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03:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #29361: refactor: Fix timedata includes (master...2402-timedata-includes-) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29361
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03:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #29362: build: Add missed definition for `AM_OBJCXXFLAGS` (master...240201-objcxx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29362
03:56 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dergoegge closed pull request #29010: wip: Split fuzz binary (master...2023-12-split-fuzz) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29010
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04:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #29363: test: Fix CPartialMerkleTree.nTransactions signedness (master...2402-test-fix-sign-) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29363
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06:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
06:00 < TheCharlatan> hi
06:00 < sdaftuar> hi
06:00 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard aureleoules b10c BlueMatt brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge dongcarl fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jonatack josibake kallewoof kanzure kouloumos kvaciral laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr MacroFake Murch phantomcircuit pinheadmz promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa theStack TheCharlatan vasild
06:00 < sipa> hi
06:00 < abubakarsadiq> hi
06:01 < achow101> There are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week. Any last minute ones to add?
06:01 < furszy> hi
06:01 < dergoegge> hi
06:01 < LarryRuane> hi
06:01 < stickies-v> hi
06:01 < kanzure> hi
06:01 < achow101> #topic package relay updates (glozow)
06:01 < maxedw> hi
06:01 < josie> hi
06:01 < glozow> #28948 is the priority. It seems to be maturing
06:01 < cfields> hi
06:01 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28948 | v3 transaction policy for anti-pinning by glozow · Pull Request #28948 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:02 < kanzure> mailing list migration is still in progress, linuxfoundation.org has delivered the mbox file and i have stopped inbound emails for now
06:02 < achow101> kanzure: we can do that as a topic later
06:02 < glozow> We're looking to hear back from some more people on #29319 
06:02 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29319 | Cluster mempool, CPFP carveout, and V3 transaction policy · Issue #29319 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:02 < theStack> hi
06:02 < kanzure> achow101: i am AFK, just wanted to drop in. feel free to send questions or bug RubenSomsen.
06:03 < glozow> #28950 review club next week
06:03 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28950 | RPC: Add maxfeerate and maxburnamount args to submitpackage by instagibbs · Pull Request #28950 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:03 < kevkevin> hi
06:03 < hebasto> hi
06:03 < achow101> glozow: comments in 29319 shouldn't affect 28948, yes?
06:03 < sipa> #28948
06:03 < Murch[m]> hi
06:03 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28948 | v3 transaction policy for anti-pinning by glozow · Pull Request #28948 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:04 < glozow> v3 shouldn't be blocked by it
06:04 < RubenSomsen> hi
06:04 < sdaftuar> but if somehow the v3 proposal doesn't meet the needs of LN we should give some thought to how to proceed
06:04 < fjahr> hi
06:05 < sdaftuar> as the parameters have been chosen to be compatible with that usecase
06:05 < glozow> That's true.
06:05 < achow101> ok, makes sense
06:06 < achow101> #topic silent payments updates (josie)
06:06 < josie> #28122 is the priority for review
06:06 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28122 | Silent Payments: Implement BIP352 by josibake · Pull Request #28122 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:07 < josie> also, theStack opened a draft silentpayments libsecp module in secp256k1/#1471
06:07 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1471 | Add new P2P command and response: "getcmds", "cmdlist" by jgarzik · Pull Request #1471 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:07 < josie> looking for feedback on the module API
06:08 < achow101> what's the secp module for?
06:08 < josie> all the crypto parts of silent payments, basically 
06:09 < achow101> iirc libsecp has enough stuff exposed to implement silent payments, so it's just to abstract some of that away?
06:10 < sipa> not efficiently
06:10 < josie> yeah, not efficiently and not ideal 
06:10 < willcl-ark> hi
06:10 < fjahr> Does #28122 use the module already?
06:10 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28122 | Silent Payments: Implement BIP352 by josibake · Pull Request #28122 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:10 < sipa> and it'd be using fairly low-level operations (pubkey addition) which we'd like to get rid of
06:11 < sipa> the trend in libsecp256k1 has been to focus on higher-level, hard-to-abuse, APIs
06:11 < josie> fjahr: nope, but thats a good question.. when we spoke about it last coredev, the expectation was that a secp module would move slower and its fine to continue with the PR as is with the plan to use the module when its ready 
06:11 < fanquake> sounds like something we don't want to start doing in our codebase. If it's going to be a blocker to upstream making changes and or us pulling updates
06:12 < josie> sipa: which is good for other implementations as well! if we had a high level, hard to abuse api, it de-risks wallets outside of core implementing bip352
06:12 < sipa> indeed
06:12 < achow101> i'd much rather not have to review basically 2 different implementations
06:13 < achow101> so if the secp is likely to happen, then it should go first
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06:13 < achow101> and 28122 should use it
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06:13 < josie> im fine with that! and agree that reviewing two in tandem is gross. honestly wasnt expecting the secp module to make progress as quickly as it did (h/t theStack)
06:13 < fjahr> yeah, if the module is used right away that will motivate more people to review secp faster as well.
06:14 < josie> cool, well then per this discussion ill update #28122 to use the libsecp module 
06:14 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28122 | Silent Payments: Implement BIP352 by josibake · Pull Request #28122 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:14 < josie> which should help make the API discussion more productive, since we will have at least one user of the API
06:15 < josie> thats all for me
06:15 < achow101> #topic multiprocess updates (ryanofsky)
06:16 < ryanofsky> #28921 was merged, #28929 is out for review, and I will open a new PR soon with 3 commits from the multiprocess branch #10102 exposing interfaces::Chain over IPC
06:16 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28921 | multiprocess: Add basic type conversion hooks by ryanofsky · Pull Request #28921 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:16 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28929 | serialization: Support for multiple parameters by ryanofsky · Pull Request #28929 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:16 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10102 | Multiprocess bitcoin by ryanofsky · Pull Request #10102 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:16 < ryanofsky> That's all for me
06:17 < achow101> #topic Ad-hoc high priority for review
06:17 < achow101> Anything to add or remove from https://github.com/orgs/bitcoin/projects/1/views/4
06:17 < achow101> Or any other topics to discuss?
06:17 < sipa> i'd like to briefly bring up #29284
06:17 <@gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29284 | Choose earliest-activatable as tie breaker between equal-work chains by sipa · Pull Request #29284 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
06:17 < achow101> sipa: as a topic?
06:18 < sipa> in theory, it's a huge change, in practice i don't think it'll really affect anything
06:18 < sipa> but i'd like to draw some attention to it
06:19 < sipa> that's it, unless people have questions
06:20 < vasild> hi
06:22 < sipa> s/huge/fundamental/
06:22 < achow101> anything else to talk about?
06:22 < josie> if there are no other topics, is there q update on the mailing list?
06:23 < vasild> where is the mailing list migrating to?
06:23 < achow101> last I heard, mailing list is actually shutting down imminently and will be moving to groups.io. Maybe RubenSomsen can provide more details?
06:23 < sipa> kanzure: i am baffled to hear "i am AFK" coming from you
06:24 < _aj_> sipa: neuralink announced its first human subject the other day?
06:24 < RubenSomsen> I found some issues with groups io, we've been talking with them to get it resolved
06:24 < Murch[m]> Good point, I thought kanzure and his keyboard were a permanent cybernetic system
06:25 < achow101> RubenSomsen: can you say what kind of issues?
06:25 < RubenSomsen> We might still opt for Google groups depending on how it pans out
06:25 < josie> in the meanwhile, is delving the best place for soliciting feedback on proposals? 
06:26 < RubenSomsen> Emails had an unsubscribe link that required no authentication. Forwarding an email would allow whoever received the email to unsubscribe you.
06:26 < sipa> RubenSomsen: ouch
06:26 < sipa> delving seems to be starting to get a pretty good crowd
06:27 < RubenSomsen> Imo the mailing list should continue to exist, and delving alongside it
06:27 < achow101> any idea when the migration will be completed?
06:28 < achow101> no longer being able to send to the list now is kinda bothersome, especially for conversations that were happening on the list and not elsewhere
06:29 < vasild> what would a migration look like? a migration of some web-archive of past emails, or would existent subscribers would automatically be subscribed to e.g. bitcoin@groups.io?
06:29 < RubenSomsen> The bug was just fixed. I just tested and confirmed. We want to finalize things soon. Especially if we're stopping emails on the current list that forces us to do something asap.
06:30 < sipa> great
06:32 < RubenSomsen> vasild: to be determined, but it may be cleaner to let people re-subscribe. We have a lot of weird subscribers that are probably spam.
06:32 < achow101> presumably there'll be a final email on the current list with instructions
06:33 < RubenSomsen> yeah
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06:33 < vasild> ok, so it looks like there is nothing to be migrated? just a new list people can use (subscribe and send emails to)?
06:33 < sipa> given the mbox comment, i guess the history will be imported?
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06:34 < vasild> right, which I guess will be available via some kind of web ui?
06:34 < achow101> wherever the new official archive is, I think history will also be imported there too, so it'll all be in one place. otherwise, it's just a new mailing list
06:35 < RubenSomsen> I think that's more for archiving purposes than importing.
06:35 < sipa> RubenSomsen: oh, unfortunate
06:35 < RubenSomsen> We have to archive the new mailing list somewhere too, so maybe that place can host both the new and old archive
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06:37 < achow101> anything else to discuss?
06:38 < RubenSomsen> I'd be curious to hear if anyone has strong objections to Google groups. We're currently experimenting with both.
06:39 < maxedw> Is one free and one not? Does that factor?
06:39 < vasild> is it going to be this one https://groups.io/g/bitcoindev ?
06:39 < RubenSomsen> If we're going with groups io then yes, but that's to be determined
06:39 < vasild> RubenSomsen: not sure if that counts as "strong objection", but I would not subscribe to google groups
06:40 < RubenSomsen> groups is unfortunately paid per subscriber, which could potentially be an issue if we get mass subscription spam
06:41 < RubenSomsen> vasild: it would be helpful to know why you wouldn't
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06:42 < sipa> how many subscribers does the current list have?
06:42 < vasild> RubenSomsen: because I think it is against bitcoin mindset (at least my mindset) and also against an attempt to de-google myself
06:42 < RubenSomsen> 2000 
06:43 < _aj_> if groups.io fixes things when you complain, that seems like it's probably better than what you'd get from google?
06:43 < vasild> (not trying to focrce my opinion on anybody, I don't mind if people are happy with google groups, it is just that I will not use it)
06:43 < RubenSomsen> _aj_: Yes, we're happy with how responsive they've been.
06:45 < RubenSomsen> Sorry 4000, misremembered
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06:45 < vasild> $0.04 per member per month, that is $160/month (https://groups.io/static/pricing)
06:46 < achow101> i guess the main thing is that groups.io could get expensive?
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06:46 < RubenSomsen> We can easily find people to sponsor that amount, but if we get spammed with subscribers that could become an issue
06:46 < sipa> i do agree with vasild' sentiment about google groups, though pragmatically, i would still subscribe
06:47 < vasild> achow101: yeah, that $0.04 may be rised in the future
06:47 < _aj_> setup a btcpay store and require people to pay 50c to stay subscribed after a year?
06:47 < sipa> and groups.io is probably not that different from a cost for hosting ourselves if we need to pay people to maintain things
06:48 < hebasto> if there is possibility to spam some adversary will use it
06:48 < sipa> RubenSomsen: is there some kind of spam protection we could get? like if there is a sudden influx of subscribers that get kicked quickly, we don't get billed for it?
06:48 < vasild> too many spam/unwanted subscribers should be a common problem for any group at groups.io, how do they solve it?
06:49 < sipa> maybe this discussion belongs elsewhere, though
06:49 < _aj_> on the mailing list? :)
06:49 < RubenSomsen> sipa: I sent them my concern about mass subscription and am awaiting the reply. Hopefully they have some thoughts.
06:49 < sipa> _aj_: i thought there was an IRC channel about discussing the migration too
06:49 < vasild> even groups.io have incentive to sneak some moderate dummy subscribers themselves
06:49 < achow101> There's a ##bitcoin-dev-lists channel
06:50 < RubenSomsen> Yeah let's take this there
06:50 < achow101> seems like there wasn't anything else to discuss for today
06:50 < achow101> #endmeeting
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07:48 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] knst opened pull request #29364: refactor: Remove excess reserve() call for SecureString (master...bitcoin-knst-secure-string) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29364
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07:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/aa9231fafe45...f879c1b24afd
07:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master facaa66 MarcoFalke: refactor: Add missing default constructor to prevector iterators
07:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa44a60 MarcoFalke: refactor: Fix constness for prevector iterators
07:58 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fab8a01 MarcoFalke: refactor: Fix binary operator+ for prevector iterators
07:58 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #29275: refactor: Fix prevector iterator concept issues (master...2401-prev-it-) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29275
08:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f879c1b24afd...5b8c5970bdfc
08:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 25dc87e Cory Fields: libconsensus: deprecate
08:11 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5b8c597 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#29189: RFC: Deprecate libconsensus
08:11 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #29189: RFC: Deprecate libconsensus (master...deprecate-libconsensus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29189
08:12 < fanquake> 🥹
08:12 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #28661: libconsensus: adapt API header to be compliant to ANSI C (master...202310-libconsensus-ansi_c_api_header) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/28661
08:14 -!- test_ is now known as _flood
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08:24 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheCharlatan closed pull request #29123: build: Remove HAVE_CONSENSUS_LIB (master...noconsensus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29123
08:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] starius opened pull request #29365: Extend signetchallenge to set target block spacing (master...signet-blockitme-in-challenge) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29365
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09:06 < josie> fanquake: end of an era
09:09 < PaperSword> Why is there 4K weight units subtracted from template generation by default?
09:09 < PaperSword> static constexpr unsigned int DEFAULT_BLOCK_MAX_WEIGHT{MAX_BLOCK_WEIGHT - 4000};
09:09 < PaperSword> Is there a technical reason or just some safety margin?
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09:15 < glozow> PaperSword: margin for the coinbase
09:18 < PaperSword> So if one modifies their coinbase to use over that 4000WUs then you could generate invalid blocks if you don't adjust that parameter to account for the added size.
09:19 < PaperSword> btw thank you for the response.
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11:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Christewart closed pull request #29265: Add `SigVersion` parameter to `IsOpSuccess()` (master...2024-01-17-isopsuccess-leafver) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29265
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15:14 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #29367: wallet: Set descriptors flag after migrating blank wallets (master...set-descriptors-flag-migrated-blank) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29367
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 02 00:00:47 2024