--- Log opened Sat Jul 02 00:00:46 2016 00:04 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:08 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:20 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:22 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:31 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbywdfzargdrjkrc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:51 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@176.92.237.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11 -!- ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@dslb-088-075-239-202.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:12 -!- ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@dslb-088-075-239-202.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:13 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13 -!- ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@dslb-088-075-239-202.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:30 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 01:35 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:49 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:49 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:51 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:56 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:59 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE38657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:08 -!- LeMiner2 [LeMiner@5ED1AFBF.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:10 -!- ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@dslb-088-075-239-202.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:10 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:10 -!- LeMiner2 is now known as LeMiner 02:13 -!- ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@dslb-088-075-239-202.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:18 -!- ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@dslb-088-075-239-202.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:24 -!- murch1 [~murch@p4FDB6055.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:25 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE38657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:29 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:38 -!- murch [~murch@p4FDB784D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:39 -!- murch1 [~murch@p4FDB6055.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@91.176.99.42] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:44 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@91.176.99.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:44 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@91.176.99.42] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@91.176.99.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:50 -!- murch [~murch@p4FDB784D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE3BCF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:22 -!- SyncYourDogmas [~James@unaffiliated/syncyourdogmas] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:28 < SyncYourDogmas> for working out the difference in currency rates, I'm guesing the best approach is use ford fulkerson for getting the maximum flows and model the markets as a graph. I'm not sure though on the difference between rates within an exchanfe 03:29 < SyncYourDogmas> an exchange and between, apart from higher edge weight. How do you signify the difference? or are they all just the same typpe of node regardless? 03:33 < SyncYourDogmas> kvnn if you check logs give me a shout when you see this too.. 03:44 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:49 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:52 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 04:02 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:22 -!- MaxSan_1 [~one@185.103.96.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31 -!- MaxSan_ [~one@h88-150-240-8.host.redstation.co.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:38 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:00 -!- murch1 [~murch@p4FE380F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:01 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:01 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE3BCF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 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ZZZzzz…] 10:14 -!- nephyrin` [~neph@nemu.pointysoftware.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:18 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 10:28 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@static-108-21-236-13.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:30 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@static-108-21-236-13.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:33 -!- metamarc [~cypher@unaffiliated/agorist000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:40 -!- oneeman [~oneeman@ip77-154-15-186.ct.co.cr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:41 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:47 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:22 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23 < bsm117532> With a braid (blocks naming multiple parents) it's possible that a miner could choose to name the same parent, over and over again, thereby increasing the *width* of the braid. Depending on the consensus rules, this could be a method of attack. 11:23 < bsm117532> Therefore it's necessary for miners to commit not only to their parents, but to the state of the braid, as they see it, at some time further back in the past. 11:25 < bsm117532> The braid measures the "size" of the network as a parameter (a) with units of time (think latency). Miners can't possibly know what's going on simultaneously on the other side of the Earth, and (a) parameterizes that. 11:27 < bsm117532> Therefore block headers should have commitments about not only immediate parents (which generally have a "received time" less than (a)) but also to a group of ancestors received recently, e,g, a < t < 6a. 11:28 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28 -!- gielbier [~giel____@095-096-096-058.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:29 < bsm117532> It's then necessary for double-spends occurring in delayed blocks, as seen by this two-stage time commitment, must be disfavored in favor of the chain with higher work. 11:33 < bsm117532> One can think of this two stage commit as defining an "arrow of time" onto the braid, which otherwise wouldn't have it. It would have a "length" and a "width" but because it's fundamentally two dimensional, (unlike a one-dimensional blockchain) a single commitment is not enough to define which way time is going, as seen by miners. 11:34 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:35 -!- mkarrer [~mkarrer@48.red-83-47-111.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 11:36 -!- mkarrer [~mkarrer@48.red-83-47-111.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:37 < bsm117532> Let's call these two sets "parents" and "grandparents". Normal blocks would appear first in the set of parents, and then in the set of grandparents, of future blocks. 11:38 -!- nephyrin [~neph@nemu.pointysoftware.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:38 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45 < bsm117532> A delayed or withheld block would name an old block as its parent, and have a child which names it and a recent block in the main braid, to tie the two together. One can easily determine that this block was delayed. 11:46 < bsm117532> Since future PoW must commit to both parents and grandparents, this gives us back the 51% rule that is lost in selfish mining with a blockchain. 11:46 < bsm117532> thoughts? 11:48 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:49 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:51 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:53 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01 -!- netsin [~jiggalato@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has 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[~w@c-68-58-151-30.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:55 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Sun Jul 03 00:00:46 2016