--- Log opened Fri Aug 07 00:00:06 2015
--- Day changed Fri Aug 07 2015
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03:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Tiraspol, epscy, guruvan, ryan-c, heath, agorist000, jtimon, SDCDev, livegnik, sdaftuar,  (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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03:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: heath, CoinMuncher, jtimon, SDCDev, Tiraspol, sdaftuar, @wumpus, livegnik, dansmith_btc, davout (+8 more)
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12:24 < Taek> psztorc: I think I found a problem related to Truthcoin
12:24 < Taek> questions can be varying degrees of vague or 'invalid'
12:26 < Taek> even if the standard practice is to avoid vague questions
12:26 < Taek> an attacker could theoretically create questions that are clear enough that most/many/some people would consider them legitimate
12:26 < Taek> but vague enough taht some/many/most would consider them too vague
12:27 < Taek> "Donald trum will become the 40th right-handed president"
12:28 < Taek> as an example question that might be invalid
12:28 < Taek> it's pretty easy to play around with the validity of that question, an attack can try multiple things until they learn the sweet spot where people start dividing over whether the question is valid or not
12:29 < Taek> sorry about all the typos
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12:41 < tromp_> replace right-handed by faithful for increased vagueness:)
12:45 < andytoshi> Taek: my understanding is that the damage caused by confusing questions would be localized to people who had put money on that question
12:46 < andytoshi> so if you don't want to lose money, you should simply avoid nonsensical votes
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13:08 < Taek> andytoshi: I'm not 100% clear on how truthcoin works, but I think that the lie-detector part starts to break down if voters vote inconsistently across too many questions
13:09 < Taek> an attack would be to create 100s or 1000s of questions designed to provoke inconsistent answers
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13:28 < go1111111> Taek: wouldn't the voters themselves also be suffering from voting on borderline invalid questions? they'd risk being labeled as less honest overall. you dont have to vote on a question you don't want to vote on, right?
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13:47 < Taek> go1111111: psztorc would have to answer, but if voters are allowed to choose to abstain from questions, that's a completely separate attack vector
13:47 < Taek> An attacker can make questions that they know most voters will refuse to vote on, but perhaps a few will
13:48 < Taek> Then performing a 51% attack (or whatever threshold) on that particular question is a lot easier
13:48 < Taek> and even if you can't profit very much (because it's an unpopular market or whatever), you can steal reputation from the voters who joined the question
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14:19 < go1111111> yeah, curious to hear Paul's reply. that particular type of failure doesn't seem that bad to me bc as you say, profit opportunities are low, and just a small # of people are slightly negatively affected. moreover if these people were smarter they could have avoided harm
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15:43 < gmaxwell> tromp_: Any thoughts about how the intel/micro "3d xpoint" stuff may your proof of work scheme?  (I've heard some conflicting claims about its capabilities, it might be too early to say...)
15:43 < gmaxwell> er. micron*
15:44 < nsh> accidentally a verb, too?
15:44 < nsh> stuff may [break?] your proof or work scheme?
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15:46 < gmaxwell> impact.
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15:48 < andytoshi> Taek: i don't get what the attack is here .. if you make shitty questions where the vote fails, what harm have you done? people just won't participate because the outcome is basically a gamble
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16:23 < pigeons> lol "Ethereum deposits are delayed 24 hrs from 2015-08-07 03:50 UTC per dev request. The developers may rollback the chain up to 24 hours in case of an issue. As a result, the developers asked all exchanges to wait 5760 confirms (24 hours) to credit ETH deposits in case the chain is rolled back."
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16:23  * nsh blinks
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16:37 < phantomcircuit> pigeons, that is beautiful
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16:46 < gmaxwell> pigeons: well; it just makes it unattractive for anyone to bother revealing vulnerabilities or attacking, since any attacks will just be undone, nothing to see here.
16:46 < fluffypony> yeah
16:47 < fluffypony> social contract is now as worthless as Vericoin's
16:47 < fluffypony> (the crowd that rolled back their PoS blockchain after the Mintpal heist)
16:48 < gmaxwell> did they actually do that, or did the theif return the funds after the threat of it? (I thought there was on where the theif returned most of the funds to prevent it)
16:50 < pigeons> i'm not going to try too hard to find a reliable source but https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/vericoin-developer-speaks-ccn-mintpal-hardfork/
16:50 < dEBRUYNE> gmaxwell: I think you are talking about NXT and the BTER heist
16:51 < gmaxwell> dEBRUYNE: thanks.
16:51 < fluffypony> https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/vericoin-developer-believe-nxt-chain-rolled-back/
16:51 < fluffypony> confirmed in that article
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16:52 < fluffypony> "It was a very tough decision for us, and we ultimately decided to act quickly and rollback due to the insecurity presented with one person owning such a large quantity of coin."
16:52 < fluffypony> lol PoS
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17:23 < jcorgan> pigeons: what was that from?
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17:30 < pigeons> poloniex.com
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17:49 < pigeons> theres a bunch of drama because apparently jesse powell's exchange ignored the request and he is telling people on reddit "this is not financial advice but the ETH price is way too low dont sell now"
17:49 < pigeons> anyway
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17:54 < phantomcircuit> pigeons, that is financial advise
17:55  * phantomcircuit looks for a dictionary to mail jesse
17:55 < azariah> that's a bit like when people say "I don't want to offend you but..." right before they offend you :P
17:57 < midnightmagic> lol
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18:18 < gmaxwell> https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2015/08/06/firefox-exploit-found-in-the-wild/ < sounds like a state-attacker shopping list.
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18:29 < ryan-c``> I appear to have shamed brainwallet.org into shutting down.
18:30 < belcher> how ?
18:30 < belcher> today brainwallet.org, tomorrow bc.i ?
18:31 < ryan-c``> I gave a talk about breaking brainwallets at defcon about four hours ago.
18:31 < belcher> oh cool
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18:32 < kanzure> bruteforce?
18:32 < kanzure> or some other technique
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18:35 < ryan-c``> kanzure: password/passphrase cracking
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18:39 < gmaxwell> kanzure: the word bruteforce really should be struck from our lexicon, especially when it comes to password cracking.
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18:40 < gmaxwell> when people say bruteforce, people hear charset^length operations.  Modern cracking, even outside of dictionaries uses powerful statistical techniques to produce text users likely would have chosen.
18:41 < ryan-c``> gmaxwell: exactly
18:42 < ryan-c``> people have gotten *really* good at smarter guessing
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18:59 < kanzure> gmaxwell: i'm suspicious that sort of technique was enough to convince brainwallets.org person this time when it has never convinced him in the past. that's why i asked.
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19:16 < tromp_> gmaxwell: no idea about 3d xpoint yet. depends on whether it preserves bank switching latencies
19:17 < tromp_> gmaxwell: i'm trying to get gpu coders interested in tackling my gpu speed parity bounty
19:17 < tromp_> ethereum's pow is kinda interesting in that it was measured at 40% of runtime being memory latency
19:18 < tromp_> yet it runs very well on gpus
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19:19 < azariah> tromp_: have you tried Tim Hughes? he might be interested
19:19 < tromp_> cuckoo cycle has 67% of runtime being latency, has data dependent branching, and writes as many bits as it reads
19:20 < tromp_> googling tim hughes...
19:20 < tromp_> The Reverend Tim Hughes (born 23 July 1978) is a British worship leader and singer-songwriter
19:20 < tromp_> not that one i guess:)
19:22 < azariah> https://github.com/programmerTim
19:22 < azariah> he helped design Ethereum's PoW and wrote it's OpenCL impl
19:23 < tromp_> ah, thx for the link
19:25 < tromp_> looking around for contact info...
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19:32 < midnightmagic> perhaps the tor browser, being based on the 31.8.0 line, is not vulnerable to the new built-in PDF viewer vulnerability? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1179262 and https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2015-78/ The alpha 5.0 releases are still based on ESR 38, which apparently is..?
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19:37 < tromp_> finally found an email address on log of ethereum-dev channel...
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20:21 < chris13243> any wizards want to code review my bitcoin project?
20:21 < chris13243> https://github.com/priestc/moneywagon
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20:44 < amiller> chris13243, i think its nice
20:45 < amiller> its simple enough so far you can look at it and be pretty convinced it isn't doing some weird insecure things
20:46 < amiller> you or someone else will have to keep updating it every time a service changes its api
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20:51 < chris13243> amiller, yeah i've been adding services to it occasionally over the past few months. for the most part these blockchain services apis are pretty stable
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 08 00:00:34 2015