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06:52 < kanzure> "self-identifying hashes" https://github.com/jbenet/random-ideas/issues/1 https://github.com/jbenet/multihash
06:53 < kanzure> merkle directed acyclic graph (dag) stuff https://github.com/jbenet/random-ideas/issues/20
06:56 < kanzure> "Compact proofs of retrievability" http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~hovav/dist/verstore.pdf
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07:42 < kanzure> "Decentralizing privacy: Using blockchain to protect personal data" http://web.media.mit.edu/~guyzys/data/ZNP15.pdf
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07:50 < kanzure> multi-party computation involving boolean circuits http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/project/Fairplay/FairplayMP.html
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07:52 < kanzure> two-party mpc https://github.com/encryptogroup/tasty
07:53 < kanzure> https://github.com/cryptobiu/ScGarbledCircuit
07:55 < kanzure> two-party mpc library https://github.com/encryptogroup/ABY
07:56 < kanzure> this says "we went from emulating a trusted third party running a 30 Hz CPU to one running a 6 kHz CPU in two years" (for mpc) http://u.cs.biu.ac.il/~orlandi/icassp-draft.pdf
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10:03 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/310165414338494464
10:03 < yoleaux> You can not able have unlimit scalability without unlimit outage. (@DEVOPS_BORAT)
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10:19 < gmaxwell> hah
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12:42 < psztorc> Hi everyone. I've written something about measuring (and then improving) Bitcoin's decentralization: http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/measuring-decentralization/
12:42 < psztorc> Major conclusion is that centralization is tied to the cost of running a full node.
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12:43 < psztorc> In the process, I also go on a bit of an intense tour of mining and hard/soft forks.
12:45 < kanzure> lots of bolded text, not sure why
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14:09 < smooth> psztorc: your diagram and satoshi quote are kind of busted, since gnutella has supernodes
14:09 < waxwing> argh .. that 'decentralized' vs 'distributed' picture again .. makes no sense :(
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14:11 < waxwing> "It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”"  +1 psztorc
14:11 < waxwing> i like that way of putting it. people tend to think you're some angsty teen anarchist if you only say the second part :)
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14:18 < maaku> that's a very nice tweet-sized expression of decentralization, thanks psztorc
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14:32 < waxwing> psztorc: typo "you need to be join the club, and stay in"
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14:57 < psztorc> thanks everyone
14:59 < nullbyte> its good, psztorc
14:59 < psztorc> smooth: Do you think the gnutella supernodes harms the line of reasoning? I do wish Satoshi had just said "Bittorrent".
15:00 < belcher> the name bitcoin alludes strongly to bittorrent
15:00 < psztorc> Yeah and even the concept of a tracker kind of parallels the genesis block hash
15:02 < psztorc> I did not consider the gnutella supernodes, but I think the ideas survive that incongruity..Satoshi clearly *does* mean "headless", no single point of failure, hard to attack, 100% decentralized.
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15:05 < smooth> psztorc: i dont know enough about how gnutella actually works. i just thought it was a poor fit with the message you were trying to convey with the picture (and following text)
15:06 < psztorc> The other confusing thing is that it kind of overlaps with the Usenet analogy later, hard to know to put all of that in a good order.
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15:10 < smooth> the usenet analogy is an interesting one, but perhaps flawed because spam on usenet made it intolerable to use, not just expensive
15:11 < smooth> so much of the use value was destroyed by spam in a way that wouldn't necessarily be the case with bitcoin (I dont actually to personally sort through other people's junk transactions)
15:11 < smooth> *dont actually need to
15:12 < smooth> nor are people creating bitcoin spam to sell me something
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15:14 < zooko> smooth: sounds exactly right.
15:14 < zooko> Usenet was *not* killed by spam soaking up its bulk data capacity.
15:15 < zooko> It was killed by spam soaking up its human-navigation capacity.
15:15 < smooth> zooko: the volume de facto centralized it though, which was part of psztorc's point i think
15:17 < smooth> back in the day you just needed a modem and some peer willing to feed you. later it became almost entirely buying access to a large server from some corp
15:17 < psztorc> I intended to express the concept that, while the data was itself decentralized, the actual *data layer* (the cables and computers) weren't private and were therefore subordinate to a central legislature.
15:17 < zooko> I haven't seen psztorc's write-up yet, sorry.
15:17 < zooko> I don't know if I agree with "volume centralized Usenet" and I don't think that even if it did that was relevant to Usenet's death.
15:17 < zooko> But maybe psztorc knows more about the history of Usenet than I do. :-)
15:17 < smooth> i agree death was more human based
15:17 < smooth> human capacity
15:18 < zooko> psztorc: that sounds wrong to me. Usenet was never successfully legislated/policed.
15:19 < zooko> It was unnecessary for it to be, since it died due to spam overloading the human navigation systems long before legislators or police knew what it was. :-)
15:19 < zooko> I believe it is still in use for bulk illegal data today.
15:19 < psztorc> Funny you should mention that, I bring it up.
15:19 < smooth> yeah i agree. charles schumer never went on tv and called for banning usenet
15:19 < zooko> Okay, sorry, I'll shut up until I read your writings. :-)
15:19 < smooth> although if he knew what was on there he certainly woudl have
15:20 < psztorc> But I don't know a lot about Usenet...I did some background reading and multiple sources agreed that law enforcement put pressure on ISPs to deprecate the service.
15:20 < smooth> i think that is largely true
15:20 < smooth> maybe not even law enforcement per se, but their own lawyers
15:20 < psztorc> And basically 0% of the current internet users even know what it is (which deserves some explanation).
15:21 < psztorc> But I really do NOT know a lot about Usenet, and would welcome any corrections.
15:22 < psztorc> My Usenet point is that, if the government *really* cared (big if), they could close Usenet down.
15:25 < zooko> psztorc: okay, I'm 85% sure that what you say is 92% correct. Gotta run. :-)
15:25 < psztorc> Ok thanks : )
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15:49 < kanzure> "todd trees"
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18:31 < tanath> actually, usenet is neither dead, nor unpoliced
18:31 < tanath> dmca takedowns galore
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20:35 < kanzure> "wikipedia tls cipher stats" https://grafana.wikimedia.org/#/dashboard/db/tls-ciphers
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21:31 < SheffieldCrypto> Hello all, we are looking so a trading system architect to build a system centered around the signals produced from our advanced predictive models, please review our recruitment doc and apply if you feel you are qualified https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mu_E3-TrYqM47at9srR7srBdDCjWq29Ia3y8nGS2n-I/edit
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23:24 < maaku> tanath: are you confusing usenet index servers with usenet itself?
23:25 < tanath> no, content actually does get taken down from usenet
23:25 < tanath> most these days have a mix of servers as backup to get all the parts they need
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23:25 < tanath> or, they're taken down fast enough that you have to be quick to beat it
23:26 < maaku> tanath: what I mean is usenet is decentralized. you can run your own usenet server
23:26 < tanath> they've started going more underground. more private. using random names
23:27 < tanath> you need the indexer or something to know what the files actually are, since they're randomly named to avoid takedown
23:28 < tanath> technically yes, but there's dmca for america, eucd or whatever for europe...
23:28 < maaku> serving files via usenet is weird to me. like a broken hack that shouln't have worked in the first place :\
23:28 < tanath> actually good things have come of it. like par2
23:28 < tanath> wish that was more widespread
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