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[~nonaTure@x55b3b989.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:22 -!- mkarrer [~mkarrer@224.red-83-50-56.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:42 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:53 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:54 -!- kmels [~kmels@93.166.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:56 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:00 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:16d:780a:2574:fcc8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:06 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE3A064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:06 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:07 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:11 -!- curious12 [~Sleepnbum@chello089173066038.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:11 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:14 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:17 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:12 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:20 -!- bitjedi [~QuaCryptI@unaffiliated/bitjedi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:22 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@46-82-40.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 < instagibbs> or like, bitcoin maybe 09:25 < instagibbs> if we're already assuming super fast execution and actually valid implementations/crypto, we probably don't need PoW 09:27 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:27 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 09:34 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 -!- amiller_ [~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:41 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:43 -!- Guest87203 [~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:45 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:45 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 09:47 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:48 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:51 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:53 < maaku> Taek: yeah if you had a compact proof of consensus rule validity, you wouldn't need sidechains. Or bitcoin. 09:54 < maaku> the sidchains assumption is essentially SPV 09:54 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:56 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:08 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:17 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:24 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30 -!- _rht [uid86914@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ecrrfrojzerzlxwn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:46 < Taek> instagibbs, maaku: I don't think you could escape the work requirement. You would still need some way to pick between two different valid histories 10:47 < Taek> but you wouldn't need sidechains anymore 10:47 < Taek> I mean, we might also find that these things are achievable for very simplified consensus rules 10:48 < Taek> for example, we can do certain operations, but those don't include cryptographic signatures 10:48 < Taek> in which case sidechains would still be useful for the more complicated operations that you aren't able to create compact proofs for 10:52 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54 -!- slackircbridge [~slackircb@45.55.41.36] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:58 < maaku> Taek: you won't need bitcoin. If you can have a compact proof of validity of an elided history, there's no reason to have a public ledger at all 10:58 < maaku> There's much cooler stuff you could do 10:59 < Taek> sure, the ledger doesn't need to be public 10:59 < Taek> but I think you still need POW to choose between multiple valid histories 11:00 < Taek> well, you also need some way of knowing that the history being presented to you is the one with the most pow 11:00 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:01 < Taek> or rather, the compact proof for the history, since the history itself is not being revealed 11:07 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:07 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 11:07 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:08 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:13 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:14 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@ip68-97-35-223.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:21 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:26 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:27 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:36 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:37 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:37 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:49 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:00 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:05 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06 -!- roasbeef_ is now known as roasbeef 12:14 < GreenIsMyPepper> Taek: agree 100% with your earlier comment that the primary part which is the most difficult is proving state cocisely without sharing all the data. Ignoring ordering/PoW/etcetcetc, I wonder whether it's sufficient to have many thousands of entities share all state data be conclusively understood as accessible (in other words, how many people are needed to be able to be confident of "infor 12:14 < GreenIsMyPepper> mation wants to be free" when the time comes) 12:15 < GreenIsMyPepper> ... i am talking about a "sidechains" or "sidechains-like" construction in thise case 12:17 < GreenIsMyPepper> if you can presume that as true, you can punt a LOT of problems. it's messy in similar ways that PoW is messy, though 12:22 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@x55b3b989.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:23 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has quit [Client Quit] 12:23 < Taek> the problem gets worse if you assume that people are going to be actively trying to censor the information 12:24 < Taek> Bitcoin is a good example of 'probably good enough', but I wonder how slim you can make a network before it becomes reasonably possible to censor critical data 12:24 < GreenIsMyPepper> yeah, i'd be interested in the order-of-magnitude ballpark for the number which is effectively uncensorable 12:24 < GreenIsMyPepper> (assuming i.i.d. of participants ;) 12:25 < GreenIsMyPepper> i feel like if that's sufficiently solved, everything else is EZPZ 12:25 < GreenIsMyPepper> hm. ezpz should've been in quotes 12:26 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:27 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:28 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29 -!- molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:32 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:35 -!- moli 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has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:12 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:13 -!- mrkent_ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:14 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16 -!- mrkent__ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:26 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26 -!- phiche [~Adium@c-39fae555.017-265-73746f1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32 -!- phiche [~Adium@c-39fae555.017-265-73746f1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:33 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.56.9.81] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:50 -!- zmachine [~zmachine@98.119.10.117] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:59 -!- zmachine [~zmachine@98.119.10.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00 -!- zmachine [~zmachine@98.119.10.117] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:02 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2_ [~user@172.56.7.172] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:02 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.56.9.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2_ is now known as Jeremy_Rand_2 15:19 -!- Guest87203 [~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20 -!- meZee [SwedFTP@unaffiliated/swedftp] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:22 -!- roman___ [~quassel@90.116.236.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24 < adam3us> the c,s encoding variant of schnorr https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511074.msg5727641#msg5727641 that looks like R=kG, [c=H(R,m), s=k+cd], Q=dG, verify: c=?H(sG-cQ,m) (which works because kG=sG-cQ) is in part interesting because schnorr claims that you can safely truncate c so you get eg a 48byte instead of 64byte raw signature. 15:27 < adam3us> however that claim is based on some dodgy assumptions (eg that the signer is trusted to not try to construct collisions) so that is actually relatively insecure, if you do that the signer with effort 2^64 (which is TMTOable) can create one sig c,s that is valid signature for two different messages m and m'. that might be exploitable in a bitcoin setting. 15:28 -!- Guest53522 [~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:29 < adam3us> also the c,s version isnt batch verifiable 15:29 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:30 -!- meZee [SwedFTP@unaffiliated/swedftp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:33 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.56.7.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:33 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 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[~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:13 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:20 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:31 -!- arodrigu [~arodrigu@107.15.99.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:32 -!- SireWolf [~SireWolf@cpc76136-clif11-2-0-cust178.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:39 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:10 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmcbrlknkjuaorxl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:13 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmpnhqaakgixaksd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:17 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:29 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:30 < bsm117532> Taek, maaku, GreenIsMyPepper: A ZKP for consensus rules would go a long way. To that end I often wonder what is the hurdle in having hashes and signature verification as ZKP primitives. Current ZKP's (Garbled Circuts, Snarks) implement hash functions in an incredibly inefficient way, and that is the source of their slowness... 18:42 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.56.15.240] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:43 -!- Krellan [~krellan@50.242.94.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44 < kanzure> er, isn't the slowness also a consequence of a cpu that runs at essentially 1 op/sec? (i don't know what the actual rate is. but it's slow.) 18:45 < bsm117532> Turning logic gates into EC encryptions is a slowdown by a factor of roughly 10,000-100,000...yes. 18:45 -!- aquentson1 [~aquentson@unaffiliated/aquentson] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:47 -!- aquentson [~aquentson@unaffiliated/aquentson] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48 < bsm117532> Also simulating logic gates on a general purpose CPU is another giant slowdown, even without the encryption. 18:49 < kanzure> bsm117532: did you watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4jzA6ts2j4 ? 18:50 < kanzure> bsm117532: i typed up the words here http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/simons-institute/a-wishlist-for-verifiable-computation/ 18:50 < bsm117532> Will read. I hate videos... :-/ 18:50 -!- MaxSan_1 [~one@46.19.137.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51 < bsm117532> Ooooh good link! 18:51 < bsm117532> And he's at NYU, I might have to go pester him... 18:52 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54 < bsm117532> From the perspective of sharding, at least, I see a way out: different shards append UTXO set commitment proofs to a transaction, and it gets passed around until it has a full set of proofs. Then it can be committed and all the shards it modifies can validate its inputs. 18:55 < bsm117532> Of course that's only one transaction. Doesn't help SPV wallets know which chain is better. 18:56 -!- shangzhou [uid156782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdcphlsduhkauquu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:58 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 18:58 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:03 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nnjndsuodjqjdvmm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:05 < bsm117532> kanzure: good talk, didn't have the info I was looking for. I still hope for further advances. I'd love to hear a way to make e.g. hashing a ZKP primitive. 19:05 * bsm117532 pushes on his braid paper to finish itself... 19:06 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.56.15.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:07 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-122-14-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09 < bsm117532> amiller: Do you have any online talks about honey badger yet, or are you giving any soon that I might attend (NE USA)? 19:10 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10 < bsm117532> We'd love to invite you to talk about it in NYC. 19:15 < bsm117532> Ok I'm totally trying to get out of doing a careful read of your paper so I can cite you properly. But the invitation is open nonetheless ;-) 19:27 -!- mrkent_ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has quit [] 19:27 -!- _rht [uid86914@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kmmmufmvniljzzwp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:44 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 19:45 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:48 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkmgvyzyehnojeel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:48 -!- jtimon [~quassel@18.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:49 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:58 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 19:58 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@x55b3b8b4.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:58 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:03 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@ip68-97-35-223.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:08 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqunktsuiebqzrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvkkoajqiohqbkmb] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:13 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:22 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 20:23 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:24 < Taek> bsm117532: you still have a data withholding problem. It's not enough for me to be able to see a zkp that the state is a certain way, I need to be able to take that proof and build the next proof that I've changed the state to be a new way 20:24 < Taek> actually, when I put it like that, the challenge doesn't seem so insurmountable 20:24 < Taek> you have to make sure that the output of the zkp gives you enough to build off of 20:31 -!- infinite [~infinite@8.27.213.91] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:32 -!- infinite_ [~infinite@8.27.213.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:36 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-65-202-91.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:36 -!- roconnor_ [~roconnor@host-45-58-250-47.dyn.295.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:41 -!- jps [~Jud@cpe-74-65-202-91.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@x55b3b8b4.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:48 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:01 -!- xsdfdfsa [~x@unaffiliated/sdfgsdfg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:02 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:08 -!- shangzhou [uid156782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdcphlsduhkauquu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:10 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@45.32.233.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:11 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 21:11 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:12 -!- isis [~isis@149.154.159.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:17 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@45.32.233.97] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:19 -!- isis [~isis@abulafia.patternsinthevoid.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:21 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:28 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:44 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 21:44 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:45 -!- bitjedi_ [~QuaCryptI@108.61.68.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:45 -!- bitjedi_ [~QuaCryptI@108.61.68.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:47 -!- bitjedi [~QuaCryptI@unaffiliated/bitjedi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12 -!- gigq_ [~gigq@2602:302:d14c:51a0:7df9:c2f1:cf2:9c25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14 -!- gigq [~gigq@2602:302:d14c:51a0:64af:8a8e:1c15:30b2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:23 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:23 < molz> Emcy, hi.. lol that bot banned a testnet address, but i did post it on a testnet site and they sent you some coin: http://tbtc.blockr.io/tx/info/85d6c6e5eb4ac2bc58aa2b4010b3b6b670c7f83e2b2e64444c50b2ca5809d72e 22:23 < Emcy> i got rekt 22:23 < Emcy> whats a testnet site 22:24 < molz> i meant testnet faucet: https://testnet.coinfaucet.eu/en/ 22:24 < Emcy> nice faucets still exist 22:25 < molz> yup 22:25 < Emcy> how do i get un b& 22:25 < molz> ask midnightmagic to unban you 22:25 < Emcy> bit harsh matching testnet addresses :/ 22:26 < Emcy> hm the balance is considered available after 1 confirmation 22:26 < Emcy> since when? 22:27 < molz> since forever? 22:27 < Emcy> it was 6 22:27 < molz> you can spend it after 1 confirm too 22:29 < molz> i just sent you 1 btc 22:30 < Emcy> 1 confirm was shown to be nearly as insecure as none 22:30 < molz> true 22:30 < Emcy> why are they respendable after 1 now 22:34 < molz> idk 22:35 < Emcy> rly weird 22:38 < Emcy> thanks for the coins so 22:38 < molz> np :) 22:38 < molz> you should test segwit if you want 22:39 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39 < molz> there's #segwit-dev channel 22:39 < molz> also, create CLTV tx's to see how cool they are lol 22:40 < Emcy> i have no earthly idea what segwit is 22:44 < Emcy> does bitcoin disallow sending coins back to origin address now 22:44 < Emcy> or does the UI completely steer you away from that 22:44 < molz> it doesn't disallow 22:45 < molz> but we're advised not to reuse addresses 22:45 < molz> but for testnet who cares 22:46 -!- mrkent_ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:47 -!- Aranjedeath [~Aranjedea@unaffiliated/aranjedeath] has quit [Quit: Three sheets to the wind] 22:48 < Emcy> the ui completely doesnt show an "origin" address for coins 22:48 < Emcy> i think it used to 22:55 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 22:55 < gwillen> Emcy: the Core UI never showed 'from' addresses for coins, because that's not really a coherent notion 22:56 < gwillen> if you look at the UTXOs that fed into the transaction creating a particular UTXO in your wallet, there could be more than one, and they needn't have corresponding addresses at all, they could be complex scripts 22:57 < Emcy> huh i remember getting people to stop sending coins back to addresses they came from being a big deal once 22:58 < Emcy> maybe that was some pool or web wallet thing doing that tho cant remember 22:58 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:59 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00 < Emcy> does -gen still work 23:00 < Emcy> doesnt seem to be doing anything 23:01 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:01 < Emcy> but its still listed as an option 23:01 < gwillen> is that the flag to do cpu-mining? 23:01 < gwillen> that was removed ages ago I think 23:01 < gwillen> and yeah core never displayed 'from' addresses but I know blockchain.info did, maybe still does 23:01 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01 < Emcy> hm it still exists in the cmd line options section 23:03 < molz> you can do: setgenerate true on the debug console but i doubt you can mine any coin 23:04 < Emcy> on testnet? 23:05 < molz> yea 23:07 < molz> "difficulty": 2341243.666283378, (on testnet, impossible to cpu mine) 23:08 < Emcy> doesnt do anything anyway 23:10 < molz> i think some mining companies put their old asics on testnet 23:11 < Emcy> are asics mature yet 23:11 < molz> i have no clue 23:11 < Emcy> the asic market was doomed to be a funhouse until process nodes approached the state of the art 23:17 < Emcy> libsekp256k1 is used for both signing and validation now right 23:17 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@ool-4a59b2e2.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:17 < molz> oh now testnet difficulty is reset to 1, i guess you can mine then :) 23:17 < Emcy> seemed an assload faster than i remember to sync 23:17 < molz> yes i think so 23:17 < molz> openssl is gone 23:17 < Emcy> yay 23:18 < Emcy> shame the cpu market is stagnant as a bog 23:19 < Emcy> maybe amds new thing will kick the standard up to 8 cores finally 23:23 < Emcy> molz did you send that 1 testcoin with no fee 23:24 < molz> oh.. yes i did.. lol.. 23:24 < molz> what happened.. i set zero fee to test earlier 23:25 < molz> to see if the coin would be stuck but on testnet it's not like mainnet 23:25 < Emcy> seems like it has missed a few blox 23:25 < molz> oh no 23:26 < molz> it's still unconfirmed 23:26 < molz> sorry i forgot to look at that before sending it 23:26 < molz> let me see if i can push it 23:26 < Emcy> how can u push it 23:27 < molz> you copy and paste the raw transaction here to push: http://tbtc.blockr.io/tx/push 23:28 < molz> weird earlier i sent a zero fee tx and it went fine 23:29 < Emcy> thats just reboradcasting 23:30 < Emcy> did they do the increasing the fee thing yet 23:30 < Emcy> stuck coins are a plague 23:33 < molz> ok forget that tx, i'm sending you another tx 23:34 < Emcy> different coins? 23:39 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:41 < molz> ya from a different wallet 23:42 < molz> we now have "abandontransaction" but it doesn't work well, maybe in the next version it will 23:42 -!- mrkent_ [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has quit [] 23:43 < waxwing> guys, any reason you're not having this discussion in #bitcoin? not the right place here 23:43 < molz> sorry he's banned from there but i'm done 23:44 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:44 < Emcy> i got to bounce anyway 23:45 < molz> there's gotta be another bitcoin channel for our normal discussions like this without any ops 23:46 < waxwing> molz: ##bitcoin 23:46 < molz> no thanks, waxwing that channel is for scums 23:46 < waxwing> oh, well it has ops. other than that why not PM?! 23:46 < molz> because there're things i might not know and someone else can help us? 23:48 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzszmypelosumhsf] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:56 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:56 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Wed Apr 20 00:00:52 2016