--- Log opened Sat Aug 26 00:00:40 2023
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06:33 < sipa> PaperSwo1d: yes, that's how the script interpreter finds opcodes to execute
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14:58 < PaperSwo2d> There is no technical limitation to giving P2PK/P2MS address types since addresses are just figerprints for scripts?
14:59 < PaperSwo2d> I am ignoring community consensus in this example.
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15:09 < sipa> sure, there could be address types for P2PK and P2MS
15:09 < sipa> for P2MS they'd be super long though
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15:13 < sipa> i also don't think there is much use for them; P2PK is strictly better than P2PK I'd say (I may be biased..); and P2MS is really undesirable anyway because it puts the burden of paying for the receiver's complexity on the sender
15:14 < sipa> P2TR is strictly better than P2PK i meam
15:21 < PaperSwo2d> Yes I agree P2TR is better. Would hashing the serialized script + a prefix be a way to work around the length limit?
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15:22 < sipa> no? you can't reconstruct the script from that
15:22 < sipa> an address is a recipe for constructing an output scriptPubKey
15:23 < PaperSwo2d> Okay thank you! That was the gap is must the address include enough to reconstruct the script. 
15:23 < sipa> and if you want an address with a hash of the script... that's what P2SH was introduced for
15:23 < PaperSwo2d> I was thrown off by P2SH and P2WSH where it does reconscruct the redeem script, but not for example the witness data
15:24 < sipa> exactly so that the sender doesn't need to know or pay for the full script
15:24 < sipa> (and later P2WSH and P2TR)
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15:26 < PaperSwo2d> Yeah, though in some cases it could be argued it might be better to lay the script on chain while fees are low, that way if fees rise the spend is less. Also reduces dust I believe since the spend is less data. At the cost of no witness dicount and UTXO set serializaion bloat 
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15:28 < sipa> in a hypothetical world with musig/frost/whatever widely available, i expect it will be almost always cheaper and more private to use p2tr
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15:30 < PaperSwo2d> Sharing a single P2TR pubkey using coordination methods like MPC? Also P2TR has only 255 bits of security due to being X only, does this make it slightly less secure than ESCDA p2pk which uses 256 bits?
15:31 < sipa> no, it's exactly as secure
15:31 < sipa> imagine you had an algorithm that could compute the secret key for a given X-only public key
15:32 < sipa> if you want to compute the secret key of a full public key, take its X coordinate, feed it to the X-only breaker, and if it's wrong, negate the result
15:33 < sipa> and no, you don't need an MPC, just the musig algorithm (which arguably is a very specialized MPC, but when you say MPC, most people will imagine some heavyweight generic MPC solution)
15:34 < sipa> musig lets you combine multiple public keys into a single public key in such a way that you need all participants to cooperate to sign for it
15:35 < sipa> frost is a more complicated construction that lets you do k-of-n offchain
15:35 < sipa> musig is just n-of-n
15:35 < sipa> but you can have a taproot script tree where every leaf is a different k-of-k subset, if you want to emulate k-of-n with P2TR + musig
15:37 < PaperSwo2d> Holy ... Okay that is pretty cool, though at first glance I see complexy issues with the redeem script (depth) for large values of k. 
15:38 < sipa> also, ECDSA and Schnorr over secp256k1 only have roughly 128 bits of security (due to pollard rho or kangaroo algorithms for discrete logarithms), for both x-only or full pubkeys)
15:39 < sipa> PaperSwo1d: yeah that only works when (n choose k) is up to maybe millions
15:40 < sipa> FROST or other native threshold signature schemes have far lower computational complexity, but are significantly more complicated to implement correctly
15:40 < PaperSwo2d> The square root of n bits 2^(256/2), though the solution is not guaranteed in that amount of attempts, just likely. 
15:42 < PaperSwo2d> "and if it's wrong, negate the result" though the operation of negation is easy doesn't this imply there could be in the WCS 2x the total attempts when compared to a non x only public key?
15:42 < sipa> no, you don't have the run the solver twice
15:42 < sipa> you run it once
15:42 < sipa> and the DL of the full public key is either equal to the DL of the x-only key, or its negation
15:43 < sipa> that's just an additional constant-time trivial operation at the end
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15:44 < PaperSwo2d> This. "that's just an additional constant-time trivial operation at the end"
15:45 < PaperSwo2d> Thank You for all your insights and time I appreciate it!
15:45 < sipa> yw
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--- Log closed Sun Aug 27 00:00:41 2023