--- Log opened Tue Feb 17 00:00:04 2015
--- Day changed Tue Feb 17 2015
00:00 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:01 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-2-97-230-239.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:02 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:02 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:13 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@223.180.48.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:14 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
00:16 -!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:17 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:17 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtagg_@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:20 -!- lclc is now known as lclc_bnc
00:21 < petertodd> Ok, I think I came with the best name ever for anti-replay/anti-doublespend single-use-seals: Lazy Commitments.
00:21 -!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:21 < petertodd> Basically, like a normal commitment you commit to a value in advance. However because you haven't actually figured out what the value is yet, you do it lazily.
00:21 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@223.180.48.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
00:24 < nsh> heh
00:24 < nsh> how do you commit to an un{known|evaluated} value?
00:25 < petertodd> A binary tree of lazy commitments naturally leads to a Lazy Set Commitment: you commit to a set, and when you figure out what should actually be in the set you gradually populate branches of the tree.
00:25 < petertodd> nsh: with bitcoin! (or trust)
00:25 < petertodd> nsh: your homework: figure out how
00:26 < nsh> hrm
00:27 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:30 -!- Mably [56401ec5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.197] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:32 < petertodd> @encthenet came up with a good one: "Schrödinger's commitment scheme: you commit to a value, but you don't know what it is still the big reveal."
00:34 -!- Mably [56401ec5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
00:34 < petertodd> and... that's actually what PayPub/Darkleaks does! the commitment is to use use the blockchain as a random beacon, and you don't know what the value will be until later!
00:37 < nsh> wait
00:37 < nsh> this solves timelock
00:37 < petertodd> ?
00:37 < nsh> timelock encryption. if can encrypt content so that it can only be decrypted with certain coin-spends
00:37 < nsh> then you can do that to m_timelock'd inputs and solve timelock encryption
00:38 < nsh> or am i missing things
00:38 -!- CoinMuncher1 [~jannes@ip54544d54.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:38 < phantomcircuit> nsh, timelock stuff is mostly not useful for these things because they're expensive to validate that there isn't a solution
00:38 -!- Mably [56401ec5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.197] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:39 < petertodd> lolol! the problem is your Schrödinger commitment scheme needs to have the operation to derive a pubkey now from the secret key to be revealed later - blockchain as random beacon doesn't support that operation
00:39 < nsh> 'Files are split into segments and encrypted. These segments are unlocked only when the leaker reveals the key by claiming his Bitcoins.'  from darkleaks coverage
00:39 < nsh> probably reading too much into that
00:40 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
00:40 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:41 < nsh> well, it should try harder :)
00:41 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:42 < petertodd> nsh: ah, but see, there's a step where you commit to revealing part of the leak in advance, and that part is determiend by what the blockchain hash will be some time in the future
00:43 -!- CoinMuncher1 [~jannes@ip54544d54.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
00:43 < nsh> oh, hmm
00:44 < nsh> ah, i get it
00:44 < nsh> that's clever
00:44 < nsh> devilish even :)
00:49 < nsh> should be able to use this to bootstrap a pretty interesting class of interactive games too
00:49 < nsh> and protocols
00:50 < petertodd> for sure
00:58 -!- lclc_bnc is now known as lclc
01:00 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:04 -!- btcdrak [uid52049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lsfxbbgxhocqdpvg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:05 -!- andy-logbot [~bitcoin--@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:05 -!- andy-logbot [~bitcoin--@wpsoftware.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:05  * andy-logbot is logging
01:17 -!- shesek [~shesek@IGLD-84-229-146-213.inter.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
01:17 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-2-97-230-239.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
01:21 -!- mpmcsweeney [~mpmcsween@c-50-189-4-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:22 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:25 -!- mpmcsweeney [~mpmcsween@c-50-189-4-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:26 -!- tlrobinson [~tlrobinso@204.14.159.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:26 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@net-2-38-211-181.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:29 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@91.206.81.13] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:31 < gmaxwell> nsh: yea, though sadly the utility is kind of narrow. The class of information where a random sample doesn't stand a risk of giving away all the value, and where the value can't be sapped by a few careful redactions which sampling is unlikely to reveal (even if it hits them, you can't tell what was missing), I think is not so broad.
01:32 < nsh> hmm, perhaps
01:32 -!- HaltingState [~HaltingSt@unaffiliated/haltingstate] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:33 < gmaxwell> I'd talked before in here a while back on doing the same trick with images (sampling over pixels) to construct very low res versions....  it might work better for that.
01:34 -!- tlrobinson [~tlrobinso@204.14.159.161] has quit [Quit: tlrobinson]
01:36 -!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:36 -!- adam3us1 [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:39 -!- coinheavy [~coinheavy@2602:306:ce9f:f5b0:bd0a:3e43:5a48:88b1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:40 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:41 < petertodd> gmaxwell: oh damn, why didn't I already think of that images trick?
01:41 < petertodd> gmaxwell: could do the same thing with audio too I bet
01:41 -!- tlrobinson [~tlrobinso@204.14.159.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:42 < petertodd> gmaxwell: a_d fo_ t_at m__ter w__h te__ doc___n_s li__ b__ks __d _epor__
01:43 < petertodd> gmaxwell: (maybe not that last one)
01:44 < petertodd> you know, the class of information where sampling doesn't risk "giving it all away" is actually most strongly the obvious one: artistic works
01:46 -!- flower [~user@202.44.238.15] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
01:48 < nsh> maybe you can apply a holographic transformation to a file so that any revealed segment attests to the well-distributedness of the original information throughout the whole
01:48 < nsh> that seems more dubious after articulation :/
01:49 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:49 < gmaxwell> petertodd: there is a long description of the image version in here a while back (including where I pointed out that you can use signal processing from compressed sensing to construct a good image from a random sample)
01:49 < gmaxwell> maybe a year or so ago?
01:51 -!- shesek [~shesek@87.68.240.156.adsl.012.net.il] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:51 < nsh> actually, it's not so dubious. you can oversample the bits of the original and then do fourier transform
01:51 < petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, pretty obvious idea in hind sight
01:51 < nsh> but whether or not that could be faked is more open
01:52 -!- flower [~user@202.44.238.15] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:52 < nsh> oh, something vaguely like this exists even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_algorithm
01:52 < gmaxwell> nsh: you can always fake it, alas, e.g. the 'original' may be low resolution in reality.
01:52 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.157.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:52  * nsh nods
01:52 < nsh> perhaps you can commit to the total 'sum resolution' separately somehow
01:52 < petertodd> gmaxwell: make the sampling be a combination of randomly distributed points, and a randomly chosen chunk
01:53 < petertodd> gmaxwell: or really, the density of points randomly sampled should itself be random over the picture
01:54 < gmaxwell> random alone achieves that, but the problem is that it can be very hard to tell if it wasn't crapped up just by downsampling and then adding noise based on the lower res image.
01:54 < nsh> hrmm
01:54 < nsh> that seems like an improvement
01:55 < petertodd> gmaxwell: right, but if you have some of the image being high density points, or 100% reveal, that noise will be revealed
01:55 < petertodd> gmaxwell: equally, if every additinal bit of data revealed incrementally reveales more detail, at least the revenue stops when the fraud is revealed
01:55 < nsh> i think you can bound the difference in quality against likelihood of detection
01:56 < petertodd> nsh: probably
01:56 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:01 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:06 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:08 -!- coinheavy [~coinheavy@2602:306:ce9f:f5b0:bd0a:3e43:5a48:88b1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:08 -!- coinheavy [~coinheavy@2602:306:ce9f:f5b0:bd0a:3e43:5a48:88b1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:12 -!- p15_ [~p15@182.50.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
02:12 -!- p15 [~p15@114.244.151.115] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:12 < nsh> --
02:12 < nsh> The idea of timestamping information is actually centuries old. For example, when Robert Hooke discovered Hooke's law in 1660, he did not want to publish it yet, but wanted to be able to claim priority. So he published the anagram ceiiinosssttuv and later published the translation ut tensio sic vis (Latin for "as is the extension, so is the force"). Similarly, Galileo first published his discovery of the phases of Venus in the anagram form.
02:12 < nsh> -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping
02:12 < nsh> (TIL)
02:13 -!- coinheavy [~coinheavy@2602:306:ce9f:f5b0:bd0a:3e43:5a48:88b1] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
02:14 < Zouppen> cool
02:14 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:16 < Zouppen> that quote needs citation
02:19 < nsh> ( http://gadyasblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/ceiiinosssttuv-hookes-law-more-commonly.html // http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200811/backpage.cfm )
02:19 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.157.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:20 -!- Mably [56401ec5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
02:21 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.134.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:25 -!- lclc is now known as lclc_bnc
02:30 -!- siraj__ [~siraj@106.221.134.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:30 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.134.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:34 -!- coiner [~linker@113.190.61.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:41 -!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:43 -!- shesek [~shesek@87.68.240.156.adsl.012.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:02 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:06 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
03:10 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
03:17 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:27 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-181-128-67.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:33 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
03:34 -!- Starduster_ [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:37 -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
03:46 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@tardis-6.krellan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
03:50 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@tardis-6.krellan.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:51 -!- p15 [~p15@114.244.151.115] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
03:54 -!- p15 [~p15@114.244.151.115] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:55 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-162-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:24 -!- use_zfs_yo_ [uid22802@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqkyljlbljqyzdrl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:25 -!- use_zfs_yo_ [uid22802@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqkyljlbljqyzdrl] has quit [Client Quit]
04:34 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
05:03 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:08 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
05:08 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:17 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:17 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]
05:17 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:18 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
05:25 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE687f74122463-CM84948c2e0610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
05:33 -!- HaltingState [~HaltingSt@unaffiliated/haltingstate] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:40 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-229-125.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:42 -!- prodatalab [~prodatala@c-69-254-45-177.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
05:44 -!- prodatalab [~prodatala@c-69-254-45-177.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:45 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-229-125.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
05:46 -!- lclc_bnc is now known as lclc
05:46 -!- afk11 [~thomas@89.100.72.184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:56 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@cpe-98-157-219-44.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:01 < Adlai> mappum: how (in)sane would it be to run mercury in a blockchain against itself as a decentralized coinswap market?
06:04 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:07 -!- mpmcsweeney [~mpmcsween@c-98-217-146-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:08 -!- delll_ [~chatzilla@yh97.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:08 -!- mpmcswee_ [~mpmcsween@c-50-189-4-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:09 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
06:10 -!- delll_ [~chatzilla@yh97.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:12 -!- mpmcsweeney [~mpmcsween@c-98-217-146-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
06:12 < Adlai> https://gist.github.com/adlai/976d308efdb2e886ecb9   'revisions' link includes the orignial text by gmaxwell
06:12 -!- lclc is now known as lclc_bnc
06:14  * Adlai takes https://gist.github.com/adlai/976d308efdb2e886ecb9#file-coinswap-txt-L24 to suggest that Alice should be the participant who cares more about anonymity, whereas Bob should be incentivized for the risk of being deanonymized
06:14 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
06:17 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-162-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:22 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:23 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:23 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:23 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]
06:23 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:24 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:24 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:24 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]
06:24 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:24 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:35 -!- dignork [~dignork@unaffiliated/dignork] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:37 -!- torsthaldo [~torsthald@unaffiliated/torsthaldo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:39 -!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
06:40 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:42 -!- dosk [~dosk@ip184-180-245-185.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:44 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:44 -!- torsthaldo [~torsthald@unaffiliated/torsthaldo] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:45 -!- torsthaldo [~torsthald@unaffiliated/torsthaldo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:51 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:52 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:52 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@pool-71-187-155-106.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]
06:52 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:56 -!- siraj__ [~siraj@106.221.134.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:01 -!- adam3us1 [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:01 -!- torsthaldo [~torsthald@unaffiliated/torsthaldo] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
07:02 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:05 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:10 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
07:28 -!- mpmcswee_ [~mpmcsween@c-50-189-4-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
07:28 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:34 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:37 -!- grandmaster [dansmith3@knows.the.cops.are.investigat.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:38 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f1171b4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:42 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:42 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:46 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:48 -!- jgarzik [~jgarzik@unaffiliated/jgarzik] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:48 -!- jgarzik [~jgarzik@104-178-201-106.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:48 -!- jgarzik [~jgarzik@104-178-201-106.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host]
07:48 -!- jgarzik [~jgarzik@unaffiliated/jgarzik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:59 -!- binaryatrocity [~atr0phy.n@unaffiliated/br4n] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:59 -!- binaryatrocity [~atr0phy.n@69.85.87.117] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:06 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:07 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.134.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:11 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
08:17 -!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@gateway-nat.fmrib.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:17 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
08:18 -!- CoinMuncher1 [~jannes@ip54544d54.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:19 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
08:19 -!- CoinMuncher2 [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:20 -!- CoinMuncher2 [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Client Quit]
08:23 -!- CoinMuncher1 [~jannes@ip54544d54.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
08:28 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:30 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:31 -!- buttsniff [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:40 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-72-116-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:44 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-162-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:56 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:01 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
09:03 -!- ryanxcharles [~ryanxchar@2601:9:4680:dd0:d4ab:21e8:88ef:dcd6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:05 -!- Profreid [~Profreitt@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/profreid] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:07 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:07 -!- richardkiss [~richardki@108-94-29-170.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:08 -!- buttsniff is now known as grubles
09:11 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:11 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:13 -!- anthony [~anthony@cpe-71-79-150-145.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:13 -!- anthony is now known as Guest75489
09:15 -!- Mably_ [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:21 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye]
09:21 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:22 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.134.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:24 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
09:27 -!- Mably__ [56401ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:27 -!- Mably__ [56401ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.195] has quit [Client Quit]
09:27 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:28 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has quit [Client Quit]
09:28 -!- grandmaster [dansmith3@knows.the.cops.are.investigat.in] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:28 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-72-116-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jps]
09:29 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-72-116-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:36 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@INTERFIBRA-37-25-40-160.CPEs.villena.interfibra.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:40 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-72-116-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jps]
09:44 -!- shesek [~shesek@87.68.240.156.adsl.012.net.il] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:48 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:50 -!- Starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:52 -!- delll_ [~chatzilla@yh97.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
09:53 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:53 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:55 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
09:56 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@INTERFIBRA-37-25-40-160.CPEs.villena.interfibra.es] has quit [Changing host]
09:56 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/embicoin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:57 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@ns372404.ip-94-23-252.eu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:57 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@ns372404.ip-94-23-252.eu] has quit [Changing host]
09:57 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:57 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:02 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:03 -!- GAit [~lnahum@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:04 -!- Mably_ [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:05 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
10:05 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-72-116-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:05 -!- GAit [~lnahum@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:06 -!- embicoin_ [~chatzilla@INTERFIBRA-37-25-40-160.CPEs.villena.interfibra.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:07 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/embicoin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
10:07 -!- embicoin_ is now known as embicoin
10:07 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@INTERFIBRA-37-25-40-160.CPEs.villena.interfibra.es] has quit [Changing host]
10:07 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/embicoin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:09 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@ns372404.ip-94-23-252.eu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:09 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@ns372404.ip-94-23-252.eu] has quit [Changing host]
10:09 -!- starsoccer [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:09 < mappum> Adlai: why create another blockchain? bitcoin should work just fine
10:09 < mappum> i hadn't looked closely at coinswap before, it seems to basically be an enhanced version of atomic swaps to make the transactions not associated with each other
10:10 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-162-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:14 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:17 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:20 -!- richardkiss [~richardki@108-94-29-170.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: richardkiss]
10:28 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@91.206.81.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:29 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
10:29 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has quit [Quit: Quit]
10:39 -!- tlrobinson [~tlrobinso@204.14.159.161] has quit [Quit: tlrobinson]
10:39 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.209.102.244] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:40 < siraj_> http://blog.onename.com/blockstore-bitcoin/ interesting
10:40 -!- tlrobinson [~tlrobinso@204.14.159.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:40 -!- tlrobinson [~tlrobinso@204.14.159.161] has quit [Client Quit]
10:40 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.209.102.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:40 -!- richardkiss [~richardki@108-94-29-170.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:43 -!- elevation [~ceptde@73.4.229.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:45 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.155.68] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:46 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:50 -!- elevation [~ceptde@73.4.229.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:50 -!- richardkiss [~richardki@108-94-29-170.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: richardkiss]
10:50 -!- elevation is now known as Guest638
10:55 -!- elevatio1 [~ceptde@73.4.229.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:58 -!- Guest638 [~ceptde@73.4.229.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
10:58 -!- torsthaldo [~torsthald@unaffiliated/torsthaldo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:07 < kanzure> wrong
11:08 < kanzure> for anyone to think that's interesting they would have to be unaware of literally all of the prior work
11:14 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtagg_@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:14 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:16 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:17 < mappum> kanzure: what prior work are you thinking of, permacoin?
11:18 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:19 < kanzure> the page seems to be down at the moment, but this was the "store the hash of a dht in the blockchain" idea again, right?
11:20 < mappum> yes, and done in a counterparty-like way (fake transactions embedded in OP_RETURNs on bitcoin)
11:21 < fluffypony> eugh.
11:21 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@86.125.49.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:21 -!- hearn [~mike@185.25.95.132] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
11:23 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
11:26 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
11:27 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:27 < siraj_> right
11:28 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:28 < siraj_> here's a better link https://github.com/openname/blockstore
11:28 < instagibbs> don't know the prior work, but I'm also unsure of what it's supposed to solve? Checkins of DHTs?
11:29 < siraj_> decentralized authorization of data ownership
11:29 < siraj_> and access
11:30 < instagibbs> who publishes the DHT? Onename?
11:30 < instagibbs> like, sticking it in a block
11:30 < siraj_> they say each node of their client is a DHT node (its built in)
11:31 < siraj_> im not sure how they are incentivizing them. no tit-for-tat mechanism like bittorrent or monetary incentive like filecoin
11:31 < mappum> that part doesn't seem like it needs to be coupled to the blockchain, they should really be separate systems
11:31 < instagibbs> but the anchor being published on the blockchain must be put there by someone... perhaps this is off topic
11:31 -!- ortutay [~marcell@216.239.45.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:35 -!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:36 -!- adam3us1 [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:36 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:36 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:36 < maaku> there is absolutely no reason to include any information in the block chain for this purpose. NONE.
11:37 < instagibbs> At this point in my bitcoin 'career', if a project doesn't explicitly numerate why it needs the blockchain up front, my eyes glaze over
11:37 < siraj_> Is there another way to authorize ownership of your data in a decentralized way in a DHT?
11:38 < mappum> they should just be using namecoin, the extra features they try to put in are unrelated
11:39 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-255.wireless.telus.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:40 < siraj_> namecoin lets you authenticate but it doesn't let you authorize yourself to access your data. for example, in a decentralized social network namecoin would let you verify you are unique, but if the network is using a DHT to store data, all data would be global read write unless there was a way to authorize ownership. the blockchain provides decentralized consensus on data ownership because only you own your private key. i've yet to see
11:40 < siraj_> something else that does that as securely.
11:40 < kanzure> "authorize ownership" is meaningless nonsense
11:41 < gmaxwell> that does what?
11:41 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.155.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:42 < kanzure> i thought everyone and their mom has done "publishing a hash in a transaction" by now? i'm a little confused why i would have to invoke permacoin or whatever.
11:43 < GAit> TEE (Trusted Execution Environment) with directIO on screen on Android, demo by Ledger on GreenBits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugd_irhBnto
11:44 < instagibbs> GAit: +1, excited to see these finally roll out
11:46 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.135.14] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:47 < GAit> instagibbs: same here, even with NFC it is a bit painful to use a hardware wallet with your mobile. With USB it is outright a mission.
11:49 -!- ortutay [~marcell@216.239.45.82] has quit [Quit: ortutay]
11:54 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.135.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:54 -!- zooko [~user@c-75-70-204-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:55 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.145.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:56 < siraj_> @kanzure assume i have a social network on a DHT where users don't have to self-host their data. a user publishes an image to the DHT and it returns a hash. i only want myself to be able to access this image. This is where i see the utility of something like blockstore. I'm not sure how else only i can have access to said image in the DHT.
11:57 -!- hightorque [~hightorqu@172.56.19.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:58 < mappum> siraj_: if you're letting other people store it, it's already considered public data. you could encrypt the image and let people store that, then only you can access the image
11:59 < siraj_> but if the apps source code is open source, anyone could easily decrypt it
11:59 < mappum> no, only you store the encryption keys
12:00 -!- hightorque [~hightorqu@172.56.19.21] has quit [Client Quit]
12:00 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
12:00 < gmaxwell> siraj_: I think you're confusing some basic concepts. Public key cryptography, which lets a third party encrypt a message so that only you can decrypt it, is widely used and existed long before Bitcoin.  It accomplishes the goal you're describing.
12:01 < siraj_> ok thx guys bbl crypto study time
12:01 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
12:02 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-255.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:03 -!- hightorque [~hightorqu@172.56.19.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:06 < stonecoldpat> good example of why i love bitcoin, it is a good excuse to introduce people to crypto (who may not necessarily have been introduced to it previously). or at least introduce people to the concept of public/private keys. (y)
12:12 -!- siraj_ [~siraj@106.221.145.175] has quit []
12:13 -!- licnep [uid4387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tflwihdqpjkxewum] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:19 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:22 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
12:23 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:27 -!- hightorque is now known as shea256
12:33 < Adlai> mappum: there would only be a single blockchain involved. by "in a blockchain against itself" i mean: "the utxos given and received live in the same blockchain; an additional protocol (coinswap) is used which lets the buyer obtain a utxo unlinkable to the one traded away by the merely-blockchain-observing public"
12:34 < Adlai> a crude way of saying this is "hey, atomic cross-chain swapping looks rather similar to CoinSwap, i wonder if we couldn't reuse code built around the former to facilitate the latter too"
12:36 -!- woah [~woah@216.10.144.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:36 -!- orik [~orik@75.149.169.53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:36 < mappum> Adlai: ah, i interpreted that incorrectly. yes, they are very similar and coinswap can even happen on separate chains, so you would be killing 2 birds with 1 stone. but i wouldn't feel confident implementing coinswap unless there was a good decentralized solution for order matching (otherwise the central service can log who swapped)
12:38 < amiller> stonecoldpat, it used to be that if you wanted to show someone crypto, all you could do is send signed encrypted email message
12:38 < amiller> but it's really not fun at all.... checking a signature is super boring all you can do is look at it and mumble to yourself "yes i trust this" "no i do not trust this"
12:38 < amiller> or you send a pointless encrypted message
12:38 < mappum> Adlai: someday though, thanks for bringing coinswap to my attention.
12:38 < gmaxwell> mappum: hm? you don't need order matching, you need one sided registration of interest then other things can be party to party.
12:39 < mappum> gmaxwell: you do when you're doing the swap for trading instead of just for anonymity
12:39 < gmaxwell> okay, that one does need more extensive matching.
12:40 -!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:41 < woah> mappum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSnYmMHp-o8
12:41 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@unaffiliated/niftyzero1] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:41 < woah> perhaps something like this could be adapted for order matching
12:42 < woah> one of my favorite things from ccc this year
12:43 < woah> https://events.ccc.de/congress/2014/Fahrplan/system/attachments/2535/original/dp5-31c3.pdf
12:44 -!- woah [~woah@216.10.144.10] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
12:44 < mappum> woah: interesting, i'll have to give that a closer look sometime. i'm staying away from trying to do decentralized order matching for now because there are a lot of factors at play (traders might want to attack other traders by e.g. sending them fake orders) so it would be hard to get right
12:46 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSnYmMHp-o8
12:46 < yoleaux> DP5: PIR for Privacy-preserving Presence - YouTube
12:48 < Adlai> isn't "one sided registration of interest" enough? the would-be Bobs of a blockchain just need some way to inform would-be Alices of their openness to perform swaps, which iiuc is just the pair (utxo for sale, private contact channel); decentralized order matching results from it being impossible to spend an already spent transaction, so an 'expired' Bob-side listing is detectable by being missing
12:48 < Adlai> from the utxo set
12:49  * Adlai needs to study mercury, and the PIR concept linked by woah
12:50 < Adlai> still speaking a little (lot) outside my depth, trying to make sure that there's a viable idea at the other end of this thought train
12:51 < mappum> Adlai: right, coinswap can work fine without centralized matching, i was thinking of using coinswaps in atomic-swap market trades where you do need centralized matching. but for now that's not the best since the order-matching service has records of who swapped with who
12:51 < mappum> that could be viable though if the order matching could be decentralized
12:51 < orperelman> Mappum - how about semi-decentralised?
12:52 < mappum> orperelman: how would that work?
12:53 < Adlai> a centralized service which knows the set of all would-be Bobs ("coinswap offers"?) and how often PIRs are performed ("alice inquiries"?), but doesn't help or interfere with what the recipiets of the information do with it
12:54 < mappum> Adlai: right, that works if you only care about doing the coinswap for anonymity
12:54 < Adlai> a superset of all potential coinswap participants in a blockchain can be determined by any passive observer, and i'm not convinced the operator of such a centralized server knows anything appreciably more than that set precisely (ie, not a superset)
12:55 < Adlai> well yes, that's the direction i'm taking this: the joinmarket team are working towards coinjoin markets, and coinswap is looking lonely over there in the corner
12:55 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:56 -!- woah [~woah@216.10.144.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:57 < Adlai> rudimentaly DoS-mitigation is achieved by breaking step 6 in half, so Alice always pays a network fee; Bob only broadcasts after seeing confirmations on TX0; think "proof-of-burn", but useful
12:58 < Adlai> "useful" since the fee is a) going to mining fees, not being destroyed b) enabling progression to the protocol stage if both participants are honest
12:59 < Adlai> to the *next* protocol stage
12:59  * Adlai is talking about https://gist.github.com/adlai/976d308efdb2e886ecb9#file-coinswap-txt-L16
12:59 -!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:00 < mappum> hasn't that been updated to have another party (Carol)?
13:00 < Adlai> no, it's been simplified to remove her.
13:00 < Adlai> https://gist.github.com/adlai/976d308efdb2e886ecb9/revisions
13:01 < mappum> oh, i see. so it still works as long as the coins aren't associated with each other
13:02 < gmaxwell> Really, you can look at coinswap as not a thing in and of itself, but a combination of two things:  An atomic swap,  and novation contract compression.  The NCC provides perfect privacy as a necessary side effect of the compression; if details of the contract were leaked, then you obviously didn't compress it enough. :)
13:02 < kanzure> wait a sec i'm on to you
13:03 < kanzure> :)
13:03 < gmaxwell> In theory the NCC should be a general construct that you could apply to _any_ enumerated-party contract to keep the contract out of the blockchain.
13:03 -!- Profreid [~Profreitt@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/profreid] has quit [Quit: Profreid]
13:05 -!- Guest75489 [~anthony@cpe-71-79-150-145.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:06 < Adlai> did you just make up the NCC concept? "my normal approach is useless here"... there are few enough resources online about "novation", let alone NCC
13:07 < Adlai> s/just//, i guess "is it hitherto unpublished, from google's perspective"
13:08 < mappum> i just made the same google searches :P
13:09  * Adlai talks less, reads more
13:10 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit []
13:10 < andytoshi> (reading scrollback) o.O did somebody suggest using a blockchain as an encryption scheme? i think that's a new one..
13:11 < Adlai> mappum: http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/techreports/2014/cacr2014-10.pdf is a little less content-free than woah's dp5-31c3.pdf (linked from within those slides)
13:11 < Adlai> .title
13:11 < yoleaux> Adlai: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
13:11 < kanzure> womp womp
13:11 < kanzure> although i would be interested in figuring out how to extract titles from pdfs. it seems to be one of those Difficult Problems.
13:11 < Adlai> http://tripbot.tripsit.me/flashy/orange/PATCHES%2520WELCOME
13:11 < kanzure> (formatting detection etc)
13:12 < Adlai> oh dear that's broken, oops >_>
13:12 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:13 < gmaxwell> andytoshi: not that uncommon to see people try to apply 'bitcoin/blockchains' where they really want asymetric crypto; no different than the old 'DHT' in place of 'distributed system'.
13:14 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:14 < kanzure> for april this year you guys should re-publish ralph merkle's paper and see if anyone notices that this "revolutionary cryptosystem" was previously known
13:15 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:17 < Adlai> make sure to cite recent work ("A generalization of the data integrity scheme used by certain cryptosystems, such as Bitcoin")
13:17 < gmaxwell> kanzure: by you guys you mean Nicolas van Saberhagen the second?
13:17 < andytoshi> hmm, i should highlight on that..
13:17 -!- TonyClifton [~TonyClift@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:19 < andytoshi> (everyone should)
13:20 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:20  * Adlai is not spartacus (yet)
13:22 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:22 < Adlai> although an interesting question for somebody at my stage in the crypto quest is "you wake up in late 2008, knowing what you do today; can you beat satoshi to the press?"
13:23 < gmaxwell> I've been a part of some communities that had collective troll accounts. E.g. some account where people share the credentials, as kind of an open secret.
13:24 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:24 -!- waxwing [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-qnanafbmjftzvogu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:27 < gmaxwell> kanzure: with respect to the earlier thing with the DHT network; whats _interesting_ there is that someone actually went and built it.
13:28 < gmaxwell> I haven't looked at the design, may well be crap and all... but I think it's very useful for something like that to exist; even if it just serves the purpose of shunting off misplaced things that think they want to shove data in the blockchain.
13:29 < kanzure> yeah, i suppose i was focusing more on the hash portion
13:29 < kanzure> i don't really have anything against DHT networks existing and doing things
13:29 < kanzure> whoops by "hash portion" i meant the one they place into the blockchain
13:30 < gmaxwell> If its well built and serves that purpose I'll gladly run a large node of it, at a loss, just to help discourage crap from going into the chain.  Indeed, the hash portion is, meh. At least the stuff we'd talked about before used UTXO for rate limiting, not transactions, so you didn't have to transact.  Alternatively, a sign to contract would at least make it more efficient to do and it could run
13:30 < gmaxwell> as a side effect of existing txn with no marginal cost.
13:31 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:31 < gmaxwell> the motivation for using utxo is so that no transactions are required per DHT operation.
13:39 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:44 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:46 -!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:49 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:50 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:54 < bramc> A few people from this channel may or may not be coming to meet me in a minute
13:54 < kanzure> if you stream it i will type it
13:54 -!- orik [~orik@75.149.169.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:57 < gmaxwell> bramc: I'm in the lobby in the south building. No one else is here yet. I'll let you know when other people show up.
13:57 < bramc> gmaxwell, Cool I'm upstairs on the 6th floor
13:58 < gmaxwell> K. I'll hang out here for people to show for a bit.
13:59 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@cpe-98-157-219-44.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:00 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@cpe-98-157-219-44.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
14:01 < sipa> which tower?
14:01 < sipa> bramc: we'll be there in a few minutes
14:02 < gmaxwell> sipa: south, as I mentioned specifically for your benefit. :)
14:02 < zooko> Huh, I wonder if bramc's new project is exploring side-chainy options.
14:02 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f1171b4.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:03 < kanzure> nah they are ging to brawl about proof-of-work
14:04 -!- orik [~orik@166.170.38.22] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:04 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
14:04 < kanzure> so much for that stream
14:06 < Adlai> zooko: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2015-02-14/?msg=31966591&page=1
14:07 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:08 < Adlai> as i understand DMMSs, they make most sense when both blockchains use similar (if not identical) PoW algorithms. changing one chain's algorithm would require implementing both verification algorithms in both chains
14:09 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@172.56.19.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:17 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-72-116-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jps]
14:20 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:22 < zooko> Adlai: thanks.
14:25 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:29 -!- AlienProject [~Alien_Pro@72.53.101.165] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:32 -!- woah [~woah@216.10.144.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:33 -!- coiner [~linker@113.190.61.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:39 -!- evanxbt [d1286407@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.40.100.7] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:40 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:44 -!- orik [~orik@166.170.38.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:45 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
14:50 -!- null_radix [Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hnhpvpfcleuxpsiw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:53 -!- orik [~orik@75.149.169.53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:58 -!- delll_ [~chatzilla@yh97.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:58 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
15:01 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:08 < andytoshi> Adlai: "DMMS" simply refers to the cryptographic property required of hash signatures..
15:08 < andytoshi> ...what you mean is, "when using a hash signature as a DMMS in one chain of work done on another", it makes most sense for both blockchains to use similar (or identical) PoW algorithms
15:09  * Adlai passes the thanks to andytoshi
15:09 < andytoshi> and yes, if you wanted to sidechain a scrypt chain with Bitcoin, say, you'd need an "adaptor" sidechain which understood both PoW
15:09 < nsh> hrm
15:09 < nsh> so you can bridge PoW like dominoes tiles?
15:09 < nsh> *PoW algorithms
15:09 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@cpe-98-157-219-44.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
15:09 < andytoshi> nsh: yeah, you'd be moving your coin from Bitcoin to the adaptor chain to the target chain
15:09 < nsh> interesting...
15:10 < andytoshi> and to move back, you'd undo in the same order
15:10 < nsh> what's the transaction overhead for a chain of atomic swaps of length two like that?
15:10 < andytoshi> well, for atomic swaps you'd not need any adaptor chains
15:10 < nsh> oh, hm
15:10 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@65.209.72.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:10 < nsh> i thought all chains were coupled by atomic swaps...
15:10 < andytoshi> because they don't use a DMMS, they use 2-of-2 sigs
15:11 < nsh> hmm
15:11 < Adlai> using atomic swaps, two 2of2 in each chain. using lock/unlock proofs... more than this, depending how large a DMMS is needed for each stage in each chain
15:11 < andytoshi> nsh: "atomic swap" refers to a coinswap-like protocol and requires a counterparty on the chain that you're moving to; the alternative is to actually move the coin by the sidechain peg, which doesn't require a counterparty but does require a DMMS
15:12 -!- webdeli [~projects@42.39.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12 < nsh> ah, right
15:12 < nsh> i was conflating atomic swaps with two-way pegs
15:12 < andytoshi> they are totally distinct; the peg would likely only be used by market makers who are moving a lot of coins, since they're slow and big
15:12  * nsh nods
15:12 < Adlai> "market takers" would accept swap offers from makers
15:13 < andytoshi> Adlai: sure, but both parties would likely be big players who are somehow making money off of the overhead, with the goal of having a supply of coins on each chain .... as long as there is such a supply, ordinary people would use coinswaps
15:14 < Adlai> "market taker" = ordinary people using coinswaps. i don't think we're in disagreement here, maybe just some confusion about terminology.
15:15 < andytoshi> oh :) yes
15:15 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@65.209.72.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
15:15 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:15 -!- zooko [~user@c-75-70-204-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
15:15 < Adlai> in this context, market = atomic swap market. i guess you could talk about there being a market for mining lock/unlock proofs, but that's another story
15:17 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:22 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)]
15:30 -!- oujh [~vfbtgn@188.27.93.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:30 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-44-216.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:31 < nsh> fgodel
15:31 -!- orik [~orik@75.149.169.53] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
15:31 -!- orik_ [~orik@75.149.169.53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:31 -!- oujh [~vfbtgn@188.27.93.24] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:33 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:33 -!- orik [~orik@166.170.40.223] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:36 -!- orik_ [~orik@75.149.169.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
15:37 -!- orik [~orik@166.170.40.223] has quit [Client Quit]
15:38 < rusty> nsh: nice find re:timestamping.  Thanks!
15:38 < nsh> np :)
15:38 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:44 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@65.209.72.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:45 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@65.209.72.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:49 -!- Dizzle_ [~Dizzle@cpe-72-182-36-12.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:50 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:51 -!- anthony [~anthony@cpe-71-79-150-145.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:51 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:51 -!- anthony is now known as Guest85694
15:54 -!- Dizzle_ [~Dizzle@cpe-72-182-36-12.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:58 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:59 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@65.209.72.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:59 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:05 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@65.209.72.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:09 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:11 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:21 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:26 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:27 < kanzure> are there as many bittorrent forks and variations as there are bitcoin derivatives?
16:27 < kanzure> protocol-level i mean
16:31 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:33 -!- orik [~orik@166.170.40.223] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:33 -!- orik [~orik@166.170.40.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:40 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:41 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@2604:2000:e920:d500:29f3:f083:1cc8:4a1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:41 < nsh> not even remotely...
16:41 < nsh> (because bittorrent is more magically associated with wealth from nowhere)
16:41 < nsh> *is not
16:44 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-44-216.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:45 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting]
16:47 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:49 -!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
16:52 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:56 -!- AlienProject [~Alien_Pro@72.53.101.165] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:56 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:57 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:00 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:09 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-72.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:31 -!- ortutay [~marcell@216.239.45.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:32 -!- ebfull [~ebfull@c-76-120-40-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:32 -!- linelevel [~mike@unaffiliated/linelevel] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
17:35 -!- webdeli [~projects@bit1642892.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:38 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:40 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:43 -!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
17:50 -!- shea256 [~hightorqu@2604:2000:e920:d500:29f3:f083:1cc8:4a1] has quit []
18:04 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:05 -!- evanxbt [d1286407@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.40.100.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
18:06 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE687f74122463-CM84948c2e0610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:06 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
18:08 -!- ortutay [~marcell@216.239.45.82] has quit [Quit: ortutay]
18:12 -!- SDCDev [~quassel@unaffiliated/sdcdev] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:15 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-72.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
18:17 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:20 -!- bosma_ [~bosma@S01067cb21bda6531.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:20 -!- bosma [~bosma@S01067cb21bda6531.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Disconnected by services]
18:20 -!- bosma_ is now known as bosma
18:26 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
18:26 -!- woah [~woah@208-90-214-199.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:28 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@CPE-69-23-213-3.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:30 -!- woah [~woah@208-90-214-199.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:31 -!- koshii [~0@node-1a9w.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:33 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-72.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:41 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:45 -!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@gtng-d9bf7143.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:49 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-229-125.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:51 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
18:51 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
18:52 < maaku> kanzure: maybe? theres probably more meaningful changes
18:53 < kanzure> hm.
18:53 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-229-125.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:12 -!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:13 -!- everettForth [~everett@c-98-248-181-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:13 < everettForth> has anyone looked at altcoins that have implemented zk-snarks?
19:14 < nsh> are there any?
19:15 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
19:18 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:18 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:19 < everettForth> nsh: I have seen at least one that claims to
19:20 -!- aburan28 [~ubuntu@static-108-45-93-72.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:20 < gmaxwell> I don't believe there is.
19:21 < amiller> everettForth, which?
19:21 < everettForth> gmaxwell: shadowcash claims to
19:21 < kanzure> .g shadowcash
19:21 < yoleaux> http://shadow.cash/
19:23 < nsh> claims 'traceable' ring signature with no trusted setup
19:23 < nsh> .g ext:pdf shadowcase-anon
19:23 < yoleaux> http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~siler/SilerRoeDurran2013.pdf
19:24 < nsh> http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf
19:24 < everettForth> nsh: I think this ring structure may be outdated
19:25 < everettForth> they have been making changes and left some old pieces in there
19:25 < gmaxwell> I see no evidence of anything zk-snark in it. (fetched the source)
19:25 < nsh> the, ehm, white paper is a bit dubious. a lot more effort was put into the marketing copy in the bitcointalk thread
19:26 < nsh> which is generally a bad sign
19:26 -!- jtimon [~quassel@2601:9:3640:103:4427:23d1:a4c4:b583] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:26 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:27 < instagibbs> 99% sure that paper was posted here before
19:27 < gmaxwell> there is some amusing cryptographic code in it thats quite concerning.
19:27 < gmaxwell> but nothing interesting.
19:28 -!- greenismypepper [~greenismy@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:1c2d:32ff:1d70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:30 < gmaxwell> They're also MIT licens violators (no shock)
19:30 < nsh> heh
19:31 < everettForth> ok, so no zk-snarks yet I guess, I must have read something on bitcointalk
19:31 < everettForth> gmaxwell: how are they violating the license?
19:31 < gmaxwell> Stripped out all attribution, which is the only thing the license requires they not do.
19:33 < everettForth> isn't this attribution: https://github.com/SDCDev/shadowcoin/blob/master/COPYING ?
19:33 -!- HaltingState [~HaltingSt@cpe-23-242-75-236.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:33 -!- HaltingState [~HaltingSt@cpe-23-242-75-236.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host]
19:33 -!- HaltingState [~HaltingSt@unaffiliated/haltingstate] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:34 < gmaxwell> everettForth: they stripped it out of the source files elsewhere (with a search and replace which falsely claims authorship even of files they didn't touch).  No on really cares, I just mentioned it in passing.
19:37 -!- earlz [~earlz@earlz.net] has quit [Quit: server rebooting after pacman -Syu... Please pray I have a safe reboot]
19:38 < gmaxwell> pretty sophicated BRS implementation in it.
19:39 < everettForth> what's BRS?
19:39 < gmaxwell> the bytecoin thing.
19:39 -!- adam3us [~Adium@88-105-6-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:40 < everettForth> I wonder how does shadowcash's stealth address work if it's not zk-snarks?
19:40 < gmaxwell> same way stealth addresses work in Bitcoin.
19:42 < everettForth> ah I see, thanks gmaxwell
19:42 -!- greenismypepper [~greenismy@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:1c2d:32ff:1d70] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
19:42 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:43 < everettForth> you guys are pretty smart here, this was so much better than trying to read bitcointalk
19:43 < sipa> lol
19:43 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:43 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:44 < instagibbs> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/20701/what-is-a-stealth-address for more info everettForth
19:44 < everettForth> thanks instagibbs I'm reading that now :)
19:44 < gmaxwell> Translation: we're too helpful, to the point that wasting our time is eaiser than a moment of research on your own? :)
19:45 < instagibbs> google is still in beta, pretty sure
19:46 < everettForth> Well, i tried to research it, but I got stuck, so I appreciate the moment of clarity from this crowd
19:46 < everettForth> there is a lot of noise even with google helping me
19:49 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@cpe-72-182-36-12.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:50 -!- coiner [~linker@113.190.61.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:53 -!- GreenIsMyPepper [~GreenIsMy@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:1c2d:32ff:1d70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:54 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:54 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@cpe-72-182-36-12.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20:00 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:00 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:04 -!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:14 -!- GreenIsMyPepper [~GreenIsMy@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:1c2d:32ff:1d70] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:14 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:19 -!- everettForth [~everett@c-98-248-181-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:25 < adam3us> like http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+stealth+address
20:26 -!- embicoin [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/embicoin] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]]
20:26 < adam3us> aka why are you asking, its the first hit on google search! with a fun slow moving cursor and simulated typing of the search term :)
20:26 < sipa> adam3us: one should never post a non-tinyurl'd lmgtfy link
20:27 < gmaxwell> I dunno, makes the most sense to me.
20:29 -!- GreenIsMyPepper [~GreenIsMy@altcoins.are-on-my.ignorelist.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:30 -!- null_radix [Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-mlmeguepfnzempcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:34 -!- jtimon [~quassel@2601:9:3640:103:4427:23d1:a4c4:b583] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:38 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:40 -!- jtimon [~quassel@2601:9:3640:103:4427:23d1:a4c4:b583] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:40 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:45 -!- ortutay [~marcell@c-98-248-47-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:45 -!- Guest85694 [~anthony@cpe-71-79-150-145.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:51 -!- dosk [~dosk@ip184-180-245-185.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: dosk]
20:57 -!- instagibbs [60ff5d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.255.93.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:57 < instagibbs> adam3us: people can't know my secret
20:57 < instagibbs> stop spoiling
21:05 -!- jtimon [~quassel@2601:9:3640:103:4427:23d1:a4c4:b583] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
21:09 -!- null_radix [Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-mlmeguepfnzempcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:11 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:12 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:32 -!- zwischenzug [~zwischenz@pool-108-51-197-41.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:35 -!- ortutay [~marcell@c-98-248-47-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ortutay]
21:41 -!- oujh [~vfbtgn@188.27.93.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:41 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:42 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:44 -!- oujh [~vfbtgn@188.27.93.24] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:51 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:00 < bramc> Hey everybody. I'm still digesting from the meeting today. Have some thoughts but want to give them a chance to stabilize a bit more before discussing.
22:30 -!- alawson [~alawson@87.121.52.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:32 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:33 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:33 -!- ortutay [~marcell@c-98-248-47-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:33 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:33 -!- null_radix [Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-osxsrexwlpogmxan] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:39 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:40 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:51 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:00 -!- shesek [~shesek@87.68.240.156.adsl.012.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
23:01 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:06 -!- hktud0 [wq@unaffiliated/fluffybunny] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:07 -!- zwischenzug [~zwischenz@pool-108-51-197-41.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:08 -!- hktud0 [ncidsk@unaffiliated/fluffybunny] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:08 -!- zwischenzug [~zwischenz@pool-108-51-197-41.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:13 -!- shesek [~shesek@IGLD-84-228-193-11.inter.net.il] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:13 -!- koeppelm_ [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:13 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@tmo-107-12.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:14 -!- koeppelmann [~koeppelma@dyn-160-39-29-101.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:20 < fluffypony> [06:26:49]  <sipa>	adam3us: one should never post a non-tinyurl'd lmgtfy link <- agreed, you've got to trick them into clicking the link, otherwise your trolling is incomplete
23:33 -!- irc88 [~irc88@204.28.117.162] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:37 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:41 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:42 -!- Logicwax [Logicwax@c-50-161-23-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rm -rf /]
23:49 < sipa> partial troll is worst troll
23:53 -!- Transisto [~Trans@modemcable026.188-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:54 -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-50-161-23-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:57 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:58 -!- Transisto [~Trans@modemcable026.188-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
--- Log closed Wed Feb 18 00:00:57 2015