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05:35 < azariah> gmaxwell: not sure being gcc targetable really is a big benefit for a smart contract VM. given the cost of blockchain verification of executions, I doubt many would want to directly port existing programs.
05:36 < azariah> most use cases of smart contracts require lot's of fluff around the actual contract - GUIs, centralized user handling, etc. offloading only the core consensus critical parts to the smart contract code. for such use cases rewriting a program to a new VM is probably the lesser effort
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05:46 < azariah> the consensus bugs / sec vulns found in the Ethereum VM, both prior to and after it's launch, could be a interesting case study with regards to what is hard to get consensus on in a smart contract VM
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05:48 < azariah> most of their consensus issues where around VM exceptions & when state transitions affected the life cycle of contracts (contract creation, deletion)
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06:00 < jgarzik> azariah, It's not about porting existing programs
06:00 < jgarzik> azariah, it's about having an existing toolchain ecosystem.  You can pick your favorite programming language, and have existing debuggers profilers and more to use.
06:01 < jgarzik> The alternative is reinventing all that stuff.. poorly
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07:29 < jgarzik> kanzure, Did the Big Pile O Ideas ever get archived into a single link, however unsorted?
07:30 < kanzure> jgarzik: at the moment there is http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/bitcoin-selected-bookmarks.2015-09-09.yaml
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07:30 < kanzure> jgarzik: i am having trouble figuring out how to organize the index, struggling with signal/noise theoretical concerns.
07:31 < kanzure> jgarzik: advice appreciated
07:32 < jgarzik> kanzure, I don't see my IRC idea dump :)
07:32 < jgarzik> kanzure, IM chain for example
07:32 < kanzure> i have your dump stored somewhere else
07:32 < jgarzik> gah!  Then it's not a single link.  :)
07:32 < kanzure> i really do need help figuring out correct format and how to sort signal/noise on this project, otherwise it will just be list of 2000 things and nobody will use it.
07:33 < jgarzik> kanzure, I disagree that organization should be a blocker
07:34 < kanzure> elaborate plz?
07:34 < jgarzik> kanzure, release early, release often.  rapidly iterate.
07:34 < jgarzik> kanzure, get everything into a single link that is Ctrl-F searchable
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07:34 < jgarzik> the crowd can help take it from there
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07:43 < kanzure> jgarzik: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/big-pile.txt
07:43 < kanzure> now show me the crowd's magic.
07:45 < zooko> Could you make it hyperlinkable to subsets? Perhaps by adding an anchor to each line or each section?
07:45 < kanzure> i am not convined that a random scratchpad is a good starting point for this
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07:51 < bsm1175321> If I throw up a MediaWiki, will some of you start pushing this stuff into it?
07:53 < kanzure> well i can put it on a wiki if that will convince you to contribute.... http://diyhpl.us/wiki/bitcoin/big-pile/
07:53 < kanzure> also accessible here: https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/blob/master/bitcoin/big-pile.mdwn
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07:54 < bsm1175321> kanzure do you want to wiki-fy this?
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07:56 < kanzure> not at the moment, it would be nice if someone else would
07:57 < bsm1175321> Your list is overwhelming.
07:57 < kanzure> (.mdwn is markdown, theoretically)
07:57 < kanzure> yes well jgarzik was pushing me for "release early" so there you go
07:57 < bsm1175321> I almost want to write a script to parse it...
07:58 < kanzure> for the bookmarks you can just use a yaml parser, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/bitcoin-selected-bookmarks.2015-09-09.yaml
07:59 < kanzure> the yaml format there is used by a bookmarking tool that i'm fond of, https://github.com/davidlazar/jotmuch
08:00 < bsm1175321> I see
08:01 < kanzure> ((yaml is best analogized as a superset of json))
08:02 < bsm1175321> I'm going to sit here and be overwhelmed for a little while longer.  But thinking...
08:02 < kanzure> "I disagree that organization should be a blocker" :-)
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09:08 < kanzure> btcdrak: way ahead of you, http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011158.html
09:10 < btcdrak> LOL
09:10 < btcdrak> kanzure: looks like we pressed send at almost the same time haha
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14:07 < gmaxwell> Does anyone have access to a latest generation amd opteron that they could run the libsecp256k1 benchmarks on?
14:08 < nsh> shame no-one implemented ctcp cpuinfo
14:08 < nsh> (no, sorry; will ask about)
14:10 < gmaxwell> I'm trying to figure out what part yields the greatest _verify per dollar and _verify per part right now. :)
14:10 < gmaxwell> maybe I should make a little test collection script that runs the benchmark and submits its result and cpuinfo someplace. :)
14:11 < nsh> someone available has a ' model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1381 '
14:11 < nsh> unsure if this is latest generation
14:14 < gmaxwell> Alas, thats pre bulldozer, so pretty different from the most recent arch.  I think I have one of roughtly that generation available.
14:14 < nsh> ah, shame
14:15 < nsh> maybe if you write them a nice email...
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14:19 < kanzure> maaku: re: near blocks, weak blocks, etc., i see how share chain is related but not sure about partial blocks. can't find anything. plz show.
14:20 < kanzure> (re: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m2wpf/bitcoindev_weak_block_thoughts/cvbrmjv )
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14:26 < maaku> kanzure: interesting. i've seen and used the term myself in conversation, but google results and log greps are confirming your result
14:29 < nsh> well, there was that one timeline where the blockchain became self-aware and nearly destroyed all human civilisation and we had to retrocausally elide all the theory that immanentised the cryptoeschaton
14:29 < nsh> so maybe you're remembering sideways or something
14:32 < maaku> nsh: must be it
14:33  * maaku remembers to go work on his skynet branch
14:33  * nsh nods
14:33 < nsh> hehe
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14:38 < TD-Linux> gmaxwell, is ECC ram a requirement? if not I think the consumer ones would be even better
14:39 < gmaxwell> I'm interested only in ECC capable parts; but others might not be.. knowing how well a particular microarchitecture does should generally well enough.
14:39 < gmaxwell> I just don't have any idea how well they perform.. the current generation intel atom stuff is much slower than you'd expect.
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 24 00:00:37 2015