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[~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:9439:bb9e:a377:fe4f] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:18 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:9439:bb9e:a377:fe4f] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 03:28 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:e123:dd79:540e:d4c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:32 -!- ManfredMacx [~hyperion@78-0-221-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:55 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:00 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:02 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 04:02 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:08 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:14 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19 -!- Fincher [~Fincher@nat-minsk-pool-46-53-200-192.telecom.by] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["Leaving..."] 04:27 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:40 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@90.201.51.138] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:51 < fluffypony> lmatteis: do you really think he'd submit a paper for peer review? it'd get destroyed. 04:52 < fluffypony> (context: https://twitter.com/lmatteis/status/708976291601620993) 04:55 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:58 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:00 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:00 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:12 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:12 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 05:12 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:14 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:17 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:18 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@c-98-234-63-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:28 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@c-98-234-63-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:29 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:30 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 05:35 < instagibbs> fluffypony, that's a laugh because vitalik has personally admitted to me that he thinks 13 validators is "good enough" for decentralization 05:40 < proslogion> instagibbs: really? i thought it was "250 validators ought to be enough for everyone." 05:42 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:42 < lmatteis> fluffypony: :) 05:49 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:56 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:56 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:58 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@46-86-125.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:59 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:01 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:14 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:15 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 06:16 -!- ManfredMacx [~hyperion@78-0-221-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:33 < lmatteis> fluffypony: vitalik is a smart person. he might be a bit biased, but i'm sure his logic is not completely unfound 06:36 < fluffypony> lmatteis: the problem with "logic" is that it doesn't have much place in the design of cryptographically sound, adversarially-resistant systems 06:37 < fluffypony> attackers can completely circumvent "logically" sound schemes (see, for eg., preimage attacks) 06:37 < proslogion> basically he has a tendency to make his system infinitely more complicated, and in the process rekt a few other building blocks, just to solve a problem he feels interested... 06:41 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:42 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:42 < lmatteis> fluffypony: sure. he just needs to better formalize his security model 06:43 < lmatteis> as all systems are never 100% resistant to attacks 06:43 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:ece8:54d4:b4ed:6da6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43 < fluffypony> that's a double-edged sword, lmatteis 06:44 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:ece8:54d4:b4ed:6da6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:45 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:45 < lmatteis> all i'm saying is that data trumps everything 06:45 * lmatteis giggles at *trumps* 06:45 < fluffypony> well what's the point of formalising it? it's so that it can be peer reviewed 06:45 < lmatteis> indeed 06:46 < fluffypony> so therein lies the issue: he lacks the education to present in a way that it can be peer-reviewed 06:46 < fluffypony> so when he uses incorrect notation it means mathematicians and cryptographers scratch their heads for a few minutes trying to understand it, and then move on with something else 06:46 < lmatteis> yup 06:47 < lmatteis> i also think that academics might be too much on the other end of the sword - too much formalization and peer-review, and less on actually getting working software to people 06:48 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:48 < fluffypony> sure, that's why there's a balance of both in Bitcoin 06:57 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:59 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:02 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 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has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:26 -!- maaku is now known as Guest57207 09:34 -!- Guest57207 [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:35 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:35 -!- Greybits [~Greybits@unaffiliated/greybits] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:37 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@unaffiliated/wallet42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:45 -!- e0 [~e0@c-66-30-116-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:59 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:00 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:e123:dd79:540e:d4c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:04 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:07 < JackH> kanzure, what material and reference material do you have for payment hubs? and do you also collect whitepapers like for HORNET and Sphinx etc? 10:10 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/Sphinx:%20A%20compact%20and%20provably%20secure%20mix%20format.pdf 10:10 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/HORNET:%20High-speed%20onion%20routing%20at%20the%20network%20layer.pdf 10:10 < kanzure> http://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf 10:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/Reaching%20the%20ground%20with%20lightning%20-%20Rusty%20Russell.pdf 10:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/lightning-network-paper-DRAFT-0.5.pdf 10:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/impulse.pdf 10:11 < kanzure> https://bitcoinj.github.io/working-with-micropayments 10:11 < kanzure> https://21.co/learn/21-micropayments/ 10:12 -!- papersauce [~papersauc@unaffiliated/papersauce] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:12 < kanzure> other things available if necessary 10:13 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:e123:dd79:540e:d4c] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:14 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:16 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24 -!- [_smitty] [~chatzilla@97-90-24-187.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:98d8:6c56:82fb:6d95] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32 -!- phiche [~Adium@2.69.49.185.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:33 < JackH> any other proposals? I am looking more specifically for the communication protocols like HORNET and Sphinx 10:34 < JackH> but more, exotic if you would have it 10:34 -!- maaku_ is now known as maaku 10:34 < maaku> johnwhitton: the HORNET and Sphinx papers themselves are pretty good 10:36 -!- coinoperated_tv [~coinopera@c-73-163-103-87.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:40 -!- papersauce [~papersauc@unaffiliated/papersauce] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:47 < kanzure> exotic... well, pyncheon? 10:51 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkswwgmbvkrguuih] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:58 < JackH> hmm 11:00 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:04 -!- fkhan_ [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-dqigscwnapnhesmn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:10 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:14 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:15 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:19 -!- fkhan_ [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-gmvkzazsnynvcnty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbdxjlhpmfxabfhi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:27 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:34 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:36 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@host124-240-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:39 -!- Eris72 [~Eris72@38.95.109.67] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:41 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:42 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-229-199-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:45 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 11:48 -!- Greybits [~Greybits@unaffiliated/greybits] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrcfrawapcyslezx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:53 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:55 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE38221.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:04 -!- Eris72_ [~Eris72@38.95.109.67] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:06 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:06 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07 -!- Eris72 [~Eris72@38.95.109.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09 -!- Eris72_ is now known as Eris72 12:09 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:15 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:27 -!- adam3us_ is now known as adam3us 12:28 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@45.32.233.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:29 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@45.32.233.97] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:35 -!- phiche [~Adium@2.69.49.185.mobile.tre.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:01 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:06 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:06 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32 -!- Don_John [~Don@ip72-211-182-139.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:40 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-2-103-125-30.as13285.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41 -!- jl2012 [uid133844@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thisaoclvaislhwb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:42 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@p4FCCC674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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