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09:12 < kanzure> SHA-1 collisions for ~$120k of ec2 time https://sites.google.com/site/itstheshappening/shappening_article.pdf
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09:50 < fluffypony> kanzure: nice, it even has a snappy name
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10:02 < waxwing> yeah better than https://shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com/
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10:12 < maaku> it's free-start so 37k7toV1Nv4DfmQbmZ8KuZDQCYK9x5KpzP remains unclaimed...
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12:41 < fluffypony> oh good, DASH solved the 51% attack problem: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12627834#msg12627834
12:41 < fluffypony> the trick is to state it as solved on a slide at a conference, and never elaborate on how
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12:52 < phantomcircuit> fluffypony, lol
12:53 < fluffypony> "Nothing in crypto can compare to this project in terms of innovation and future promise, nothing."
12:53 < fluffypony> honestly, I think I lose brain cells every time I read that thread
12:54 < bsm117532> I lose brain cells any time I read anything on bitcointalk...
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12:55 < fluffypony> taht too
12:55 < fluffypony> *that
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12:59 < kanzure> "The origin of quorum systems" http://www.eurecom.fr/~vukolic/QuorumsOrigin.pdf
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14:04 < bramc> So I'm working on a merkle set data structure
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14:07 < kanzure> cool. details?
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14:09 < bramc> kanzure, there's a mix of good features and things I'm not going to be implementing in the first version
14:09 < kanzure> what are the things you will be skipping?
14:10 < bramc> The biggest features are that it clumps things together in memory to avoid cache misses and supports batch updates to reduce the amount of wasteful hash recalculation it's doing, both of which have the potential to be massive improvements under some circumstances
14:11 < bsm117532> Could you provide a link for "Merkle Set"?  I can imagine by analogy but have never heard of this...
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14:12 < kanzure> bramc: maybe there's some tricks here where you can setup the delta update algorithm to be biased towards being really good at the type of update frequency that natural data (e.g. extracted from its designer looking at blockchain data) that the data structure would be used for.
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14:12 < bramc> The things which will be missing in the first version: It will be in Python instead of C, it won't be benchmarked and optimized, it will be implemented to preallocate all memory it might use up front instead of doing dynamic malloc, it won't do background maintenance, it won't support giving up space if the set gets smaller, it's a set and not a dictionary
14:13 < bramc> kanzure, My goal is to make something which is format compatible with what maaku's already written but much more performant and with fewer external dependencies
14:13 < kanzure> bsm117532: https://gist.github.com/maaku/2aed2cb628024800044d
14:13 < bramc> bsm117532 Not a standard data structure. It's a set which keeps the merkle root of its contents up to date, specifically for use in maintaining utxo roots
14:14 < kanzure> hm what is background maintenance
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14:20 < bramc> There's some rebalancing of the tree which is moderately expensive which can be done in the background so that the updates are always fast
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14:26 < bramc> On the other hand, waiting until the last moment to do rebalancing is more space efficient.
14:27 < bramc> Likewise, I'm making it defended against malicious content trying to make it inefficient, and some expense to average lookup time on non-malicious content, but also being more space efficient again.
14:28 < bramc> Obviously it won't be production ready with the list of things left to do, but the idea is to get the ideas down and easy for other people to pick up and maintain.
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14:54 < nwilcox> Was bramc talking about a UTXO state commitment tree, perchance?
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14:57 < bramc> nwilcox, Yes I was
15:00 < nwilcox> Cool. Do you have a public design or code?
15:01 < bramc> nwilcox, No I'm still in the design phase, I think I mostly have the basics sorted out and hope to start coding shortly.
15:01 < bramc> I'm not giving the blow by blow on my design iteration because it's a lot of unnecessary detail which leads nowhere except for the parts I'll eventually keep
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15:02 < bramc> The intention is for other people to have actual code to play with as soon as possible, which of course means that that code won't be even vaguely production ready
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15:07 < phantomcircuit> bramc, have you seen the utxo commitments which commit to the set but not the individual members of the set?
15:07 < phantomcircuit> ie XOR all the things together and commit to that
15:08 < phantomcircuit> it's nice in that it doesn't have any scaling issues
15:08 < bramc> phantomcircuit, That's horribly busted, you can easily construct collisions
15:08 < phantomcircuit> it's not in that it's useless for spv clients
15:08 < phantomcircuit> bramc, yeah i described it incorrectly
15:09 < phantomcircuit> find and ask sipa :)
15:09 < bramc> I will, but the whole point of this is to fix spv. Well, that and allow for nodes to not have a complete history
15:11 < instagibbs> hopefully soon questions about utxo commitment strategies are replied to with "read the wiki" rather than "find Bob and ask" ;)
15:11 < ryan-c> anyone know of a publicly available tool that will find the shortest path of transactions between two addresses?
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15:37 < bramc> instagibbs, Things are still under construction. Much better documentation will of course be necessary for a real extension to get added.
15:39 < phantomcircuit> bramc, i actually view the fixing of spv clients as less important then fixing the full node download issues
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16:25 < bsm117532> Could UTXO commitments assist in sharding the blockchain?
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16:55 < CodeShark> has anyone tinkered with sharding using STXO/MMR commitments?
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17:14 < phantomcircuit> bsm117532, no
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17:24 < bsm117532> Well that's definitive... Seems to me that if I'm holding a subset of UTXOs (a shard, by definition), then I'd need some kind of knowledge about the global state.
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22:47 < midnightmagic> ryan-c: someone has built jgrapht into gephi.. jgrapht does dijkstra's. http://activeintelligence.org/blog/archive/graph-algorithms-libraries-for-java/
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 09 00:00:52 2015