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14:00 < kanzure> it would be helpful if there was a way to make it necessary for an adversary to use proof-of-work to spend an entire cold wallet
14:00 < kanzure> where small value transactions require exponentially smaller PoWs or something
14:01 < kanzure> also, you could have a difficulty adjustment schedule where you periodically spend your own funds to a higher-PoW-requirement script
14:02 < kanzure> this may encourage adversaries to spend the lower amount before they come up with a valid PoW for spending the entire amount
14:02 < kanzure> this prolly shoots yourself in the foot too much though.. hm.
14:10 < Taek> presumably an adversary is going to have access to more PoW than you are, simply because their specialty is stealing PoW funds.
14:12 < Taek> I wonder if it would be useful to have a delayed spend?
14:12 < Taek> Such that you make an 'intent to spend' on block X
14:12 < Taek> with a first set of keys
14:12 < Adlai> CLTV?
14:13 < Taek> and then the actual spend needs a different set of keys and the signature needs to include the hash of block X+n
14:15 < kanzure> hm, i dunno if i need the intent-to-spend in the blockchain itself?
14:16 < Taek> it guarantees you a warning that the keys have been compromised
14:17 < kanzure> perhaps an nlocktime covenant requirement :p
14:17 < kanzure> anyway what i was actually thinking about is how screwed ai or brain emulations are going to be, considering how easy it is to extract private keys from hardware and software compared to human brain matter
14:17 < kanzure> (they will probably have to use humans in some weirdo multisig scheme to hold part of their secrets)
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14:19 < Taek> if someone is already messing with an ai's code/memory, they basically own the ai anyway
14:19 < kanzure> well, yes, especially if cryptographic secrets are in there
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17:01 < hulkhogan_> wee, -wizards logs are back up, thx andytoshi!
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17:04 < andytoshi> hulkhogan_: fyi my logs are pretty patchy and hard to search .. the botbot.me ones are much more robust. (if that's what you mean, thx, but i have nothing to do with them..)
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17:04 < hulkhogan_> well, sadly the botbot logs are only up until a year or so; bitcoinstats has -dev logs from '11 or so, but thats just for -dev only
17:05 < hulkhogan_> (unless i've missed where botbot.me keeps their archived stuff)
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17:07 < andytoshi> yeah, we didn't have botbot until a year or so. if my archives are ever down feel free to let me know at apoelstra@wpsoftware.net
17:08 < frankenmint> is andytoshi real or a bot?
17:08 < frankenmint> sorry I have to ask
17:08 < hulkhogan_> awesome yes, i will definitely shoot you a ping if they do :)
17:10 < andytoshi> frankenmint: bots can be real
17:10 < frankenmint> sorry, does andytoshi have sentience?
17:10 < frankenmint> seems to :)
17:11 < andytoshi> ;)
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17:11 < andytoshi> (and yes, i'm a real person. you can google the name in my /whois to get way too much information on me if you like)
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17:13 < kanzure> real is just a matter of perspective
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19:41 < nsh> .wik Hyperreality
19:41 < yoleaux> "In semiotics and postmodernism, hyperreality is an inability of consciousness to distinguish reality from a simulation of reality, especially in technologically advanced postmodern societies." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality
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19:43 < nsh> i was about to idly muse "If only we had more cryptographers who were semioticians" and while i was still wondering what on earth that would even mean, i saw this sentence in the WP article: "Some famous theorists of hyperreality/hyperrealism include Jean Baudrillard, Albert Borgmann, Daniel J. Boorstin, Neil Postman, and Umberto Eco."
19:43 < nsh> (NB: d.j.boorstin)
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23:55 < ThomasV> gmaxwell: your opinion on https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/507 ?
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23:58 < gmaxwell> ThomasV: that complaint is somewhat misunderstanding /dev/urandom (and CSPRNGs) in general. There isn't such a thing as "low on entropy" for such constructs, so long as its ever had sufficent entropy gathered (e.g. 128+ bits) the output will forever be unpredictable-- barring an improbable brake of the interior cryptographic function (and in the case of that you're likely screwed regardless).  Wh
23:58 < gmaxwell> at actually _is_ an interesting concern is when the rng has never been initilized at all, linux has a newish syscall that has flags for precisely that case.
23:59 < gmaxwell> most of the code out there for "move the mouse around" and such is really horrifying. (e.g. some bitcoin key generator thing simply polled the mouse position a couple times in a tight loop and then combined that with the time.....)
--- Log closed Mon May 25 00:00:21 2015