--- Log opened Sun May 03 00:00:47 2015 00:26 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:37 -!- p15 [~p15@111.194.195.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:38 -!- p15 [~p15@111.194.195.129] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:52 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.151.61.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:58 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:03 -!- sparetire [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has quit [Quit: sparetire] 01:04 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@adsl-ull-72-66.42-151.net24.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14 -!- p15 [~p15@111.194.195.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:17 -!- p15 [~p15@111.194.195.129] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:28 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:28 -!- jeremyrubin [~jeremyrub@2601:6:8000:4a8:db3:e746:4cf4:63b3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30 -!- p15 [~p15@111.194.195.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:31 -!- p15 [~p15@111.194.195.129] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:46 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:51 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:00 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:01 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:09 -!- fanquake1 [~fanquake@106-68-180-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:12 -!- fanquake [~fanquake@unaffiliated/fanquake] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20 -!- jeremyrubin [~jeremyrub@2601:6:8000:4a8:816b:1dcd:4ef9:3ec] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:36 -!- mm_0 is now known as mm_1 02:41 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:50 -!- waxwing [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-befmflayydtqzeeh] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:51 -!- waxwing [waxwing@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-awduynimbyhaaoef] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:55 -!- gielbier [~giel@f142219.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:58 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:02 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:03 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:10 -!- rustyn_ is now known as rustyn 03:31 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@46-235-51.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:35 -!- tlt [~tlt@unaffiliated/teololtoy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:36 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@lw.serv162.quikefall.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:39 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Quit: b_lumenkraft] 03:48 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:00 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@lw.serv162.quikefall.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14 -!- jeremyrubin [~jeremyrub@2601:6:8000:4a8:816b:1dcd:4ef9:3ec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16 -!- sadoshi [~Sadoshi@31.220.4.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17 -!- sadoshi [~Sadoshi@31.220.4.123] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:50 < nsh> amiller, how does this transformation add security to the snark by encrypting secrets against a public key for which the corresponding private key is destroyed during trusted setup? 04:59 -!- antgreen` [~user@2605:1300:63e2:5e3b:ea2a:eaff:fe28:7bd4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:00 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE687f74122463-CM84948c2e0610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:06 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-69-23-213-3.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:09 -!- hashtagg [~hashtagg_@cpe-69-23-213-3.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:17 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 < Eliel> hmmh... the setup phase sounds like it might benefit from the multiparty signature algorithm that allows different parties to produce a signature without revealing their private keys to each other. 05:47 -!- ttttemp [~ttttemp@pc-10367.ethz.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:54 -!- melvster1 [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:00 < nsh> is there any good particular system / context in which to learn about conflict-free replicated data types? 06:07 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- antgreen` [~user@2605:1300:63e2:5e3b:ea2a:eaff:fe28:7bd4] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:21 < nsh> a blockchain (sidechain) can be used to bootstrap a distributed system of authenticated conflict-free replicated data types, as coin independent-spendabilitiy and fungibility gives commutativity to operations bound to unspent transaction outputs, and idempotence is assured by double-spend resistance 06:23 < nsh> so mining must effect a semilattice join on the monotonically-increasing global blockchain partial-order state of transactions 06:24 -!- jeremyrubin [~jeremyrub@c-76-118-176-78.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:26 -!- gielbier [~giel@f142219.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:30 -!- fanquake1 [~fanquake@106-68-180-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:31 < nsh> actually, it would seem bitcoin exists as a continuous operation-based CRDT for SPV-nodes and above, scaffolded by a periodic [blocktime] state-based CRDT replicated by full nodes and above and updated by miners semilatice-joining a view of the gossip network (operation-based CRDT) at a poisson period in statistical proportion to their hashpower contribution 06:31 < nsh> where the hashpower contribution itself maintains the partial-ordering of the blockchain state 06:32 < nsh> sorry, maintains the monotonicity, and thus partial-ordering of the blockchain state 06:33 < nsh> (i guess strictly it's monotonically increasing because the merkel tree depth increases, which is not directly related to hashing difficulty) 06:33 -!- antanst [~Adium@adsl-139.37.6.220.tellas.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:33 < nsh> *merkle 06:36 < nsh> it would be interesting to compare the blockchain disk representation to the lower-bounds for state-based CRDT complexity 06:42 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@net-2-38-211-181.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:43 < Adlai> is bitcoin's blockchain a merkle tree, or just a list? 06:43 -!- delitzer [~delitzer@c-66-30-9-144.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:44 * Adlai isn't sure in which situations you'd only consider the longest chain, as opposed to all computed blocks, losing forks included 06:45 -!- erasmosp_ [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:46 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@net-2-38-211-181.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:46 -!- Relos [~Relos@unaffiliated/relos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:47 < nsh> it's the 'longest' chain only 06:47 < nsh> but long is defined in terms of sum of work 06:48 < nsh> a chain with fewer blocks but at higher total difficulty is thus longer than a chain of more blocks at lower difficulty 06:54 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:55 < Adlai> anybody can suggest updates to the CRDT, but *somebody* must pay a computational cost (ie, the PoW) to generate a valid update message; the computational cost is compensated with the freedom to adjust the database in your favor, within a limit that you believe other nodes will find tolerable 06:58 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:59 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:00 -!- Relos [~Relos@unaffiliated/relos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:00 * nsh nods 07:04 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@87.97.2.13.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:04 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:05 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:07 -!- delitzer [~delitzer@c-66-30-9-144.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: delitzer] 07:18 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@ool-4a5987f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:23 -!- ir2ivps5 [~ir2ivps5@158.85.162.249-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:23 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-69-23-213-3.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 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ZZZzzz…] 12:10 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:11 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:14 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cwxmtqccorddxccf] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:42 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:47 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54 -!- jhogan42 [~jhogan42@c-67-169-168-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:56 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtagg_@cpe-69-23-213-3.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:57 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:59 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-69-23-213-3.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:02 -!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:04 -!- delitzer [~delitzer@c-66-30-9-144.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- antanst [~Adium@adsl-139.37.6.220.tellas.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@87.97.2.13.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:18 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18 -!- hashtagg_ [~hashtag@87.97.2.13.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:19 -!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:20 -!- melvster1 [~melvster@194.206.50.40] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:32 -!- wyager [~wyager@nat-128-62-69-161.public.utexas.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:42 < Eliel> Adlai: the blockchain is a list of merkle trees. 13:42 < Eliel> every block has one 13:42 < Adlai> *merkle list of merkle trees 13:43 < Eliel> no, just a linked list of merkle trees. 13:43 < Adlai> it's not a regular linked list, it uses partial preimage collision hashpointers 13:45 -!- wyager [~wyager@nat-128-62-69-161.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: wyager] 14:07 < luny> would there be any use for an alt coin that would reward people for running full bitcoin nodes by paying them in that alt coin? i.e. "help bitcoin by running full nodes, and get paid in alt coin" 14:07 < frankenmint> why must it be an alt-coin to pay them 14:07 < frankenmint> ? 14:08 < luny> dunno, who would reward the bitcoin nodes in bitcoin? 14:08 < sipa> there is no reason to pay people to run a bitcoin node 14:09 < sipa> people should *use* a node 14:09 < Adlai> luny: some people have already tried, and realized that "reward bitcoin nodes in bitcoin" is vulnerable to sybil attack in a way that "obtain bitcoin coinsensus" isn't 14:09 < sipa> preferably a full node they control themselves 14:10 < sipa> well, full nodes help the network a bit... lightweight clients and bootstrapping other nodes 14:10 < luny> Adlai, do you mean that people would pretend running a node when in fact they aren't, and hence getting more rewards than they deserve? 14:10 < frankenmint> paying for it to run simply for it to run isn't a proper solution 14:10 < sipa> but for the security of the system, what matters is how many people independently *use* a node 14:10 < sipa> whether that is 1 or 1000 is irrelevant 14:12 < Adlai> luny: I can't dig up the link at the moment, and maybe better that it's so, but somebody published a bitnodes fraud script shortly after the program was announced 14:12 < sipa> luny: using a node is a reward on itself, namely you get the security of verifying that nodoby in the network is cheating, without needing to trust anyone for it 14:13 < luny> yes, good points.. thanks a lot 14:14 < Adlai> luny: for an example of a similar (yet differently motivated) attack on the network, google chainalysis 14:19 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:27 -!- NkWsy [~nkwsy@c-67-175-120-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28 -!- NkWsy [~nkwsy@c-67-175-120-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:29 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:33 -!- NkWsy [~nkwsy@c-67-175-120-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:34 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:35 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:35 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:38 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:38 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:41 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:43 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Quit: b_lumenkraft] 14:45 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:47 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55 -!- NkWsy [~nkwsy@c-67-175-120-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:00 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-21-68-222.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:13 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:15 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:16 -!- mm_1 is now known as mm_0 15:20 -!- NkWsy [~nkwsy@c-67-175-120-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:23 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23 -!- orperelman [~orperelma@bzq-79-182-122-50.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:24 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:28 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@195.175.52.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:30 -!- jhogan42 [~jhogan42@c-67-169-168-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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