--- Log opened Fri Oct 31 00:00:36 2014 00:02 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:07 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:07 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:09 -!- penny [~linker@113.161.87.238] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:10 -!- penny is now known as Guest94621 00:19 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@cpe-72-182-49-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:20 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:2871:d034:ff9f:a503] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:20 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25 < gmaxwell> Sounds like the description "atomic cross chain transactions" has now been taken by yet another altcoin pumper :( http://cointelegraph.com/news/112812/atomic-a-decentralized-ledger-for-all-blockchain-based-technology (just a heads up in case you talk about them and encounter confusion) 00:26 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, lol @ obviously fake name 00:28 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-7-86.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29 -!- arowser1 [~arowser@106.120.101.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:29 -!- arowser [~arowser@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:30 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:32 <@gwillen> gmaxwell: are they actually doing things, or are they just mkaing up words 00:32 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:32 <@gwillen> because like ... wtf @ about half of that 00:35 < gmaxwell> certantly not doing much based on that, but enough that it's pressing it up. oh well. 00:39 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40 -!- vmatekole [~vmatekole@e179163046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:46 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ZZZzzz…] 06:00 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:2871:d034:ff9f:a503] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:00 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:11 -!- vdo [~vdo@unaffiliated/vdo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:16 -!- Alanius [~alanius@ssh2.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- Guest94621 [~linker@118.69.162.9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@e120-pool-d89a75c9.brdbnd.voicenetwork.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:21 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:29 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:40 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@158pc208.sshunet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:40 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:42 -!- zooko [~user@c-75-70-204-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:43 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f1331f3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:49 -!- zooko [~user@c-75-70-204-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@e120-pool-d89a75c9.brdbnd.voicenetwork.ca] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:57 -!- torsthaldo [~torsthald@unaffiliated/torsthaldo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:57 -!- peterlie [~peterlie@99-127-231-33.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:01 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:d00:870:bc98:a546:27c8:ae8b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:06 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07 -!- digitalmagus [~digitalma@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:08 -!- digitalmagus [~digitalma@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:13 < dgenr8> the code sergio posted doesn't actually simulate a random walk. it's actually just an overly complex way of computing the value of .3/.7 07:18 < helo> heh 07:26 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:50 -!- tacotime [~mashkeys@198.52.200.63] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:52 -!- Aquent [~Aquent@gateway/tor-sasl/aquent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:55 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56 -!- Dr-G3 [~Dr-G@gateway/tor-sasl/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:59 -!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@gateway/tor-sasl/dr-g] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:10 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:11 -!- peterlie [~peterlie@99-127-231-33.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16 -!- KingCoin 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reset by peer] 10:03 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:03 < cryptokeeper> Happy 6 Year Anniversary to the digital currency Bitcoin & the creator - Satoshi Nakamoto! On the day of Halloween. Spo0ky. 10:11 -!- vdo [~vdo@unaffiliated/vdo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:31 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-226-242.play-internet.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:33 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-226-242.play-internet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33 < fluffypony> cryptokeeper: it's the 3rd of January already? 10:33 < fluffypony> wow time flies, here I thought it was October 10:33 < justanotheruser> fluffypony: whitepaper release was today 10:33 < fluffypony> justanotheruser: I know, I was being facetious ;) 10:36 < Luke-Jr> cryptokeeper: you misspelled All Hallows' Eve :P 10:39 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:44 -!- zwischenzug [~zwischenz@33.Red-79-158-209.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:49 < cryptokeeper> fluffypony; oct 31 was the date the bitcoin whitepaper got published 10:58 -!- dansmith_btc [dansmith3@unaffiliated/dansmith-btc/x-0355117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03 -!- woah [~woah@75-101-111-82.dedicated.static.sonic.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:07 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-226-242.play-internet.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:14 -!- crowex [~crowex@88-106-107-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:2871:d034:ff9f:a503] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:20 < andytoshi> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=685269.0 11:20 < andytoshi> "I have some more questions if you don't mind, because I'm still convinced a messaging scheme like this could be made very secure: 11:20 < andytoshi> gaaa! 11:21 < helo> interesting scheme 11:21 < e4xit> ? 11:21 < justanotheruser> meh, just wait for him to try it then if its insecure you can point out the problems concretely rather than abstractly 11:22 -!- zooko [~user@67-6-128-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23 -!- Aquent [~Aquent@gateway/tor-sasl/aquent] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23 -!- Aquent1 [~Aquent@gateway/tor-sasl/aquent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23 < andytoshi> well, that thread is actually a couple months old (was bumped recently by an unrelated party). but it's frustrating to always see people saying "welll i think i can patch this" instead of stepping back and saying "i need to prove a proper security property that does not depend on specific usecases being avoided" 11:23 < andytoshi> justanotheruser: gmax pointed out a concrete problem, hence the "i'm still convinced it could be made secure" comment 11:24 < justanotheruser> he will modify it quite a bit to avoid that problem which means he will make a new set of problems that require more work by smarter people to find problems with 11:29 < gmaxwell> Yea, the resulting property is "security against review" 11:30 < andytoshi> i'm posting a reply that talks about (a) mixing cryptosystems, (b) using standard/general security properties 11:36 -!- wserd [d069531a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.208.105.83.26] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:40 -!- bigdaddyBTC [3ffbf89c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.63.251.248.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:48 < andytoshi> done 12:01 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:04 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-85.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:13 -!- Muis [sid26074@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qedbqwtuedesqnay] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:14 -!- Muis [sid26074@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvoxunsohhbfhdwt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:14 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:15 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:16 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:16 -!- Transisto [~Trans@modemcable026.188-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:16 < Taek> Proof of Gateway? lol 12:23 -!- Transisto [~Trans@modemcable026.188-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:24 -!- Nomos7 [~textual@pool-71-163-233-84.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 15:48 -!- Nomos7 [~textual@pool-71-163-233-84.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:52 -!- maraoz [~maraoz@181.29.97.171] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:53 -!- Nomos7 [~textual@pool-71-163-233-84.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:58 -!- zooko [~user@67-6-128-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:05 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:22 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:26 -!- kerneloops [~tuomas@cpe-76-174-177-43.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:34 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:39 -!- KingCoin [~KingCoin@unaffiliated/kingcoin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:40 -!- Dr-G3 [~Dr-G@gateway/tor-sasl/dr-g] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:40 -!- Dr-G3 [~Dr-G@gateway/tor-sasl/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:46 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:47 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:48 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:49 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:54 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@D979E961.cm-3-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:55 -!- comboy_ [~quassel@tesuji.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55 -!- comboy [~quassel@tesuji.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:59 -!- gandalf [4b4ae262@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.74.226.98] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:00 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:00 < gandalf> are there any limits to cross chain trading? 17:02 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05 -!- zooko [~user@67-6-128-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:05 < justanotheruser> gandalf: you mean atomic swaps? theres some sidechain rules here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading#Opcodes_and_altchain_special_rules 17:06 -!- rdponticelli [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:06 < gandalf> are there time limitations to two way atomic swapping? 17:06 < justanotheruser> if you want it to be secure 17:08 < gandalf> so 10 minutes? =( 17:08 < gandalf> i saw this post about a blocknet 17:09 < gandalf> someone trying to tokenize this system 17:09 < justanotheruser> lol 10 minutes 17:09 < justanotheruser> IIRC 2 days was proposed 17:09 < gandalf> -_- 17:10 < gandalf> does it make sense for an OT voting pool to have a mini blockchain? 17:10 < justanotheruser> gandalf: what? Do you want coins disappearing when a large reorg happens? 17:10 < gandalf> not at all 17:11 < justanotheruser> gandalf: I'm not sure a blockchain is the best datastructure when you have a central authority se 17:11 < justanotheruser> set 17:11 < gandalf> what do you mean central authority i thought voting pools would be decentralized as well 17:11 < gandalf> as in anyone could host them 17:13 < justanotheruser> gandalf: whatever, you want to call it, it is a set of authorities that control funds and I don't think a blockchain is a necessary datastructure. You don't need people to catch up and validate that all their actions were valid or invalid. 17:14 < gandalf> well what if people require trust from them? like refunds? 17:15 < gandalf> meh never mind i guess thsoe would be stored in bitcoin's blockchain 17:15 < justanotheruser> yep. 17:16 -!- zooko [~user@67-6-128-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:17 < justanotheruser> I mean, any person in that voting pool could store all the transactions that they saw chronologically, but those transactions have no effect on where the money goes unless these central authorities decide to have it go there. 17:17 -!- KingCoin [~KingCoin@unaffiliated/kingcoin] has quit [Quit: KingCoin] 17:18 -!- KingCoin [~KingCoin@unaffiliated/kingcoin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:18 < gandalf> does open transactions allow peer to peer discovery through a dht? 17:22 -!- phantomcircuit [~phantomci@blockchain.ceo] has quit [Quit: quit] 17:23 -!- phantomcircuit [~phantomci@blockchain.ceo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:26 -!- zwischenzug [~zwischenz@33.Red-79-158-209.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:31 -!- dzan [~dzan@78-21-223-140.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@D979E961.cm-3-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:40 -!- gandalf [4b4ae262@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.74.226.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:40 -!- maraoz [~maraoz@181.29.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:40 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:46 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46 -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:49 -!- KingCoin [~KingCoin@unaffiliated/kingcoin] has quit [Quit: KingCoin] 18:01 -!- ryanxcharles [~ryan@162.245.22.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@CPE-69-23-221-39.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:03 -!- woah [~woah@75-101-111-82.dedicated.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:05 -!- Keefe [~Keefe@unaffiliated/keefe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08 -!- Keefe [~Keefe@unaffiliated/keefe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:33 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-esumdclhirevkgdw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:35 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:2871:d034:ff9f:a503] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:37 -!- zooko [~user@67-6-128-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:38 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:2871:d034:ff9f:a503] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:40 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:41 -!- bigdaddyBTC [3ffbf89c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.63.251.248.156] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 18:42 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:46 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:57 < gmaxwell> groan: 'but when I was learning algebra, my professor, in an attempt to impress upon us the necessity of checking that certain maps are well-defined, told us the story of a classmate of his who got several years into his Ph.D. thesis before realizing that the maps he was investigating weren't well defined. Horrified, we asked him if this was true. 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