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02:13 < fluffypony> https://bitslog.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/uncle-mining-an-ethereum-consensus-protocol-flaw/
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13:46 < instagibbs> bsm1175321, have you read the DECOR+ paper
13:46 < instagibbs> sounds very slightly braidish, and was wondering if you could tldr it
13:47 < instagibbs> Sergio is claiming it's much more resistant to selfish mining, might warrant a look
13:49 < katu> instagibbs: vitalik had a lot of blabbing about it before i think
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13:53 < instagibbs> katu, but he apparently didn't use it, and instead used something more broken?
13:53 < instagibbs> (according to Sergio)
13:54 < katu> personally i think its useless complexity which adds nothing of value. the whole notion that orphan hashrate is somehow "wasted" is ludicruous.
13:55 < katu> top hashrate nodes are merely incentivized to exchange blocks fast. as long they have all equal chance in visibility, orphans are simply invisible loss.
13:55 < katu> aka orphans penalize your shitty connectivity, so better fix that.
13:55 < katu> (invisible, as in, spreads out equally)
13:56 < belcher> wouldnt that mean all the miners end up physically close to each other ?
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13:57 < katu> belcher: even better, they can enforce latencies in tit-for-tat fashion. so you'd get a cloud where everyone has 50ms equal with each another.
13:57 < katu> remember oldschool dota? it worked like this.
13:58 < belcher> what does that mean? enforcing latencies
13:58 < belcher> why do miners do that
14:00 < katu> belcher: if they want fairness, they should run consensus to establish equal grounds.
14:00 < katu> this is all assuming very low block times which would call for much more structured, not merely ad-hoc, network topology
14:01 < katu> in broad sense, it would separate the problem into different domain, with no need to actually polute the block chain with it
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14:17 < instagibbs> katu, i don't "care" about orphans, but I care about "unfair" mining strategies
14:18 < instagibbs> fast block times don't interest me
14:18 < katu> its not like cheating, its geography
14:18 < belcher> increase block interval to 1h
14:18 < katu> what belcher said, simplest solution
14:18 < instagibbs> belcher, if mining hashrate didn't change much, that might be a good idea yeah
14:18 < instagibbs> problem is new hashrate will get deprecated while you still have high variance
14:18 < katu> but up to minute is manageable - with 100ms block propagation jitter theres almost no "unfairness"
14:18 < katu> that is, measurable one
14:19 < instagibbs> block propagation isn't nearly that good today
14:19 < katu> its good enough for bitcoin
14:19 < katu> but for rapid fire block intervals, really think about fixing network topology first
14:20 < katu> for example self-organize according to "heard it from there first" bias
14:22 < katu> and perhaps avoid transmitting whole blocks, you can simply blindly trust its hash and verify as the rest its txes arrive later (meanwhile you already mine on top of it).
14:22 < katu> if some peer abuses this window, simply drop em, that way they get isolated and their cheating gets counter productive
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 29 00:00:00 2016