--- Log opened Tue Sep 01 00:00:57 2015
00:05 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:05 < fluffypony> Eliel: he has a wiki
00:06 -!- Alanius [~alanius@193.190.253.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
00:07 < kanzure> he has irc logs
00:07 < fluffypony> grep -ir "<gmaxwell>" * | grep -i "idea"
00:07 < rabidus> someone should "stream" that :P
00:08 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.18.112] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:09 -!- Alanius [~alanius@ssh2.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:18 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50-202-37-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
00:19 < Eliel> fluffypony: only 3 hits, one which is your line suggesting the grep command :P
00:21 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@91.206.81.13] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:22 < fluffypony> hah hah
00:31 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50.202.37.133] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:37 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
00:48 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:49 < stonecoldpat1> Eliel: dont forget the numerous well-explained reddit posts he makes (one reason I cntl + f nullc on reddit)
00:49 -!- mably [56401ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:50 < gmaxwell> stonecoldpat1: you can mark people as 'friends' and they show up another color.
00:52 < stonecoldpat1> gmaxwell: ah i didnt know that cheers :)
00:53 -!- stonecoldpat1 is now known as stonecoldpat
00:53 -!- mably [56401ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.64.30.195] has quit [Client Quit]
00:55 < gmaxwell> apparently my style rubs a bunch of people the wrong way, :( I get a lot of complaints about being conceited or elitist. :(
00:55 < midnightmagic> Don't forget the wiki subpages
00:56 -!- CodeShark [~androirc@108-90-230-162.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:08 -!- b-itcoinssg [uid41629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxpokmcvmwyssggi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
01:10 < Eliel> gmaxwell: anything that gives off the vibe that you think you know better than whoeveer you're talking to is probably enough to trigger that. I think this article is somewhat relevant http://lesswrong.com/lw/kg/expecting_short_inferential_distances/
01:12 -!- CodeShark [~androirc@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:14 -!- CodeShark_ [~CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:20 < gmaxwell> As much as I distrust Yudkowsky writing about sociology (esp evolutionary motivated) I'm sure there is an element of that to some of these communications challenges.
01:20 < gmaxwell> I think we've seen a lot of issues there with bitcoin's rapid growth. For most of 2014/2013 if you were new to bitcoin you were _likely_ learning about it from someone who was only a month before you, because the userbase was growing very ast.
01:20 < gmaxwell> er fast.
01:21 < Eliel> Well, he might not have the whole picture, but the world started making more sense to me after reading his texts and applying the concepts in them.
01:21 < gmaxwell> And we ended up with pretty big cultural gaps where those of us around from earlier don't even speak the same language... on top of the normal background gaps.
01:23 < Eliel> but yes, you're probably correct that there are language problems too
01:23 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:24 < gmaxwell> Eliel: yes, well the thing to keep in mind is that all ideas are tools. Some ideas are better tools than others, an idea doesn't even have to be _correct_ to be a useful tool, so long as you use it prudently.  Yudkowsky's work has a high level of opinion to researched substance though, and often it makes domain experts cringe. Sometimes severely. It also happens to resonate well with people, but
01:24 < gmaxwell> thats not correlated with it being actually true (something you should know from his writing. :)) so a grain of salt or six is aways advisable (as with any author too). :)
01:25 < gmaxwell> Well 'language' also in this case can mean the inferrential gaps.  "How could the block size have anything to do with security or decenteralization" to quote a prominent CEO, who moments before would have described himself as being well read on the subject.
01:26 < Eliel> ah, yeah, that one is definitely an inferential gap problem right there.
01:26 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@179.8.168.101] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:26 < stonecoldpat> the problem in oct 2013 (when I started) was also a lack of learning material apart from a handful of papers and asking questions in IRC/reading code, so I can't imagine many others going through the trouble to explore it that deeply
01:26 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
01:27 < stonecoldpat> I made jokes to others that the SoK papers were basically what took me a year to learn
01:28 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaqruxwuemkryjon] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:28 < stonecoldpat> (and would have been invaluable back then!)
01:28 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:29 < gmaxwell> Yea, we still don't know how to train people on this stuff. SoK helps, but a lot of the best learning has been interactive.
01:29 < gmaxwell> Also people's tolerances for teaching have diminished over time. :(
01:30 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
01:30 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@179.8.168.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
01:35 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
01:39 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:48 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:52 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
01:59 < amiller> i'm pretty sure i wouldn't have gotten into crypto research at all if it weren't for cool ideas and problems i heard about in irc chat
01:59 < amiller> it's also been really useful to scour mailing list posts from decades ago too
02:00 < amiller> i'm really keen to help preserve all the stuff from this era
02:03 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
02:06 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.23.142] has quit [Excess Flood]
02:07 < gmaxwell> I'll break my normal trend of finding the subject irritating, and post the idea that hard limits of any kind rule system are inherently politically unstable. Even when the limit is protecting an important tradeoff or major design consideration, limits themselves are prone to be seen as obstacles independant of their goals; and only by sustained effort does any limit of political important survive
02:07 < gmaxwell>  without being set to 0 or infinity.
02:07 < gmaxwell> By this analysis perhaps Bitcoin's coin supply cap is inherently more stable because inflation becomes 0, one of the two stable states I suggest for any 'limit'.
02:08 < gmaxwell> And any of these scale proposals that suggest other fixed preprogramed limits are inherently unstable.
02:08 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:08 < gmaxwell> I wonder if anyone has an examples from orginizational or public policy that contradict that intution?
02:10 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.23.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:11 < gmaxwell> Another reason that non-extremal limits are unstable is that they split their support. No matter what the value is, almost no one loves it. People who agree in principle can find plenty of room to disagree about any particular boundary.
02:12 < gmaxwell> This kind of activity is obvious, I think, in things like US immigration policy, and things like enviroment emissions policy whenever they escape the bounds of a boring administrative agency and intersect a political process.
02:14 < Eliel> I suspect a consensus about limits would be easier to reach if it was somehow possible to bill the costs for having higher limits to those who support them.
02:16 < jcorgan> indeed, talk is cheap; opinions tend to be worth the cost of expressing them :-)
02:16 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.18.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
02:18 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50.202.37.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
02:18 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@cpe-66-68-54-206.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
02:20 < gmaxwell> Eliel: well thats why I suggested the difficulty based dynamic sizing.  I think it's almost impossible to make progress though while people are conflating scale with scalability, and I think some of that is the shadow of a hard limit. Hard to say.
02:26 < Eliel> gmaxwell: I think flexcap should be combined with one of the time based solutions so that the real limit is the smaller of the two.
02:28 < gmaxwell> Eliel: yes, well ideally what you can do is make it so that the time thing is hopefully never the actual limit; so that it doesn't get attacked.
02:28 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:28 < Eliel> as in, combining BIP101 with flexcap?
02:29  * gmaxwell refuses to go into the weeds!
02:30 < gmaxwell> I'd started to write a long respose there, as its easy to get into minutia design. :) harder to think about the more general contours.
02:30 < Eliel> :)
02:32 < Eliel> although, it'd probably be better to not have an absolute upper limit, even a growing one but rather a cost that declines as time passes to increase the limit.
02:35 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@cpe-66-68-54-206.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:39 -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@91.176.113.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:39 < gmaxwell> Yes, well a resistance that goes asymtopic.
02:40 < gmaxwell> May be a lot more poltically stable at least. Also, safer in some sense-- but bad engineering, as you can't reasonably test to the 'limit' of what the software would be demanded to do.
02:40 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@ww010103.uvt.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:41 < Eliel> true, but at least it will result in a system where you can pretty accurately predict the actual limits.
02:42 < gmaxwell> yea, but safty is not about the average case, its about the 0.0001% of edge cases. :)
02:45 < Eliel> would it not be good enough?
02:46 < gmaxwell> well that depends, if someone can profitably push a system into an edge case, a one in a billion 'chance' is not very secure!
02:47 < gmaxwell> it's happen with probablity 1.
03:05 < Eliel> hmmh... looking at the growth of average block size for the last 3 years, it looks like even BIP101 would halve the speed of growth.
03:08 < gmaxwell> Eliel: thats meaningless-- in the sense that block size growth has been almost exclosively controlled by the soft limiting settings since late 2012, and has perfectly filled whatever was available, also I think you're actually not measuring the average.
03:09 < gmaxwell> http://ozlabs.org/~rusty/diagrams/blocksize-pretty.svg < 6 hour rolling average.
03:09 < Eliel> I was looking at this https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-block-size?showDataPoints=false&show_header=true&daysAverageString=30&timespan=all&scale=1&address=
03:10 < gmaxwell> http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=498 < related post.
03:20 -!- ratbanebo [~ratbanebo@2a02:1812:1515:2400:410f:83d3:7b90:b37c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:24 -!- p15x [~p15x@123.118.88.244] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
03:25 -!- p15x [~p15x@123.118.88.244] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:30 -!- metamarc [~cypher@unaffiliated/agorist000] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:31 -!- metamarc [~cypher@unaffiliated/agorist000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:31 -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@91.176.113.63] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:33 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:35 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:45 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@ww010103.uvt.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
03:49 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
03:49 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@ww010103.uvt.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:08 -!- ratbanebo [~ratbanebo@2a02:1812:1515:2400:410f:83d3:7b90:b37c] has quit []
04:21 -!- CodeShark_ [~CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
04:30 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
04:32 -!- hazirafel [~ufoinc@bzq-79-180-101-185.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:36 -!- p15x [~p15x@123.118.88.244] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
04:40 -!- p15x [~p15x@123.118.88.244] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:43 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:44 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@pat35-3-82-245-143-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:51 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@ww010103.uvt.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
04:54 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@ww010103.uvt.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
04:55 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
04:58 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-185-201-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:00 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@226.sub-70-193-100.myvzw.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:02 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:11 -!- CodeShark [~androirc@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:14 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
05:23 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:25 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye]
05:26 -!- realcr [~real@bzq-79-178-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:27 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@190-22-212-200.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:32 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@190-22-212-200.baf.movistar.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
05:33 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.19.163] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:42 -!- p15x_ [~p15x@123.118.80.153] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:42 -!- p15_ [~p15@123.118.80.153] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:44 -!- p15 [~p15@209.234.248.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
05:44 -!- p15x [~p15x@123.118.88.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
05:45 -!- p15_ [~p15@123.118.80.153] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
05:46 -!- p15 [~p15@209.234.248.22] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:46 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:59 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-3-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:01 -!- p15_ [~p15@114.244.145.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:02 -!- p15 [~p15@209.234.248.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:02 -!- p15x_ [~p15x@123.118.80.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
06:04 -!- p15_ [~p15@114.244.145.187] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
06:04 -!- p15x [~p15x@64.145.91.43] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:10 -!- p15x [~p15x@64.145.91.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
06:10 -!- p15x_ [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:11 -!- p15 [~p15@114.244.151.135] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:22 -!- c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n
06:34 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:35 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-78-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:40 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.19.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
06:46 -!- prosodyVeContext is now known as prosody
07:02 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@ww010103.uvt.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
07:07 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8301:e87f:b8d1:78a1:ef0c:d34] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:10 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-78-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
07:10 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-78-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:17 -!- hazirafel [~ufoinc@bzq-79-180-101-185.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
07:19 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@190-22-212-200.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:21 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:25 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8301:e87f:b8d1:78a1:ef0c:d34] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
07:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-3-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:47 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:47 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
07:48 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-14-172-248.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:49 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:53 -!- roxtron__ [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.39] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
07:55 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@190-22-212-200.baf.movistar.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
07:56 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:57 -!- Dizzle_ [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:00 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
08:16 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:17 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@74-95-207-205-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:18 -!- Dizzle_ is now known as Dizzle
08:20 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgtviyuokfqsyomy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:22 < Ylbam> hi petertodd, I'm reading your tree-chains preliminary summary http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04388.html
08:23 < Ylbam> I'm a bit difficult understanding this:
08:23 < Ylbam> We now have three different versions of the TXO set: ∑a, ∑a + ∑b, and
08:23 < Ylbam> ∑a+∑c. Each of these versions is consistent in that for a given txoutid
08:23 < Ylbam> prefix we can achieve consensus over the contents of the TXO set.
08:23 < Ylbam> could someone explain please?
08:26 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50-202-37-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:26 -!- heretolearn [uid110997@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgkmvoainxduhmws] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-3-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:29 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:32 -!- StephenM347 [~stephenm3@static-64-223-246-218.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
08:39 -!- realcr [~real@bzq-79-178-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2]
08:47 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-78-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
08:52 < Ylbam> are tree-chains still being worked on by petertodd? haven't found any recent article about it
08:52 < Ylbam> only cited in some recent block size papers
08:56 -!- roxtron__ [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:57 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.39] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:04 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@74-95-207-205-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:07 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:08 < kanzure> can the trustless properties of lightning network-style payment channels be applied across merged-mined chain boundaries? or does that lose some of the trustlessness.
09:11 < kanzure> also i think that if it can be shown that those trustlessness properties hold for that sort of scenario, that a bip70-style payment protocol could be developed where wallets do lightning network-style negotiation and also chain selection where your hubs might have cross-chain presence. then you don't entirely need your merchant (or whoever) to be expecting your original funds to be originating from the same blockchain as they wish to ...
09:11 < kanzure> ... receive them on.
09:12 -!- CodeShark [~CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:13 < kanzure> Ylbam: here are some treechains things,
09:13 < kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1083345.0
09:13 < kanzure> https://github.com/petertodd/tree-chains-paper
09:13 < kanzure> https://letstalkbitcoin.com/ltb104-tree-chains-with-peter-todd/
09:13 < kanzure> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-April/005284.html
09:13 < kanzure> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-March/004797.html
09:13 < Ylbam> ok thanx for the links
09:13 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@2604:2000:c525:200:55d8:933a:1388:c184] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:16 -!- smellymoo [~smellymoo@123.26.77.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:16 < smellymoo> fluffypony, are you online?
09:17 < smellymoo> fluffypony, I think I solved the problem. Want your critic.
09:17 < kanzure> these pseudonyms are dope
09:18 < smellymoo> kanzure, heh.
09:18 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
09:20 < smellymoo> fluffypony, I'll pm you.
09:20 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-14-172-248.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["#tahoe-lafs"]
09:24 < kanzure> benefit of bip70-like payment protocol + payment channels + cross-chain hubs is that you could have committed transaction volume shifting around between different chains. and then you don't have to bottleneck a single blockchain with a billion transactions/second.
09:25 < kanzure> although you would have to come up with a good way to convince people to receive outputs on the other chains....
09:25 < kanzure> or er, to shift their preferences. probably with lower fees.
09:28 < kanzure> also i should note that a bip70-style payment protocol that is interactive between sender and receiver was likely to happen anyway for payment channel reasons and lightning network reasons. offloading even more work into that wallet-to-wallet communication seems like an easy win for everyone.
09:29 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@2604:2000:c525:200:55d8:933a:1388:c184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:29 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:30 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@cpe-74-68-118-99.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:31 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:32 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaqruxwuemkryjon] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
09:32 < kanzure> (((also when i say merged-mined chains above i am also talking about compact spv proof magic for bitcoin teleporation or bitcoin token migration; so convincing someone to accept outputs on another chain is not as hard as otherwise.)))
09:33 -!- CodeShark [~CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has quit []
09:33 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:36 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@cpe-74-68-118-99.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:39 < smellymoo> kanzure, are you talking to yourself?
09:39 < ryan-c> braindumping
09:40 < smellymoo> ryan-c, yeah, I got a totally bitching idea, but I'm going to hold onto it until I figure out the details and write my white paper. Not so good at keeping things in my brain though.
09:44 < kanzure> ryan-c: correct
09:45 < kanzure> irc is mostly asynchronous communication anyway
09:50 -!- b_lumenkraft_ [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:53 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
09:53 -!- b_lumenkraft_ is now known as b_lumenkraft
09:53 -!- kang_ [67efe9ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.239.233.237] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:54 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:55 -!- trippysalmon [rob@2001:984:6466:0:acb0:1d6:1cb1:2149] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:56 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@2604:2000:c525:200:61f5:6664:196a:ce09] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:56 -!- CodeShark [CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:58 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-78-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:59 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
10:07 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
10:25 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-73-202-109-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:26 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:28 -!- triazo [~adam@198.23.202.102] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["end of my coinyDays"]
10:36 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:37 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
10:37 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:38 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit]
10:48 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-3-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:49 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:56 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-yotkqgfsqrxuwbkz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:57 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@cpe-66-68-54-206.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
10:58 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-xvuzeexpcsechuhx] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:05 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:06 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:06 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@91.206.81.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:07 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:09 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-28-106.dyn.MIT.EDU] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:22 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:27 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-28-106.dyn.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
11:28 -!- rodarmor [~rodarmor@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:28 -!- rodarmor [~rodarmor@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]
11:29 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:36 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-28-106.dyn.MIT.EDU] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:45 -!- p15x_ [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
11:47 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.113.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:47 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.113.63] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:48 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:55 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:56 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
11:57 -!- p15x [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:59 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Quit: b_lumenkraft]
12:02 -!- trippysalmon [rob@2001:984:6466:0:acb0:1d6:1cb1:2149] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
12:02 -!- trippysalmon [rob@2001:984:6466:0:acb0:1d6:1cb1:2149] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:07 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@71-222-57-192.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:08 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-73-202-109-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
12:09 -!- LeMiner2 [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:10 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ltupflzjfcymshyy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:10 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:12 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:15 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:15 -!- b-itcoinssg [uid41629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvoqgmxldddrhcoi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:18 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@71-222-57-192.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:18 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@pat35-3-82-245-143-153.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
12:23 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-28-106.dyn.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
12:23 -!- alpalp [6836eb1c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.54.235.28] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]
12:24 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-28-106.dyn.MIT.EDU] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:25 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:25 -!- p15x_ [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:30 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: penjenayah, p15x, Dizzle, Giszmo, jaekwon, wilbns, stevenroose, dEBRUYNE_, amiller, frankenmint,  (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
12:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: badmofo, joesmoe, mr_burdell
12:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: frankenmint, dEBRUYNE_, Dizzle, jaekwon, Giszmo, airbreather, phantomcircuit, amiller, stevenroose, wilbns (+3 more)
12:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: penjenayah, harrow
12:32 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:35 < kanzure> "gpg keyserver gossip visualization" http://bl.ocks.org/diafygi/3f344c22f8a37a7b2151
12:35 -!- p15x_ [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
12:37 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-28-106.dyn.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
12:38 -!- p15x [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:38 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:39 -!- p15x [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
12:39 -!- kang_ [67efe9ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.239.233.237] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
12:40 -!- p15x [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:41 -!- trippysalmon [rob@2001:984:6466:0:acb0:1d6:1cb1:2149] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:43 -!- p15x [~p15x@209.107.193.37] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
12:44 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: frankenmint, stevenroose, catlasshrugged, espes__, wilbns, airbreather, phantomcircuit, Giszmo, jaekwon, amiller,  (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
12:49 -!- Netsplit over, joins: frankenmint, dEBRUYNE_, Dizzle, jaekwon, Giszmo, airbreather, phantomcircuit, amiller, stevenroose, wilbns (+3 more)
12:49 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:51 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@173-10-78-132-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:51 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@173-10-78-132-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
12:53 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p578EB313.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:01 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:03 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-111-82-240.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:08 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-111-82-240.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
13:11 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-33-135.dyn.MIT.EDU] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:16 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
13:21 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@dhcp-18-189-33-135.dyn.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
13:22 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:23 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
13:23 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.39] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:26 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
13:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:42 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:45 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.79] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:45 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.18.127] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:47 < kanzure> giant n-of-m pools based on web-of-trust reputation could allow for much lower fees for various transaction types, but entry into the pool will be much more scrutinous because nobody wants a troublemaker that causes delays or for fraud-correction or revocation transactions to have to hit the blockchain (which might even squader prior fee profitability). but anyway, because the fee savings are so great, this might exert a pressure on ...
13:47 < kanzure> ... scrutiny of members that join an m-of-n signing ring, although personally i hope to see 10k-member signing rings that work reliably for multiple years.
13:47 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:52 -!- wilbns [uid105317@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqogcyrdmgtjvypw] has left #bitcoin-wizards []
14:01 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.23.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:02 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:05 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.23.249] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:07 < kanzure> "query routing for the gnutella network" http://www.cs.kent.edu/~javed/class-P2P12F/qrp.html
14:08 -!- alferz [~alferz@c-174-50-153-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:08 -!- alferz [~alferz@c-174-50-153-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
14:08 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:17 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.39.208.76] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:17 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.39.208.76] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
14:19 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:21 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
14:26 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:29 < kanzure> er, i probably meant n-of-n above
14:30 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-78-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:32 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ltupflzjfcymshyy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
14:32 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@71-222-57-192.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:35 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:35 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:42 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:45 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood]
14:45 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:45 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:48 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.39.208.76] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:48 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.39.208.76] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
14:48 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-yotkqgfsqrxuwbkz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:50 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p578EB313.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:51 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-smjpgnoxfqmtqqom] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:52 -!- MrHodl [~fuc@178.162.211.212] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:56 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:58 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@2604:2000:c525:200:61f5:6664:196a:ce09] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:58 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@2604:2000:c525:200:61f5:6664:196a:ce09] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:02 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p578EB313.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
15:03 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@2604:2000:c525:200:61f5:6664:196a:ce09] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
15:04 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.18.127] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:05 -!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@x4d08d842.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:05 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Disconnected by services]
15:05 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-smjpgnoxfqmtqqom] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:07 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ubrajfwlgvfzcoiz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:08 -!- b-itcoinssg [uid41629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvoqgmxldddrhcoi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
15:11 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: bbl]
15:11 -!- everyBloc [~everybloc@c-73-158-140-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:28 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:30 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:30 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:32 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ubrajfwlgvfzcoiz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:33 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ralwruvswtkhkvfv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:35 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:36 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:41 -!- kyuupichan [~Neil@ae051180.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:41 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:42 -!- kyuupichan [~Neil@ae051180.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:45 -!- StephenM347 [~stephenm3@static-64-223-246-218.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit []
15:47 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
15:50 < kanzure> snarks on authenticated data http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/617 and https://github.com/mbbarbosa/libsnark/commit/006b118255019c8d6b48a065c719c1d217b22458#diff-630828ca6ba73d4e90262cc83f173cc3R4
15:52 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
15:58 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:00 -!- MrHodl [~fuc@178.162.211.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
16:01 -!- binaryatrocity [~quassel@unaffiliated/br4n] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:01 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:01 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@unaffiliated/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
16:02 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@unaffiliated/niftyzero1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:04 -!- binaryatrocity [~quassel@69.85.87.117] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:04 -!- binaryatrocity [~quassel@69.85.87.117] has quit [Changing host]
16:04 -!- binaryatrocity [~quassel@unaffiliated/br4n] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:11 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@cbs-guest-nat1.gsb.columbia.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:12 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:13 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:14 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@cbs-guest-nat1.gsb.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
16:20 -!- a5m0 [~a5m0@unaffiliated/a5m0] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
16:22 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:26 -!- a5m0 [~a5m0@unaffiliated/a5m0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:28 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:30 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:41 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:42 -!- rabidus [~lauri.j@uhiainen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:51 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:51 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
16:51 < kanzure> ecdsa blind signatures http://oleganza.com/blind-ecdsa-draft-v1.pdf and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440572.0
16:59 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
17:01 < ryan-c> anyone know of a way to search for tx outputs of a specific amount?
17:03 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
17:04 < belcher> yeah, sec
17:04 < belcher> i coded something simple a few months ago, queries bc.i
17:04 < ryan-c> cool, i even managed to get them to give me an api key already
17:05 < kanzure> two soft-fork proposals to make use of OP_NOPs https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007831.0 and another one here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1106586.msg11771108#msg11771108  basically one was to flip the behavior of some OP_NOPs and another one is to extend the OP_NOP set
17:06 < belcher> ryan-c http://pastebin.com/mJMziuhP
17:06 < belcher> it was used back then to deanonymize bitcoinfog and other mixers
17:06 < ryan-c> I've been derping around with where brainwallets have been pilfered two
17:07 < ryan-c> to
17:07 < ryan-c> playing around with blockseer a bit but it's pretty limited
17:08 < ryan-c> belcher: that looks perfect, actually - I found a couple clusters of brainwallets with transactions that make a bunch of outputs with the same value, some of which are brainwallets i cracked
17:10 < ryan-c> looks like researcher activity
17:11 < belcher> if i was coding it today i would've used json-rpc, but back then i didnt have the blockchain downloaded
17:11 < ryan-c> json-rpc against bitcoind?
17:11 < belcher> yeah
17:12 < ryan-c> I've found it's gotten very slow to all the transactions in blocks these days
17:12 < belcher> iv also got an alternate script, slightly more complex, which finds multiple txes that pay to one address, and adds up the total btc, searches against that
17:13 < ryan-c> interesting
17:13 < belcher> used specifically for bitcoinfog, because for some reason they pay multiple times to a single address...
17:13 < ryan-c> I was trying to scrape r values and compute z for all transactions a while ago, but it got slow at around block 190,000
17:15 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:15 < kanzure> are you looking for reused r values? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581411.0
17:15 < ryan-c> kanzure: I am not looking for reused r values
17:17 < ryan-c> I am looking for other things which I would prefer not to elaborate on in public.
17:18 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ralwruvswtkhkvfv] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
17:19 -!- nullbyte [~NSA@193.138.219.233] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:21 < kanzure> non-trustless escrow approach to something like the lightning network that could be upgraded to better payment channels later https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1036208.0
17:25 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:41 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:45 -!- nullbyte [~NSA@193.138.219.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:47 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@173-10-78-132-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:48 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:50 -!- nullbyte [~NSA@193.138.219.233] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:51 < kanzure> iacr has a forum http://eprint.iacr.org/forum/
17:52 < kanzure> .. oh it's completely dead. hm.
17:56 < nsh> forums are strongly opposed by the right angle-bracket lobby, to which cryptographers are pretty beholden. so it's mailing-lists until email is retired
17:57 < ryan-c> "angle-bracket lobby"
17:57 < ryan-c> I am so stealing that.
18:00 -!- nullbyte [~NSA@193.138.219.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
18:00  * nsh smiles
18:01 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-nqeyfevafffzdcpy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:09 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-nqeyfevafffzdcpy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:10 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgtviyuokfqsyomy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
18:11 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-doyphhvsoghyzyhw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:19 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:34 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@xd9bf7105.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:34 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@xd9bf7105.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]
18:34 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:36 -!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@x4d08d842.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
18:37 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-doyphhvsoghyzyhw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:37 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:38 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:41 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has quit [Quit: sparetire_]
18:41 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-eyzgnysercnbwgyu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:41 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@173-10-78-132-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3]
18:44 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.101.244.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:46 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@226.sub-70-193-100.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:52 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:55 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
19:02 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:02 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:03 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
19:05 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
19:06 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:08 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:09 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:09 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:13 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:14 -!- smk [9e557647@gateway/web/freenode/ip.158.85.118.71] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:25 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:28 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:28 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-eyzgnysercnbwgyu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
19:28 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:29 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-185-201-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:30 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-wuomsvdvrivdtxfw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:37 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
19:39 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-wuomsvdvrivdtxfw] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
19:41 -!- nullbyte [NSA@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-aprqdfjpgdvjhibh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:46 -!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|zZz
19:46 -!- smellymoo [~smellymoo@123.26.77.206] has quit [Quit: see you.]
19:52 -!- alferz [~alferz@c-174-50-153-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:52 -!- alferz [~alferz@c-174-50-153-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
19:52 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:02 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:06 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:11 -!- polyclef [~polyclef@208.90.213.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:16 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20:17 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:24 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:26 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:26 -!- ebfull [~ebfull@73.34.119.0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:28 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:29 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:29 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:32 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-xvuzeexpcsechuhx] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:34 -!- wdbl [~wdbl@ool-45744c00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:34 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@193.138.219.233] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:36 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:36 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-123-91.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
20:37 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:38 -!- polyclef [~polyclef@208.90.213.198] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:40 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:43 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:44 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:49 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:50 -!- NLNico [~NLNico@unaffiliated/nlnico] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:51 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@193.138.219.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:52 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:54 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@cpe-66-68-54-206.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:58 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:01 -!- wdbl [~wdbl@ool-45744c00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit []
21:01 -!- mengine [~mengine@251.92-221-142.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:03 -!- warptangent [~warptange@unaffiliated/warptangent] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:03 -!- alferz [~alferz@46.166.188.230] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:03 -!- alferz [~alferz@46.166.188.230] has quit [Changing host]
21:03 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:05 -!- warptangent [~warptan@unaffiliated/warptangent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:06 -!- lecusemble [~lecusembl@104.233.76.133] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:12 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:12 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:16 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
21:17 -!- mengine [~mengine@251.92-221-142.customer.lyse.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:25 -!- elastoma [~elastoma@162.248.160.175] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:31 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:39 -!- rabidus [~lauri.j@uhiainen.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:41 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:42 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
21:57 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
22:03 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:04 -!- adam3us [~Adium@172.56.19.87] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:16 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
22:17 -!- btcdrak [uid52049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjoryacxoksdlykg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
22:19 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
22:22 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam]
22:23 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p578EB313.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:32 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:33 -!- kang_ [67efe9ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.239.233.237] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:33 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Client Quit]
22:34 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:37 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:42 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:43 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:49 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
22:51 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:51 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:53 -!- NLNico_ [~NLNico@unaffiliated/nlnico] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:53 -!- NLNico [~NLNico@unaffiliated/nlnico] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:53 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:57 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:10 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@pat35-3-82-245-143-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:11 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:13 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:15 -!- kang_ [67efe9ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.239.233.237] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:22 -!- realcr [~real@bzq-79-178-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:23 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnijrsgowdbxgvjl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:28 -!- LeMiner2 [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:31 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:31 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:39 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
23:42 -!- realcr [~real@bzq-79-178-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2]
23:43 -!- realcr [~real@bzq-79-178-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:46 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:48 -!- btcdrak [uid52049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsesuonavzmksyot] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:53 -!- realcr [~real@bzq-79-178-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2]
--- Log closed Wed Sep 02 00:00:09 2015