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[~kristoffe@37.37-191-175.fiber.lynet.no] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:13 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:25 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:26 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:26 < instagibbs> Does ZK pathfinding refer to the intermediate points not finding anything out, or the sender/receiver not finding out route path, or? 06:40 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-212-71.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:43 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:53 -!- adam3us [~Adium@m121-202-137-111.smartone.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:53 -!- shesek [~shesek@84.110.37.115] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:53 < jl2012> just to clarify, the "version byte" in sipa's talk is part of scriptPubKey, not the witness? 07:01 -!- eudoxia 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ZZZzzz…] 07:32 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@tardis.krellan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:34 -!- MagikSquirrel [~MagikSqui@unaffiliated/magiksquirrel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:43 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:43 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@tardis.krellan.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:45 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.10.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:45 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:47 -!- pandabearit [~pandabear@pool-98-118-162-190.bflony.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:48 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:54 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ycckocqcwhmldoim] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57 -!- Casper- [~Casper@garza.riseup.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.10.241] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:02 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:04 -!- atgreen_ [~green@209.171.88.86] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:06 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:06 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:09 -!- fkhan [~weechat@2a02:750:a1:a::1e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:09 -!- fkhan [~weechat@2a02:750:a1:a::1e] has quit [Changing host] 08:09 -!- fkhan [~weechat@unaffiliated/loteriety] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:10 -!- Casper- [~Casper@garza.riseup.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 -!- NewLiberty [~Joseph@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:25 -!- Erik_dc [~erik@d54c620ed.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@nz112l15.bb11352.ctm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:35 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@nz112l15.bb11352.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:40 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:43 -!- TrippySalmon [~rob@ip4da81ded.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44 < kanzure> what is a good link for linearized coin history explanation? 08:49 -!- zookolaptop [~user@n11211973234.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:53 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:53 < instagibbs> only writeup I know of: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u1m36/why_arent_we_as_a_community_talking_about/cxbamhn 08:53 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:55 -!- brg444 [18257df2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.37.125.242] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:58 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@75-175-72-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:01 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-139-55-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:05 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-139-55-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:05 -!- Jeremy_Rand [~jeremy@172.56.6.1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:06 -!- Guest78125 [~gwillen@li450-236.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:06 -!- Guest78125 [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:06 -!- Guest78125 is now known as gwillen 09:15 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:16 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:19 < kanzure> does anyone have a good explanation link for "encrypted transactions" and "committed transactions" from adam3us? 09:21 < kanzure> there was an okay summary in a recent presentation by adam3us but uh i get the impression that he thinks there is a more elaborate explanation floating around out there 09:24 < frankenmint> I should also ask here for help too: https://www.reddit.com/user/dev_list_bot 09:28 -!- SgtStroopwafel [~Chuck@s5597aba6.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31 -!- SgtStroopwafel [~Chuck@s5597aba6.adsl.online.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:33 -!- atgreen_ [~green@209.171.88.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38 < kanzure> more on lightning and onion routing http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2015-December/000369.html 09:40 -!- Casper- [~Casper@garza.riseup.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zvhpjgsjisvzklrx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:42 < Guest53789> instagibbs: onion routing is when the intermediate points know nothing about the payment 09:42 -!- Guest53789 is now known as maaku 09:44 < maaku> instagibbs: ZK pathfinding is when the sender doesn't know the network and so cannot construct the path ... it sends a query to its peers, and gets back an onion route + fee 09:44 < maaku> *fee description 09:45 < maaku> kanzure: linearized coin history is exactly the same as coin coloring, so there are probably many colored coin articles that explain the concept 09:46 < maaku> kanzure: committed transactions was explained on the bitcointalk forum many years ago but my internet is too slow to find it (one of the first posts by adam3us, so that might be the best way to find it) 09:47 < kanzure> how is linearized coin history exactly the same as colored coins? i thought linearized coin history requires miner validation of rules. 09:47 < kanzure> i think at this point "coin coloring" and "colored coins" has been corrupted by a bunch of competing proposals, i am thinking mostly of the "put some extra data in OP_RETURN" proposals heh 09:48 < kanzure> if you mean something else, then i'm not sure what 09:49 < maaku> kanzure: nope it actually requires less miner validation -- a transaction needs to be valid even if one or more of its inputs is invalid 09:50 < maaku> kanzure: a colored coin traces its asset type by following coins back to their genesis transaction, lining up input satoshis with output satoshis 09:50 < kanzure> okay, so in this context, you definitely don't mean "OP_RETURN colored coins". heh. 09:51 < maaku> most definately not 09:51 < maaku> i mean the original colored coin proposals, where you draw a line from each input satoshi to each output satoshi 09:52 < maaku> and by tracing history backwards like this, each satoshi gets assigned an asset 'color' based on what generating transactino it can trace itself back to 09:53 < maaku> likewise for linearized coin histories, you trace each satoshi back and _only_ validate the inputs associated with it 09:55 < maaku> this happens to require that miners reject any transaction containing a double spend, but allow transactions which have an invalid signature for an input (that input just doesn't contribute to the transaction) 09:56 < kanzure> still confused. linearized coin history was about clients providing some history proofs that the transaction is valid. most colored coin proposals were merely about coloring of satoshis, not about increasing the validation load more towards payment senders... 09:56 < maaku> i have no idea if this is written up anywhere ... i sortof fixated on linearized coin histories during his talk and figured this all out, then confirmed it during the q&a ... i sortof missed the rest of the talk because I was too busy working this out 09:56 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:56 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:56 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:58 < maaku> kanzure: correct. to my knowledge colored coins were never meant as a scaling solution. i'm just saying that the "linearized coin history" algorithm is exactly the same as the category of colored coin proposals explored by Alex Mizrahi 09:58 < maaku> Alex Mizrahi / killerstorm 09:59 < maaku> the proof that a coin is colored a certain way *is* a linearized coin history 10:00 < maaku> petertodd's contribution is to point out that if you relax the validation rules a little bit, you can use this algorithm to get perfecdt sharding 10:00 -!- mrkent [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:04 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:04 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:05 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06 -!- adam3us [~Adium@m121-202-137-111.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06 -!- atgreen_ [~green@CPE687f74122463-CM00fc8d24cab0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:09 -!- Starduster_ is now known as Starduster 10:09 -!- adam3us [~Adium@45.64.240.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:12 -!- eudoxia 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[~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:52 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.29.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59 -!- LeMiner2 [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14 -!- mrkent_ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:30 -!- SgtStroopwafel [~Chuck@s5597aba6.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:32 -!- c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n 12:33 -!- SgtStroopwafel [~Chuck@s5597aba6.adsl.online.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:39 -!- e0 [~e0@cs10-dhcp99.bu.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:39 < e0> any buddy up for answering a dumb question? 12:40 < e0> body 12:41 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@213.205.251.208] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:44 < coinoperated_rob> I can offer to read a dumb question uncritically, no guarantees on a quality answer tho. 12:58 -!- superman_ [2e7f66c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.127.102.197] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:59 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Quit: bendavenport] 13:00 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:01 -!- brg444 [18257df2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.37.125.242] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:03 < amiller> e0, just ask! 13:03 < e0> sorry, got districted 13:04 < e0> why does OP_CHECKSIG include the subscript of scriptpubkey in the input of the scriptsig? 13:04 -!- fkhan [~weechat@unaffiliated/loteriety] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:05 < e0> is there some security benefit I am missing? 13:10 -!- superman_ [2e7f66c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.127.102.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-yqcqeprchyjuxube] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:17 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-yqcqeprchyjuxube] has quit [Changing host] 13:17 -!- fkhan [weechat@unaffiliated/loteriety] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:17 -!- fkhan [weechat@unaffiliated/loteriety] has quit [Changing host] 13:17 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-yqcqeprchyjuxube] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:18 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:27 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:30 < e0> anyone? 13:34 < arubi> e0, I'll only try and answer because I think this wasn't a dumb question at all, though really I don't believe I'm in a place to answer questions in this channel, so be advised. No, I don't think you're missing anything. I do think though that it's nice to be able to tell a signer that doesn't keep track of past transactions what it is that she needs to input, and have her commit by a signature to it. Only issue is, she is still in the dark 13:34 < arubi> wrt actual amounts.. so she might be signing away coins as fees, even though she things she's just sending coins to addresses that she agreed to 13:35 < arubi> again, reiterating, I'm in no place to answer these type of questions here.. 13:38 < e0> It seems to me the most important things to sign are txid, output_index and some subset of the spending outputs 13:38 < e0> thanks 13:39 < arubi> e0, again, not all signers keep track of inputs. this is a problem for them. they can't blindly sign whatever transaction is presented to them, even though they know they're signing for outputs that they agreed to 13:45 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:47 < e0> when you say signers, you mena someone that holds some Bitcoins and wishes to spend them? 13:48 < arubi> yes. 14:00 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Quit: bendavenport] 14:01 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:01 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:05 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:09 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@cpe-98-157-219-44.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:24 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 14:25 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4-dev] 14:26 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:26 -!- brg444 [46346d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.52.109.0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:33 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:33 -!- TBI_ [~TBI@20.84-48-195.nextgentel.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:35 -!- TBI [~TBI@84.48.195.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@59-100-109-145.cust.static-ipl.aapt.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:37 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:39 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:42 -!- a5m0 [~a5m0@unaffiliated/a5m0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@59-100-109-145.cust.static-ipl.aapt.com.au] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ] 14:45 -!- Erik_dc [~erik@d54c620ed.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:55 < pigeons> http://jedmccaleb.com/2015/12/08/lightning-for-stellar/ 15:00 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:00 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@59-100-109-145.cust.static-ipl.aapt.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:02 -!- a5m0 [~a5m0@unaffiliated/a5m0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:06 -!- tripleslash_s [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:07 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:14 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.39.254.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:14 -!- AnoAnon [~AnoAnon@197.39.254.21] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:17 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@213.205.251.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@59-100-109-145.cust.static-ipl.aapt.com.au] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ] 15:26 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:27 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:28 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 15:28 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:28 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:31 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:34 -!- dave4925 [dave4925@unaffiliated/dave4925] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43 -!- pozitron [~nu@195-154-231-147.rev.poneytelecom.eu] has quit [K-Lined] 15:47 -!- Jeremy_Rand [~jeremy@172.56.6.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:54 < aj> dammit, now whenever i type "sipa" into my url bar, i get the segwit branch instead of the cltv version graph... 15:56 < kanzure> this is fixed by never closing any tabs ever 15:58 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:02 < nsh> (confirmed by science) 16:03 < coinoperated_rob> so which one of you is craig steven wright... 16:04 < justanotheruser> who cares 16:04 < kanzure> off-topic 16:04 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 < coinoperated_rob> for now, sure. 16:04 < kanzure> ((satoshi speculation has always been off-topic, even when satoshi was satoshi dorito nakamoto, or satoshi trammel)) 16:05 < justanotheruser> perhaps #bitcoin-satoshi-speculation 16:05 < kanzure> nah it was #bitcoin-satoshispeculation 16:05 < justanotheruser> but I already banned everyone from the first :( 16:05 < kanzure> hmm interesting problem 16:06 < coinoperated_rob> there was a chan just for that? who has the time 16:08 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:10 < gmaxwell> tulip is, obviously. 16:11 < jcorgan> #bitcoin-satoshispeculation was created back in the Dorian days 16:11 < jcorgan> it is live again 16:17 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phqzrvddjjreuntp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:19 -!- coinoperated_tv [~coinopera@c-73-163-103-87.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:19 -!- bliljerk_ [~bliljerk1@c-71-60-0-241.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:20 -!- NewLiberty [~Joseph@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:21 < nsh> -- 16:21 < nsh> A method of generating cryptographic keys to implement a Failsafe Key Escrow system. A prime modulus Q and a generator G for ZQ are publicly known. The public key PX that is escrowed for user X is GSX mod Q, where Sx is the secret key for user X. The user picks a random secret value A from [0, Q-2] and announces the value of GA mod Q to a set of trustees or a central authority. Next the user "shares 16:21 < nsh> " A with the trustees using a verifiable secret sharing scheme. The trustees and/or the central authority selects a random value B from the interval [0, Q-2] and they set the user's public key to be PX =(GA)GB mod Q. The value of B is returned to the user and is escrowed with the public key for X. The value of B is not released to the public. The user's then sets his secret key to be SX =A+B mod (Q- 16:21 < nsh> 1). 16:21 < nsh> -- https://www.google.si/patents/US5647000 16:21 -!- luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:22 -!- bliljerk101 [~bliljerk1@c-71-60-0-241.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22 -!- atgreen_ [~green@CPE687f74122463-CM00fc8d24cab0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:22 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22 -!- coinoperated_rob [~coinopera@c-73-163-103-87.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22 -!- sdaftuar [~sdaftuar@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23 -!- sdaftuar [~sdaftuar@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:23 -!- atgreen_ [~green@CPE687f74122463-CM00fc8d24cab0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:23 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@bryan.fairlystable.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@bryan.fairlystable.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:29 -!- zookolaptop [~user@n11211973234.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.115.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@169.203-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:45 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:47 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:57 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:58 -!- brg444 [46346d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.52.109.0] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:01 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:05 -!- taek42- [~david@202.83.241.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:06 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yrwrqxukqqscrqad] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:13 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:21 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.30.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34 -!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|zZz 17:47 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Quit: bendavenport] 17:48 -!- GAit [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:49 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.31.8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:52 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52 -!- the`doctor [~the`docto@unaffiliated/thedoctor/x-1964342] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:52 -!- adam3us [~Adium@45.64.240.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57 -!- the`doctor [~the`docto@unaffiliated/thedoctor/x-1964342] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:59 -!- taek42- [~david@202.83.241.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01 -!- GAit1 [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:02 < moa> tulip: you around ? 18:02 -!- GAit [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:07 < bramc> amiller, We got a reply. I sent a response explaining my new idea about making the challenge for a block be not just based on a previous block but on top of a proof of time on top of that block. 18:08 -!- Jeremy_Rand [~jeremy@172.56.6.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.31.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13 < amiller> bramc, noted 18:19 -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.31.113] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:23 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@50.141.31.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 -!- PRab [~chatzilla@68.34.102.231] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151029151421]] 18:29 < amiller> to clarify the context of the above, we've been talking here recently about how to combine proofs of time, proofs of space, to make a nice cryptocurrency design 18:30 -!- PRab [~chatzilla@c-68-34-102-231.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:31 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@unaffiliated/tiraspol] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33 < amiller> nevermind, it was way better without any context 18:33 -!- oldbrew [brew@24-212-254-57.cable.teksavvy.com] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 18:35 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:37 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:48 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58 < gmaxwell> I don't normally ask for pile-ons; but a small wall of "nullc is right, you're confused." might actually help get through not just this guys head, but a whole little community he represents that thinks bitcoin works in a way which appears to be physically impossible: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vt62n/gavin_andresen_explains_why_he_prefers_bip_101/cxsdivn?context=2 18:58 < kanzure> the other thing to point out is that, in addition to the lack of a miner relay network, is that even if there was one, "The reason it won't is because the longest chain is determined by the mining relay" is nonsense because it would require another consensus layer (determination) 18:59 < kanzure> ((this other consensus layer is clearly not implemented)) 19:05 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:07 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14 -!- tripleslash_s is now known as tripleslash 19:15 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has quit [Quit: sparetire_] 19:15 < alpalp> gmaxwell: unfortunately people just want to believe what they want to believe. 19:16 < kanzure> i have shamelessly stolen your words and didn't attribute you in my reply to Adrian-X, hope you're cool with that (sue me) (please don't) 19:21 -!- cwcwccwe [6c3485ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.52.133.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:21 < gmaxwell> when you repeat my words, they become your words. You deal with the consequences. :P 19:22 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:24 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25 -!- cwcwccwe [6c3485ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.52.133.206] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26 < kanzure> "the martian miners would have no incentive to mine on top of their own blocks if they want resources from earth." 19:26 < morcos> gmaxwell: i just spent 5 mins trying to understand what he was saying. have you ever seen billy madison? i blame you. reddit! 19:27 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:28 < morcos> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtNHuqHWefU 19:28 < kanzure> .title 19:28 < yoleaux> Billy Madison - Insanely Idiotic (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube 19:28 * jcorgan is sad that someone like gmaxwell has to waste time and energy refuting idiots. it just makes them feel important. 19:29 -!- kelly [c037362a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.55.54.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:30 < gmaxwell> This particular person is historically confused; but from folling traffic on the RogerVer created forum there is a community of a good dozen people who basically think the same things, all self reinforcing. 19:30 < kanzure> even idiots can make good colleagues and even good contributors. better to refute an idea. 19:31 < gmaxwell> I think the fundimental misunderstanding is that nodes have "perfect global knoweldge"; or that when describing a situation they fail to partition what the node knows from what they know. 19:32 < alpalp> Absolutely, refuting points is not for stubborn blockheads but for others who might read 19:33 < kanzure> wait what do blockheaders have to do with this? 19:39 < moa> gmaxwell: it is the remnants of the cypherdoc cult ... sigh they are beyond help i think until the spell is broken 19:43 -!- jposner [~jposner@ca.00.39a9.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:45 < kanzure> i replied a second time, didn't notice the other one oops. probably redundant... 19:45 < kanzure> ( https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vt62n/gavin_andresen_explains_why_he_prefers_bip_101/cxsek0s ) 19:46 -!- NewLiberty [~Joseph@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:46 -!- NLNico [~NLNico@unaffiliated/nlnico] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:48 < alpalp> I am always a bit shocked how strong opinions people hold on such simple but technical discussions 19:49 -!- p15 [~p15@20.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:49 < jcorgan> nobody is more vehement about there beliefs than those can hold them without consequence or any stake in the outcome 19:49 < jcorgan> their* 19:50 < kanzure> lotta platitudes floatng around in here. easier and cheaper to just refute directly than paying the cost of such hefty assumptions....... 19:51 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phqzrvddjjreuntp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:52 -!- phantomcircuit is now known as phantiomcircuit 19:53 -!- phantiomcircuit is now known as phantomcircuit 19:55 < gmaxwell> moa: I've been trying to goad them into participating on http://bitcoinocracy.com/ with the patter they spin, it had seemed like their ignorance was only matched by the magnitude of their bitcoin holdings; but it seems that that might be hot-air too. 19:56 -!- el33th4x0r [68e5aa14@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.229.170.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:00 < kanzure> "If the majority of the users/services who use Bitcoin are on the earth, then earth nodes will be the choosers of the longest-chain." 20:00 < kanzure> i'm... not sure how they think that has anything to do with bitcoin. 20:02 -!- akstunt600 [~akstunt60@65.78.54.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:09 < instagibbs> "there is a community of a good dozen people who basically think the same things, all self reinforcing" Wait are we talking about -wizards here? ;) 20:09 -!- mrkent_ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has quit [] 20:09 -!- luke-jr_ is now known as Luke-Jr 20:10 < phantomcircuit> alpalp, refuting idiots on reddit is not an effective use of time... 20:10 < kanzure> you don't refute an idiot, you refute an idea 20:11 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, that's my point 20:12 < phantomcircuit> if you respond to every moron on reddit you will refute the same idea slightly restated 1000 times 20:12 < instagibbs> ok read the thread: there are no ideas there. Complete waste of time. 20:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:16 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:17 < moa> looks like there's full-blown sideshow storm incoming that will distract reddit from anything technical for quite a while 20:20 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtag@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:20 < gmaxwell> see, hostfat commented too; as I said, it's not just this adrian-x guy. 20:21 < coinoperated_tv> @moa storms keep the sails full, at least 20:21 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I dunno; I think if I convinced one person in that group that bitcoin doesn't and can't work the way that think, it'll likely flip the rest. 20:21 < gmaxwell> They're technically highly ignorant, but their wishes for the bitcoin system aren't so different from mine. It makes me sad that they consider me personally an enemy. 20:22 < coinoperated_tv> @gmaxwell +1 bashing reddit is missing the point. markets for ideas spring up in the strangest places 20:24 < sipa> e0: it is likely related to op_codeseparator abd the ability to delegate signing to someone else originally 20:25 < gmaxwell> oops I guess I didn't answer that. Sorry. I intended to give the same answer and got lost looking for a citation. 20:25 < kanzure> not sure what to say about "It is only in the situation where you have 51% of the hash that you could statistically orphan other miners blocks" 20:26 < kanzure> other than "Any miner can mine on whatever chaintip they want".. 20:26 < kanzure> but not sure why the person mentioned it 20:26 < gmaxwell> e0: we believe bitcoin script was orignally intended to allow you to be able to sign over any coin to a new public key, by having a seperator and the new key, and a signature. I don't think we're sure if it ever actually worked; and it certantly doesn't work now due to the seperation of execution. 20:28 -!- el33th4x0r [68e5aa14@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.229.170.20] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 20:28 -!- ebfull [~sean@73.34.119.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28 -!- el33th4x0r [68e5aa14@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.229.170.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:32 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:34 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:37 -!- ebfull [~sean@73.34.119.0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:39 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:43 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:45 -!- p15 [~p15@20.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:46 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znhkgnxspebohoix] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:46 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 20:49 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:50 -!- el33th4x0r [68e5aa14@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.229.170.20] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 20:51 -!- GAit1 [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51 -!- el33th4x0r [68e5aa14@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.229.170.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:53 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+o gmaxwell] by ChanServ 20:53 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [-q $j:#bitcoin] by gmaxwell 20:54 < el33th4x0r> test 20:54 -!- NewLiberty [~Joseph@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:56 < el33th4x0r> thanks @gmaxwell, looks like it worked. 20:56 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:56 < sipa> gmaxwell: are we sure it does not work anymore? 20:57 < el33th4x0r> kanzure: the people in that discussion about 51% attacks seem not to have heard of selfish mining or 34% attacks. 20:59 <@gmaxwell> el33th4x0r: every time I even mention "selfish mining" (even just citing the paper as a well constructed proof point around propagation effecting mining fairness.) I get attacked that "selfish mining was disproven" 20:59 <@gmaxwell> el33th4x0r: it might be interesting to you that an altcoin miner recently posted on reddit that they tried selfish mining but couldn't make it work-- but it was purely due to a lack of software engineering ability, they couldn't get their node to switch to their own block after accepting a block from the network. 21:01 < kanzure> yes also they like to tout stuff like "selfish mining wont happen because miners don't shit where they eat".. haha. 21:01 <@gmaxwell> kanzure: I thought it was nice that the altcoin multipool guy explained in detail their attempt; good counter-evidence to that. 21:01 < sipa> kanzure: which is true, currently 21:01 < sipa> for bitcoin miners 21:02 -!- GAit [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:02 < kanzure> sipa: "I feel like someone might say something like, "of course it exists, it's just honest miners and trusting miners to not misbehave and shit where they eat". So, I would like to reply ahead of time and point out that the whole point of Bitcoin is to minimize the amount of necessary trust. Not that justified trust is a bad thing, but trust makes systems brittle, opaque, and costly to operate. Trust failures result in systemic ... 21:03 < kanzure> ... collapses, trust curation creates inequality and monopoly lock-in, and naturally arising trust choke-points can be abused to deny access to due process. Through the use of cryptographic proof and decentralized networks Bitcoin minimizes and replaces these trust costs." 21:03 < el33th4x0r> gmaxwell: yes, the unwashed masses do say incorrect things like that. we do have to educate them about the 34% boundary. 21:03 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:04 < el33th4x0r> gmaxwell: and thanks for the altcoin miner story. do you have a pointer to this? I am not surprised that getting the miner code right is beyond the ability of most miners right now. 21:04 <@gmaxwell> el33th4x0r: it's hard to do that when they reject the premise of strategic behavior flat out; and even reject non-strategic but just natural unfairness created due to latency. 21:05 < kanzure> it is my understanding that most miners do not have engineers hanging around to edit bitcoin software 21:06 < el33th4x0r> gmaxwell: right, they have difficulty accepting that someone might want to make money at the expense of the common good. 21:06 <@gmaxwell> el33th4x0r: one sec. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3vhn88/businesses_need_certainty_of_excess_capacity/cxogmd5 and the comment two down. 21:07 < el33th4x0r> gmaxwell: thanks! will look. 21:07 < sipa> kanzure: of course, i've tried to explain that too; the fact that people currently are uninterested in strategic behaviour is not a reason to not protect against it 21:08 < sipa> kanzure: but i do believe it is true that today this will not happen in bitcoin 21:08 < kanzure> because regulators are vacationing too hard? :) 21:08 < sipa> unfairness due to latency is a different matter 21:09 < el33th4x0r> sipa: completely agree. "the fact that people currently are uninterested in strategic behaviour is not a reason to not protect against it" 21:10 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:12 -!- GAit [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12 < midnightmagic> kiwiirc is now no longer mass-banned in #bitcoin: el33th4x0r consider using a native IRC client instead of kiwiirc. :-) 21:12 < el33th4x0r> for the record, we do have an implementation of a selfish mining pool coordinator. we would have to think about whether or not we want to make it available -- we have not yet made it available to anyone other than our own group. feel free to direct people our way if they are interested. 21:12 -!- GAit [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:13 <@gmaxwell> el33th4x0r: the preciousblock rpc pull request for bitcoin core would have solved that person's implementation difficulties. 21:14 < el33th4x0r> midnightmagic: thank you! just curious, what was the issue with kiwiirc? it's pretty convenient for people like me prefer a browser. 21:15 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:15 -!- berndj [~berndj@196-210-13-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:15 < midnightmagic> some people don't think that at all: the market knows about selfish mining, and if it occurs, the price will reflect the resulting lack of confidence in effective vs. real hashrate. and please reconsider referring to the Other as unwashed masses. it destroys useful interaction with people who identify more with normal people as a philosophical choice 21:17 < midnightmagic> el33th4x0r: It was a foul-mouthed floodspammer; freenode doesn't extend CIDR masks to the kiwiirc, so they can effectively use the same IP address twice to flood the channel 21:17 <@gmaxwell> midnightmagic: well we can see the non-effect on price of bad behavior by large miners in the form of the finney attacks on betcoin dice. 21:18 <@gmaxwell> ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=321630.0 ) 21:18 <@gmaxwell> response to that was a huge shrug. 21:18 < el33th4x0r> the price will simply reflect the equilibrium of the supply-demand curve, so I don't believe that the presence of a selfish miner will affect the price much at all. 21:19 < el33th4x0r> as @gmaxwell points out, finney attacks, even GHash crossing the 51% boundary had a negligible effect on price 21:19 <@gmaxwell> well, in particular it's easy to excuse these attacks as "we know they existed, not news"; which the comments on that thread reflect. 21:20 < el33th4x0r> as for "unwashed masses," point well taken. it was a reference to people who deny science to pump up an investment, but you're right, it can be offputting. 21:20 -!- taek42- [~david@202.83.241.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:20 <@gmaxwell> Even "the victim was stupid" (while meanwhile the vulnerable same behavior is used by lots of parties every day) 21:20 -!- Graet [~Graet@unaffiliated/graet] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:20 < midnightmagic> that was done earlier by other pools and was well-publicized: actual thefts to 0conf services that depend on the seeming randomness of txid could be assumed to have already been priced into the end-user/market price. in other words, IMO, it was not new information for speculators who themselves knew their coins were as safe as they thought they were. 21:21 < coinoperated_tv> what matters about the masses is not their hygeine habits, but their purchasing power 21:21 -!- kelly [c037362a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.55.54.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21 <@gmaxwell> midnightmagic: well seemingly not because it bankrupted them. :) 21:23 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:24 -!- joecool [~joecool@no-sources/joecool] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:25 < midnightmagic> bankrupted the 0conf-relying, human brain-hacking cognitive deficit-relying gambling service? :-) the market itself is another divorced entity entirely, in my view, even divorced from the vehicles which express it (being the exchanges). satoshidice adapted to the finney attacks and didn't go bankrupt; and the existence and risk of the attacks IMO was well-known and priced into the markets, m 21:25 < midnightmagic> uch the way the game of chicken prior to the supply halving seems to kick off ~ six months prior to the actual event 21:25 < midnightmagic> el33th4x0r: fwiw, I agree with your assessments (again, big surprise) 21:26 < kanzure> haha quoting martin fowler, http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011907.html 21:28 -!- kelly [86868b46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.134.139.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:29 -!- TBI [~TBI@20.84-48-195.nextgentel.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:30 -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:31 -!- TBI_ [~TBI@20.84-48-195.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36 < kanzure> gmaxwell: for a reply to "I'm not sure about this result, maybe it isn't so hard to make a simple simulation." what about showing the poisson process section of the whitepaper? would that be sufficient. 21:37 -!- zookolaptop [~user@109.177.76.219.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:39 -!- kmels [~kmels@120.62.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:40 -!- kmels [~kmels@120.62.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45 -!- zookolaptop [~user@109.177.76.219.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:46 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:54 -!- GAit [~GAit@202.83.241.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@202.171.211.253] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:55 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@202.171.211.253] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@142-254-26-9.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:58 -!- memymo [~textual@c-24-4-69-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:01 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05 -!- memymo [~textual@c-24-4-69-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:07 -!- memymo [~textual@c-24-4-69-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:07 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@c-98-212-187-224.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:07 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@c-98-212-187-224.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:07 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@unaffiliated/tiraspol] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:08 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@142-254-26-9.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08 -!- Graet [~Graet@unaffiliated/graet] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:08 -!- memymo [~textual@c-24-4-69-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@142-254-26-9.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:09 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:10 -!- memymo [~textual@c-24-4-69-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:12 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 22:14 -!- memymo [~textual@c-24-4-69-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15 -!- zookolaptop [~user@223.197.144.64] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:18 < fluffypony> [04:33:16] nevermind, it was way better without any context <- quite, I thought you were communicating with the miners on Mars 22:20 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-143-143.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:21 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@59-100-109-145.cust.static-ipl.aapt.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:24 -!- nivah [~linker@115.79.55.177] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:25 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@202.83.241.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:27 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["Leaving"] 22:28 -!- el33th4x0r [68e5aa14@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.229.170.20] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - 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