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05:57 < vasild> MacroFake: pinheadmz: sipa: wrt #27509 if the local tx is not added to the mempool, then there is the problem of properly counting non-mempool change in the wallet.
05:57 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27509 | Relay own transactions only via short-lived Tor or I2P connections by vasild · Pull Request #27509 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
05:57 < vasild> this is why I avoided going in that direction
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06:00 < vasild> What about synchronously waiting for the tx to go round-trip around the network and be added to the mempool as an ordinary foreign tx?
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06:10 < vasild> or maybe the change counting is not an issue, given that the round trip takes a few seconds
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06:24 < sipa> vasild: what do you mean by synchronously?
06:24 < vasild> do not return from BroadcastTransaction() (in src/node/transaction.cpp) until the tx is seen by the network == enters the mempool from outside
06:25 < sipa> and yes, i'm aware that the approach of not adding "unbroadcast" transactions to the mempool complicates things for the wallet, i think that's the primary reason something like this wasn't done already
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06:25 < sipa> you'd need to lock the involved UTXOs for some time etc
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06:26 < sipa> vasild: with some timeout? if it doesn't propagate at all, you may need to try resubmissions, or eventually, just broadcast anyway
06:26 < vasild> sipa: you mean to lock the UTXOs in order to avoid unintended double-spend?
06:27 < vasild> yes, with some timeout
06:27 < sipa> vasild: yes
06:27 < vasild> right, want to avoid double-spend
06:29 < sipa> waiting in BroadcastTransaction does sound easier, though probably not acceptable for some users
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06:30 < vasild> I can see how it could be a problem if it blocks the entire GUI, especially if it lasts more than a few seconds, OTOH then completed the user will know the tx is "seen by the network"
06:30 < vasild> s/then/when/
06:31 < vasild> maybe more acceptable for the sendrawtranscation RPC
06:31 < sipa> i'd say less acceptable, because it'll block any other RPCs during the same time
06:32 < vasild> Ooo
06:32 < sipa> no?
06:32 < sipa> at least any other wallet RPCs
06:32 < vasild> I do not know on top of by head how rpcs are synchronized
06:33 < sipa> well this would run while holding the relevant wallet lock at least
06:33 < vasild> :(
06:33 < sipa> i mean, by definition
06:33 < sipa> if you don't do that, what's the point of waiting?
06:34 < sipa> if other RPCs are possible during the incomplete state, you'll again make that incomplete state observable
06:35 < vasild> my point was to wait so that the tx gets in the mempool
06:36 < sipa> ah, but you'd add the transaction to the wallet before starting to wait for that, so that any other wallet RPC at the same time won't spend the same outputs?
06:37 < sipa> you'll still need a mechanism to prevent the transaction from being broadcast during that time, i think
06:37 < sipa> (e.g. if another dependent transaction gets added to the wallet through another RPC, while the first one is waiting)
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06:38 < vasild> "prevent the transaction from being broadcast"? you mean by other means than short-lived tor connection?
06:39 < sipa> right
06:40 < vasild> I assume this will be the case if BroadcastTransaction() does not add it to the mempool and does not call peerman->relaythistx()
06:40 < sipa> that does seem unlikely, but i'm still not convinced there wouldn't be any other ways the transaction's existence can leak out while the RPC would be waiting
06:40 < vasild> I mean peerman->RelayTransaction()
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06:43 < vasild> I will look at the code a bit more
06:44 < vasild> another issue with not adding the tx to the mempool is what happens if the node restarts before successfull broadcast. Would it be never broadcast? It would be necessary to provide some way to put the tx on disk and retry upon restart. This is now done "for free" by the mempool save/restore to disk.
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06:45 < sipa> yes, i think the proper way is having the responsibility entirely in the wallet
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06:46 < sipa> so the transaction would get stored in the wallet, in a special "unbroadcast" state
06:46 < sipa> and the wallet would be responsible for making the net logic make tor-only connections, and retrying, and eventually giving up
06:46 < vasild> that sounds proper
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06:47 < vasild> but sendrawtransaction rpc is different, I assume it can operate without wallet and/or be used for non-wallet transactions
06:48 < sipa> yeah
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06:48 < sipa> i guess there could be a walletsendrawtransaction RPC, which sends a transaction through a wallet (but it'd only work if it were relevant for that wallet)
06:48 < sipa> i guess that's a downside, that you can't get the tor-only submission for non-wallet transactions with this approach
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07:15 < vasild> or some independent module that stores the tx on disk and retries on restarts, called/used from the wallet and from the rpc
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07:21 < sipa> yes, perhaps - but you still can't do without some kind of wallet logic too (at the very least to lock the UTXOs)
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07:27 < furszy> I think that the locking is not needed. The IsTxTrusted skips transactions that are not in the mempool (unsafe)
07:27 < furszy> still, the best would be to have a new tx state. So the user sees the correct balance. 
07:28 < instagibbs> I might suggest splitting up the milestones to support the feature using "external" wallets, if that's easier to start with. Any wallet using bitcoind as backend could benefit in an opt-in way
07:29 < instagibbs> (maybe it's not easier, i haven't been paying attention)
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07:44 < vasild> instagibbs: I was thinking about the same - first do only for sendrawtransaction rpc
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07:47 < instagibbs> right approach imo, it's a huge userbase already
07:50 < vasild> Do you think I should just give up trying to put the tx in the mempool and hide it from the outside world? I don't think that's impossible. #27509 does this, except that I did not think well about the chain of transactions case. I think that can be amended too (to handle chain of transactions)
07:50 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27509 | Relay own transactions only via short-lived Tor or I2P connections by vasild · Pull Request #27509 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
07:52 < instagibbs> gut reaction, ignoring architectural difficulty, I think "failing private" in case of bug is better. Maybe there are cases you actually don't want that, but maybe clients can just be given a "force submission" flag to override it
07:52 < instagibbs> don't take my opinions too strongly, I have not been reviewing :)
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09:19 < furszy> self-correction after re-reading the convo: I rapidly thought that you were talking about the spend of the outputs of the tor relayed tx. What would happen if the user tried to spends them under the regular process while the other tx is being relayed..
09:19 < furszy> so, forget about the IsTxTrusted sentence.
09:20 < furszy> s/spends/spend
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09:25 < vasild> there is no IsTxTrusted in master, I was going to ask about it but forgot :)
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13:55 < PaperSwo2d> quit
13:55 < PaperSwo2d> quit
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14:10 < preimage> you dropped this /
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 30 00:00:43 2023