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binaryFate [~binaryFat@2a02:2788:64:d7f:e564:94b6:7d8a:adb2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:17 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:20 < Anduck> about the k-value thing we talked about earlier. could it be less fragile if the k-value deriving included block height or something? a bit like gauth 09:20 -!- chris13243 [~chris@99.204.245.141] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:27 < sipa> using k = hash(msg + privkey) should be perfrctly safe, unless the hash function is (very) broken 09:27 < sipa> and is standardized in rfc 6979 09:29 -!- xenog [~xenog@c-50-161-2-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:30 < gmaxwell> sipa: you're missing context. 09:30 < sipa> ok 09:30 < sipa> ignore me, in that case 09:30 < gmaxwell> :) 09:32 < gmaxwell> Anduck: no that cannot work. No amount of non-secret inputs can reduce the brittleness. 09:33 < gmaxwell> Anduck: You are ignoring the other point that I made; that having a one show signature does not actually do much useful; which doesn't go away even if the brittleness concerns were solved. 09:33 < gmaxwell> sipa: Anduck made some suggestion which basically reduces to "why not use a single show signature to deal with double spending" 09:35 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ezshpcqxgsdbsjrw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 < Anduck> can you elaborate this a little? gmaxwell| In terms of discouraging double spending the attacker will just arrange things so that the loss of the private key is no big deal. (e.g. by ripping off lots of people at once). 09:41 < Anduck> wouldn't the miner then be able to spend the coins anyway so trying double spending will always lose the coins to miner of the next block 09:45 < gmaxwell> Anduck: no, because the miner themselves can be the attacker, and because the second spend need not be widely distributed. The reciever is still totally screwed, so long as the attacker still got their good they're at least just as well off as if they hadn't double spent. Also, they can use the same coins to concurrently double spend against many parties. 09:46 < gmaxwell> E.g. they take 1 BTC, spend it 15 times, miner takes the coins, they get 4 BTC worth of goods from the three successful double spends. 09:47 < Anduck> ok. thanks 09:47 < gmaxwell> So the improvement is mitigated by (1) concurrent theft, (2) miner theft, (3) if the success rate is high, it still doesn't hurt to try and just hope that the winning miner didn't hera both. So this bounds the benefits pretty substantially; and then on the downsides you have the extreme fragility where you can't reissue a stuck spend, or you're screwed if someone accidentally sends twice to the 09:47 < gmaxwell> same address. :) 09:50 -!- waxwing [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-xaudazixxzvsommp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:51 -!- belcher [~belcher-s@5ec39787.skybroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:51 -!- belcher [~belcher-s@5ec39787.skybroadband.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:51 -!- belcher [~belcher-s@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:01 -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:01 -!- jeremyrubin [~chatzilla@209.213.222.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:02 -!- benjyz1 [~benjyz1@p5B282C7A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:07 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:12 -!- Profreid [~Profreitt@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/profreid] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b834:a5f5:93c9:dbe] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:18 -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:22 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:25 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:26 -!- hearn [~mike@84-75-198-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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connection] 14:30 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- shesek [~shesek@77.127.158.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.37.89.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.37.89.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:38 -!- koshii [~0@69.63.206.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39 -!- execut3 [~shesek@77.127.158.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:40 -!- execut3 [~shesek@77.127.158.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40 -!- execut3 [~shesek@77.127.158.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:41 -!- shesek [~shesek@77.127.158.156] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:41 -!- execut3 is now known as shesek 14:44 -!- DrGrid [b2c5e3bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.178.197.227.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:47 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50 -!- Crowley2k [~Crowley2k@93.113.62.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:50 -!- bsm117532 [~bsm117532@static-108-21-236-13.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:51 -!- ortutay [~marcell@c-98-248-47-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ortutay] 14:51 -!- StephenM347 [~stephenm3@cpe-76-179-63-243.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:51 -!- chris13243 [~chris@107.25.57.104] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:52 < fluffypony> gribble: seen op_mul ? 14:52 < fluffypony> that's not it 14:52 < fluffypony> !seen op_mul 14:52 < gribble> op_mul was last seen in #bitcoin-wizards 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 54 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: you can't beat the one that's in obfsucated javascript though. 14:52 < fluffypony> O.o 14:56 -!- xenog [~xenog@sfspeed.wiline.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:58 -!- xenog [~xenog@70-35-48-189.static.wiline.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:59 -!- Profreid [~Profreitt@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/profreid] has quit [Quit: Profreid] 14:59 -!- luke-jr_ is now known as Luke-Jr 15:00 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@cpe-66-68-54-206.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:02 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-fogranlloxekvfyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:02 -!- xenog [~xenog@70-35-48-189.static.wiline.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has quit [Quit: Quit] 15:15 < maaku> op_mul has been disabled 15:16 -!- hashtagg_ [~hashtag@87.97.56.71.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:16 -!- chris13243 [~chris@107.25.57.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17 -!- zwischenzug [~zwischenz@pool-173-73-105-152.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:19 < fluffypony> maaku: lol 15:19 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@87.97.35.130.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:20 -!- xenog [~xenog@70-35-48-189.static.wiline.com] has joined 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