--- Log opened Fri May 20 08:08:07 2016 08:08 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:08 -!- Topic for #bitcoin-wizards: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja 08:08 -!- Topic set by sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] [Fri Oct 30 00:53:34 2015] 08:08 [Users #bitcoin-wizards] 08:08 [@ChanServ ] [ fluffypony ] [ Myagui ] 08:08 [ [7] ] [ forrestv ] [ N0S4A2 ] 08:08 [ [ace] ] [ freekevin ] [ nabu ] 08:08 [ [d__d] ] [ g0lem ] [ nanotube ] 08:08 [ [Derek] ] [ gavinandresen ] [ nba_btchip ] 08:08 [ _whitelogger ] [ ggreer ] [ neha ] 08:08 [ a5m0 ] [ ghtdak ] [ nephyrin ] 08:08 [ a7b9d6e6 ] [ gigq ] [ nickler_ ] 08:08 [ aar- ] [ gnusha ] [ Nightwolf ] 08:08 [ AaronvanW ] [ go1111111 ] [ Noice ] 08:08 [ adam3us ] [ grassass ] [ nsh- ] 08:08 [ adams__ ] [ 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Leaving.] 17:16 -!- gulogulo [~gulogulo@unaffiliated/gulogulo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:18 -!- jtremback_ [sid67723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqexehwqveytabku] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20 -!- jtremback_ [sid67723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjeiuzedmmfnishx] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:21 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:24 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41 -!- nandubatchu [67e4dfe4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.228.223.228] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:45 < fluffypony> OT, but fascinating if you've been following the EmDrive snakeoil / not snakeoil thing: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601299/the-curious-link-between-the-fly-by-anomaly-and-the-impossible-emdrive-thruster/ 17:45 -!- psztorc [~psztorc@ool-4575fa8d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:46 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:04 < psztorc> Ahem, if there are any wizards here. I'm finishing up a tiny identity project, where users are associated with commitments to public keys. I wanted to add a finishing touch where you can also send money to these keys. I'm wondering if, to create a publicly associated Stealth Address, I need to add a whole field to the database (such that it is "ID", "H(PubKey)", "Stealth Address"), or if there's some cryptomagic way of deriving 18:04 < psztorc> the public Stealth Address from H(PubKey). 18:05 < psztorc> I read this ( https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004020.html ) but I did not find the details. 18:08 < psztorc> It would seem that the answer is no. https://wiki.unsystem.net/en/index.php/DarkWallet/Stealth#Dual-key_stealth 18:08 < psztorc> But, I guess, you never know. 18:11 < psztorc> I guess the H(PubKey) in the database could instead be H(Pubkey + StealthAddress). 18:12 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:14 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15 -!- NobleSir [sid151634@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydfqjdzxnwzievtv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:16 < waxwing> psztorc: i'm confused, you can publish a stealth receiver pubkey then anyone can derive a one-time stealth address for you by communicating a sender pubkey. if you publish the actual address, you've removed the point of it; why not just use an ordinary receiving address. 18:17 -!- nandubatchu [67e4dfe4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.228.223.228] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:17 < psztorc> waxwing: The marginal benefit is that there is no user error, and no jumbled mess of characters. Instead I just look up "waxwing" and then I can pay you, without anyone knowing. 18:18 < psztorc> The target user is someone who has no idea what a key is. 18:18 < psztorc> And no idea what PGP is. 18:19 < waxwing> there are schemes for that involving humanising addresses, i don't think you need the ECDH/stealth approach for that. the virtue of the stealth setup is that outside observers cannot derive the receiving address from the public information. 18:19 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:21 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:21 < psztorc> Yes, and? 18:23 -!- divbit [sid151634@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ddnqeavemjwnetel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:26 < waxwing> ok, another tack: you can publish a receiver pubkey. then, the sender can use stealth to send to it, but: either the sender must somehow communicate that pubkey to the receiver (it can be done in public, anonymity caveats notwithstanding), or the receiver must scan transactions to find the payment. 18:26 < waxwing> apologies if i'm missing your point. 18:26 < psztorc> Apology accepted. 18:27 < psztorc> I'm building a Namecoin-like thing. 18:27 < waxwing> humanised representations seems to be orthogonal 18:27 < psztorc> Correct. 18:28 < psztorc> The thing has people's identies , and some general "human stuff" WoT ish stuff. And it links that to something a computer can use. 18:28 < psztorc> Namely H(PubKey), because I assumed that the user could just send around their pubkey on command, or that Google would index them or whatever. 18:28 < psztorc> And I didn't want it taking up space. 18:28 < psztorc> But I thought, "Hey, for fun, what if you could *pay* these identities some Bitcoin." 18:29 < psztorc> So of course you could try to map the PubKey to a BTC address, but then people would know how much money was being sent to them! 18:29 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:30 < psztorc> That's no good. So I am wondering if you can "publish" the stealth address within the H(PubKey) as it was set up, and it seems the answer is "no". 18:30 < waxwing> if you want commitments you should probably be doing H(pubkey, nonce). (side point, maybe not relevant) 18:30 < psztorc> But then, moments ago, I realized that you could make the H() be H( pubkey + stealth ). 18:30 < waxwing> yes doing ecdh with only H(pubkey) doesn't work i think 18:30 < psztorc> The nonce of what? And why? 18:31 < waxwing> if you want a commitment (not saying you do) you should add a nonce to avoid ease of finding the data by search etc. 18:31 < psztorc> No, it's fine I want it all to be found anyway. 18:33 < psztorc> Anyway I think the H( pubkey, stealth address ) will work just fine. I wonder if there's anything else that should be in there? 18:33 < kvnn> /join #btcbase 18:33 < waxwing> but in what sense stealth address? stealth addresses are derived uniquely per sender? 18:33 < waxwing> if i get you, you're trying to create a scenario where the published data of the receiver allows anyone to send to it, but you don't want to publish the raw pubkey. 18:34 < psztorc> ? No no I merely want to link the stealth address to the human, in as few bytes as possible. 18:34 < psztorc> Probably I confused everyone here by not immediately realizing the simpler way to do it. 18:34 < waxwing> what do you mean by "the" stealth address? the address changes per sender. 18:35 < waxwing> well, per payment i should say 18:35 < kvnn> He's defined it as a "publicly associated Stealth Address" 18:35 < psztorc> I mean this thing: s9KND3vfXjs3YqfZp86Acce3bM7Mhuptwh6mjeDnThsDei9Z2ZZcU 18:35 < waxwing> how is that different from an ordinary address? the point of stealth is to prevent public association 18:36 < psztorc> My understanding is that you publish the s9KND3vfXjs3YqfZp86Acce3bM7Mhuptwh6mjeDnThsDei9Z2ZZcU which is safely reuseable. 18:37 < psztorc> I expected someone to do something like Cryptomagic(Pubkey) = Ingredients for Stealth Address = Stealth Address. That is why I asked. 18:37 < waxwing> you can do that by announcing the pubkey. then it's reusable for different payers. 18:37 < waxwing> hash of pubkey, i think ECDH cannot work that way. 18:38 < psztorc> : ) Ok, this is my fault that everyone is confused, but my problem is solved so, thank you IRC Universe. 18:38 < psztorc> The PubKey is, like, an RSA pubkey. 18:38 < psztorc> But the explanation might as well wait for the publication at this point. Haha 18:39 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:39 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:41 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 18:59 -!- gulogulo [~gulogulo@unaffiliated/gulogulo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:01 -!- NobleSir [sid151634@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydfqjdzxnwzievtv] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 19:45 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:49 -!- gulogulo [~gulogulo@unaffiliated/gulogulo] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54 -!- biergiel is now known as OgGodABier__ 19:55 -!- OgGodABier__ is now known as OhGodABier__ 19:57 -!- OhGodABier__ is now known as gielbier_ 20:00 -!- jinqui [369924af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.54.153.36.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:00 < jinqui> hey guys, does anyone know off hand what the byte-savings are for using sendmany vs sendtransaction when you have multiple pay to addresses? 20:00 -!- kvnn [~kvnn@cpe-108-185-240-254.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11 -!- MRL-Relay [~mrlrelay@primary.spagni.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:17 < Taek> #bitcoin-dev 20:24 < maaku> N-1 outputs 20:31 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42 -!- _whitelogger [whitelogge@fehu.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44 < jinqui> maaku, so the byte-savings is just one output? 20:44 -!- _whitelogger [whitelogge@fehu.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:44 -!- nickler_ [~nickler@185.12.46.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45 -!- nickler [~nickler@185.12.46.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:47 -!- Guest54377 [~starsocce@ns372404.ip-94-23-252.eu] has quit [Changing host] 20:47 -!- Guest54377 [~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:48 -!- Guest54377 is now known as starsoccer 20:58 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59 -!- Madars [~null@unaffiliated/madars] has quit [Quit: reboot] 21:05 -!- jinqui [369924af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.54.153.36.175] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:20 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:21 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:22 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 21:26 -!- Madars [~null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:33 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:39 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:44 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:46 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:02 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 22:14 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25 -!- psztorc [~psztorc@ool-4575fa8d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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