--- Log opened Fri Feb 27 00:00:06 2015
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05:37 < hearn> good afternoon wizards
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09:21 < gmaxwell> How Bitcoin users treat Bitcoin developers, episode 37:  "when you let devs control anything beyond where to put the commas and braces in the code it is almost never successful by any rational metric"
09:21 < intsagibbs> we were discussing payment channel implementations a bit back, here's a hub-spoke model that I didn't see discussed: http://lightning.network/lightning-network.pdf
09:25 < fluffypony> off topic, but...http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/arts/television/leonard-nimoy-spock-of-star-trek-dies-at-83.html
09:26 < gmaxwell> oh thats sad. Indeed, OT but thanks.
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09:34 < justanotheruser> That's fine, he can just use 0.1 or even fork it to make the spacing prettier
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09:37 < fluffypony> lol gmaxwell - my favourite are the users that complain about something: "devs are useless, they haven't fixed X in 6 months!" and then when you prioritise it after much complaining you get the other lot going: "this is not important, devs are wasting their time on this when they should be doing Y"
09:38 < intsagibbs> gmaxwell: the CEO of Bitcoin wants to talk to you about your job performance
09:38 < fluffypony> and, of course, the loudest of them all haven't donated a cent or contributed a single line of anything
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09:39 < sipa> intsagibbs: didn't Bitcoin file for bankruptancy?
09:40 < nef0> No, I've heard Google is buying them
09:42 < fluffypony> nef0: after the mess they left in Japan I don't know if Google is still interested
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10:04 < gmaxwell> moa: ah, seems they renamed it from semaphor to lightning network,  http://lightning.network/lightning-network.pdf
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10:05 < gmaxwell> this is the slids for a fancy optimizable micropayment hub approach. (I'm not sure when the paper on it will be available)
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10:09 < intsagibbs> Says tonight on the webpage
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10:09 < zooko> Whoa you can buy "foo.network"? brb
10:11 < intsagibbs> social.network(!!!)
10:12 < intsagibbs> I'm assuming this hub/spoke has the same capital requirements as other approaches.
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10:31 < dgenr8> it's so very optimistic to set the scalability requirements at ALL_HUMAN_TRANSACTIONS.  as if being able to buy a lego kit meant instant global domination
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10:36 < intsagibbs> napkin-math is necessary for the debate about what Bitcoin could/should be
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10:40 < intsagibbs> the 7B person goal is just saying you could literally let everyone interact directly with the blockchain. Slides show that's still impossible of course.
10:40 < dgenr8> ah, well this lightning proposal is not about what bitcoin should be.  it's about creating some new complicated thing that involves bitcoin on the back end
10:41 < intsagibbs> interact in a meaningful way*
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13:35 < maaku> dgenr8: "bitcoin on the back end" basically describe the future of bitcoin
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13:46 < sipa> maaku: maybe :)
13:47 < sipa> (not saying that i disagree, but we don't know the future)
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13:53 < nsh> (O/T: 'Abstract—We present an effective implementation of the PRIME+PROBE side-channel attack against the last-level cache. We measure the capacity of the covert channel the attack creates and demonstrate a cross-core, cross-VM attack on multiple versions of GnuPG. Our technique achieves a high attack resolution without relying on weaknesses in the OS or hypervisor or on sharing memory between attacker and victim.'
13:53 < nsh> -- http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XIEoJCdSMngJ:www.nicta.com.au/pub%3Fpslides%3D8432+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=ubuntu )
13:53 < nsh> (update libgcrypt)
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17:47 < Eliel> dgenr8: that lightning proposal reminded me of ripple (the original routing idea, not so much any particular implementation) due to the way it suggests to move money.
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17:48 < Eliel> although, unlike ripple, it appears to require less trust in the people doing the routing.
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18:11 < nsh> Eliel, anything online about this?
18:12 < Eliel> nsh: you mean the original ripple idea?
18:12 < nsh> no, this lightning proposal you're talking about
18:12 < Eliel> http://lightning.network/lightning-network.pdf
18:13 < nsh> ty
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18:19 < gmaxwell> Eliel: no need to streach to try to find things to compare it to; it's a micropayment hub network; just improved.
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18:59 < dgenr8> the instant-ness in these cosigned coin ideas comes from trust in the cosigner, just like trusting Visa (or the govt, in the case of cash).  That, and having pre-paid the "instant" transaction.
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19:00 < Luke-Jr> dgenr8: the topic is not a mere cosigned coin idea
19:03 < Luke-Jr> dgenr8: specifically, the cosigner can't screw you over
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19:33 < Iriez> Causing quite a lot of drama Luke-Jr.
19:33 < Iriez> For the safety of children and all things holy, please stop.
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19:34 < kanzure> wrong channel
19:36 < Luke-Jr> (also, you have the wrong person)
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