in order to prune. I thought of it as a 'type'
13:45 < PaperSword> So is consensus the wrong term? The script/script.cpp is part of lib_consensus that is why I am asking 
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13:46 < sipa> there is CScript::IsUnspendable
13:46 < PaperSword> Yep that is what I am working with
13:46 < PaperSword> Currently the conditions are OP_RETURN and Script size 
13:46 < sipa> right
13:47 < sipa> i would nack any use of Solver inside IsUnspendable for that, i think
13:47 < sipa> because that function is for policy/utility use, not consensus, and isn't designed with the same level of accuracy in mind
13:48 < sipa> for experimenting of course, go wild
13:48 < PaperSword> I made a really rough implementation that used Solver to determine if there is a P2MS or P2PK, the validiated the pubkeys in vSolutions using idFullyValid() if the script cant reach threshold to sign it's marked as unspendable thus pruning it from the UTXO set
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13:50 < PaperSword> Right now I am just messing around... still the idea has me a bit captivated. Also working out the potential issues of a reduced UTXO set size even if those entries were provably unspendable.
13:51 < PaperSword> pretty sure it would be considered a soft-fork?
13:51 < sipa> i certainly hope not
13:51 < sipa> if it is, you're doing something wrong
13:51 < sipa> as pruning unspendable things should be unobservable - spending them is already impossible
13:52 < PaperSword> My thought if there is a modification to the OP Code later on...
13:52 < sipa> irrelevant
13:52 < PaperSword> Becuase the miners are what matter in that case?
13:52 < sipa> no
13:52 < PaperSword> okay
13:53 < PaperSword> I will ponder this
13:53 < sipa> because you have not made any change to consensus, period
13:53 < sipa> (if you're doing it right)
13:53 < sipa> the exact same set of potential blocks are valid and invalid, with or without your extra pruning
13:54 < PaperSword> because the outpoints are provably unspenable.
13:55 < PaperSword> as such no script could ever satisfy those conditions now or ever
13:55 < sipa> right; if they're known to be unspendable at creation time, they don't need to be kept, because literally no valid block in the future could spend them
13:55 < sipa> that's what provably unspendable means
13:56 < sipa> so them being in the UTXO set or not is not observable by any future block
13:56 < PaperSword> Just an off shoot is there any condition where an output is unspendable in theory but due to a bug is spendable? 
13:56 < sipa> then it's not unspendable
13:56 < sipa> doesn't matter what the cause is
13:57 < sipa> the consensus rules are what the network implements, not what we think it ought to be
13:58 < PaperSword> Agreed
13:58 < sipa> so to get a patch that prunes additional unspendable outputs accepted, you better be very convincing that such outputs are absolutely unequivocally unconditionally unspendable already
13:59 < sipa> but there certainly have been "bugs" if you can call them that way in consensus rules; e.g. the fact that OP_CHECKMULTISIG pops one additional argument from the stack is almost certainly unintentional (and early, likely just unknown)
14:00 < sipa> or the inconsistency in ECDSA parsing fixed by BIP66 (https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009697.html)
14:01 < PaperSword> Of course, that has been the hardest part of this for me. In my mind it makes sense, but in practice there are always additional caveats to consider 
14:08 < PaperSword> Thank you for your insights, references, and thoughts :D
14:09 < sipa> np
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14:46 < PaperSword> Okay one last followup, is isFullyValid() exhaustive?
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14:57 < sipa> in what sense?
14:58 < sipa> i assume yes; it's true in case there exists a corresponding valid private key for that public key (which may be unfindable computationally)
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15:07 < PaperSword> That is the sense, that if fullyvalid returns false, then with certainty it's not a valid public key. 
15:07 < PaperSword> returns false for given pubkey*
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15:13 < PaperSword> I understand it's not possible to go from pub->priv, but for an example lets say a user creates a p2pk script, does a value of 10,000,000,000, broadcasts, has mined into block. He then realizes that while inputing his pubkey into the python script he wrote that there was an 'E' instead of 'F'. He then wants to see if there is any way of maybe in the future recovering his money. So he runs 
15:13 < PaperSword> isFullyValid() on his pubkey... and it returns false. Would it be provably certain he can not recover his funds?
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15:20 < sipa> yes
15:21 < PaperSword> Sweet! Now to break the news to a friend.
15:23 < sipa> it returns false when the pubkey cannot be parsed by libsecp
15:24 < sipa> that parsing happens also at signature verification time
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15:25 < sipa> and if it fails there, the signature is considered invalid
15:25 < PaperSword> That is what I assumed, but wanted to verify; seems it runs isValid, if true it does a second check with secp256k1_ec_pubkey_parse(secp256k1_context_static, &pubkey, vch, size())
15:26 < PaperSword> So using that logic, isFullyValid would be more consensus appropriate, than solver
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15:30 < PaperSword> If you are inclined to answer this one as well, I have looked at BIP173 which you authored. You state that "string is at most 90 characters long..." then detail the spec of at min 1 hrp char, 1 separator, and 6 data chars. As such is the minimum length implied from the spec as 8 base32 chars?
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15:35 < sipa> yes
15:36 < sipa> but bip173 has tighter range requirements than just the bech32 ones
15:36 < sipa> as witness programs are between 2 and 40 bytes in length
15:37 < PaperSword> Mostly was wondering for the case of LocateErrors function in bech32.cpp, which you also authored ironically. As per the update to the witness program size I saw that when Macro Falke updated the possible errors for DecodeDestination
15:38 < PaperSword> Currently using a short bech32 string just throws invalid separator position, also I think looking at blame you didn't author the LocateErrors and that came later on.
15:39 < PaperSword> Marco Falke updated decode destination to handle the the witness program size properly and if there are errors handle them correctly*
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 25 00:00:30 2023