--- Log opened Sat Jul 23 00:00:05 2016 00:02 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fttfkniqmtrxtldm] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:12 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16 < lmatteis> guys, i've been out of the blockchain-circle for a while now. just wondering whether much has been done in the field of using this "history of who owns how many numbers" for something else other than currency 00:22 < kanzure> what 00:23 < kanzure> you want to force things to not have financial value? 00:24 < slackircbridge1> Nice try commie 00:28 < lmatteis> kanzure: well, perhaps certain systems can be built if these numbers aren't necessarily thought of as currency. 00:29 < lmatteis> for instance, imagine my 1 coin can be duplicated once. that's certainly not a fair (and logical) thing to do in a currency system 00:29 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29 < lmatteis> but perhaps it has 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[~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:15 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26 < pigeons> what certain systems? 06:34 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38 -!- MaxSan_ [~one@185.103.96.143] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:39 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:42 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@75.133.112.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:46 -!- YOU-JI [~youyouyou@FL1-125-195-44-154.chb.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:47 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:01 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:03 -!- koshii 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[~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:e43f:1962:2609:8aed] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:36 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["Closing Window"] 15:37 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:45 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:47 < kanzure> approximately how terrible would it be to use PKI schemes for verifying somewhat independent hardware re: whether someone is outsourcing their operations to some more centralized node? 15:55 -!- YOU-JI [~youyouyou@125.195.44.154] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:01 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:02 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12 -!- Guest15153 [~textual@c-68-57-75-42.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:17 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:21 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:26 < TD-Linux> kanzure, you're going to have to expand on that 16:27 < kanzure> recently i proposed an incomplete scheme for p2p payments where you use salted blockchain data and some sort of proof of bitcoin rule validation of blockchain history 16:28 < kanzure> i'm not sure if i can get that to work in a way that is mostly resistant to obvious kinds of outsourcing 16:28 < kanzure> oh sorry i mean CA system not PKI system 16:29 < kanzure> and the CA would be responsible for personally investigating whether it seems likely that there is no outsourcing occurring on certain premises 16:29 < kanzure> i understand that CA processes can be subverted, but surely that should only make them 10% relable or 1% reliable instead of completely unreliable 16:33 -!- antanst [~Thunderbi@adsl-186.46.190.29.tellas.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:40 < zooko> You could use hardware remote attestation maybe. 16:40 -!- antanst [~Thunderbi@adsl-186.46.190.29.tellas.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42 < kanzure> even with hardware attestation, you end up with the CA entity at the top, right? so how much do you discount its reported results? 16:45 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 16:50 < TD-Linux> well, in most systems the "CA" is the hardware manufacturer 16:51 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:52 < zooko> Right, I think this would reduce to a question of whether the hardware manufacturer was cheating or the hardware security system had been broken. 16:53 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56 < kanzure> yes the assumption should be that it is possible to compromise that, and that it is hard to know from an external perspective once it does occur, so you should probably just discount and cap their claims anyway (or anything you do as a result of their claims) 17:22 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cmlprgevbvqpsmzt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:29 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:34 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:e43f:1962:2609:8aed] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:39 -!- menix01 [menix01@79.114.113.171] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:39 < menix01> hello to all 17:42 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc7-sgyl35-2-0-cust123.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:47 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:e43f:1962:2609:8aed] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:55 -!- tromp_ 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quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:36 -!- xsdfdfsa [~x@unaffiliated/sdfgsdfg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:38 < AdrianG> it would boil down to extra costs for chip manufacturers 18:38 < AdrianG> blackberry did something similar with their chipsets, they were provisioned at the time of manufacturing and individually tracked 18:45 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-miblfngbsmxugcwq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:47 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:07 -!- xsdfdfsa [~x@unaffiliated/sdfgsdfg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09 -!- xsdfdfsa [~x@unaffiliated/sdfgsdfg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:09 -!- xsdfdfsa [~x@unaffiliated/sdfgsdfg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20 -!- YOU-JI [~youyouyou@125.195.44.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:28 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.24.213] 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