--- Log opened Wed May 27 00:00:23 2015
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01:39 < nsh> gmaxwell, zooko``, daira1: passed on your interest in CREMA to Jacob Torrey, perhaps he'll come to discuss it here; else there is [an underpopoulated] #langsec
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08:38 < StephenM347> If a transaction spends from two outputs with same P2PKH address, then will the SignatureHash (SIGHASH) when signing each of the inputs individually be the same?
08:38 < StephenM347> I assume not
08:38 < StephenM347> Asking because someone found this interesting transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/9ec4bc49e828d924af1d1029cacf709431abbde46d59554b62bc270e3b29c4b1
08:39 < StephenM347> It has signatures with the same R values
08:40 < StephenM347> Wondering if it has anything to do with RFC 6979 (deterministic signatures), or if the signer was using bad software that used the same k value in signing
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08:46 < wumpus> deterministic signing will indeed generate the same signature twice for the same input data and key. But if it concerns different inputs, different data should be being signed.
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09:00 < StephenM347> wumpus: makes sense, that transaction must have signed using the same k value
09:00 < StephenM347> to get the same R
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11:35 < maaku> StephenM347: the input data would not be the same
11:36 < maaku> *the message being signed
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11:37 < StephenM347> maaku: Thanks, that's what I though
11:37 < StephenM347> thought
11:37 < maaku> StephenM347: specifically the outpoint of the inputs would be different
11:37 < maaku> different txid:n
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12:12 < akrmn> As far as I understand, the lightning network is a way of enforcing bitcoin contracts where each transaction in the contract can happen instantaneously. Now, how flexible are these contracts? Can the contract be to put the bitcoin on a sidechain and bring it back when some condition is met?
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12:32 < ajweiss> does anyone in here know of any fully open source (no binary drivers) mobile phones that are available in the us?
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12:40 < gmaxwell> ajweiss: I think no such beast exists; even the FirefoxOS stuff repackages binary drivers from android because thats the only way to get hardware compatiblity at the moment.
12:40 < gmaxwell> (it wasn't something that could just be fixed until Mozilla has more leverage with hardware makers)
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12:42  * helo rehashes baseband discussion
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12:46 < ajweiss> is that still true even if you say "forget the baseband"?
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12:47 < akrmn1> I would like to buy a tablet that has the same size and ear speaker as a phone, and just use VoIP. I wonder if there's any good options now.
12:48 < ajweiss> well i'd just like a phone sized device with a working camera and display that is foss.  it would make an excellent platform for a secure wallet.
12:49 < akrmn1> ya true
12:49 < ajweiss> all the android devices have silly binary blobs.  although there are foss drivers for the display for some..
12:49 < ajweiss> but really what you need is the camera
12:50 < ajweiss> or... even the audio
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13:48 < ggreer> did you guys see the papers about building time-lock encryption using the blockchain + witness encryption?
13:48 < ggreer> http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/482
13:49 < ggreer> http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/478
13:54 < zooko> ggreer: https://twitter.com/socrates1024/status/603027090942767104
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13:56 < gmaxwell> It's come up in here before... but trusted setup makes it much less interesting!
13:56 < gmaxwell> (well the papers haven't but that application of witness encryption has)
13:57 < maaku> i got very excited until i saw the trusted setup :(
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13:59 < gmaxwell> maaku: andytoshi has an informal general argument posted someplace that seems pretty convincing that any kind of obfscuation will need trusted setup.
14:01 < gmaxwell> Doesn't make it useless, but the gap over e.g. N of M IBM cryptocards that remote attest to their config and release keys on time; is smaller but substantial: in particular even with trusted _setup_ it removes an availablity attack.
14:03 < maaku> right
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14:03 < maaku> but it's not the holy grail of awesomeness it looked like at first ;)
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14:04 < gmaxwell> At a protocol level doing a timelock with the bitcoin blockchain is at best non-interactive-SPV secure, with no fraud proof.
14:05 < gmaxwell> so that would be the other limit.
14:06 < Luke-Jr> is a fraud proof needed for this?
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14:10 < gmaxwell> It's just a limitation. There is SPV security (trusts the longest chain that you can go out and fined, which is the longest one given a non-parititioning assumption), and non-interactive-SPV-with-fraud-proofs (trusts a sufficiently long chain you've been given, but have an oppturnity to learn about a longer one before its too late (which is the same as the longest given an even stronger non-censo
14:10 < gmaxwell> rship/non-partitioning assumption), vs trust any sufficiently long chain you've been given, regardless of if its the longest or not.   If this matters depends on if you're trying to just 'merge-mine' a computational timelock or if you're counting on bitcoin's adaptive difficulty control to make a very long term timelock viable.
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14:10 < gmaxwell> In the latter case, the fact that someone could feed the blackbox a fork is a significant limitation.
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20:01 < robogoat> Anybody aware of a requester-pays s3 bucket containing the blockchain data files?
20:03 < robogoat> Or just publically accessible?
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