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joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:55 < instagibbs> Taek, fwiw I'm getting less convinced on the history-skipping stuff. But yes CT-OWAS is exciting by itself 06:04 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:08 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:08 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:19 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:6ab8:3c76:252a:a1ba:53d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:19 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:6ab8:3c76:252a:a1ba:53d4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:24 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:24 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:25 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:26 -!- oneeman [~oneeman@ip254-177-15-186.ct.co.cr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:33 -!- laurentmt1 [~Thunderbi@80.215.178.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:35 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35 -!- laurentmt1 is now known as laurentmt 06:39 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:42 -!- byteflame [~byteflame@70-89-65-45-little-rock-ar.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:42 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:47 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:48 -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:49 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:51 -!- arubi__ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:00 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:00 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:06 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:17 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:19 -!- arubi__ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:20 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@designnet.work.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 07:23 -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:28 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:51 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@38.121.165.30] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:54 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:58 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:01 -!- elandanthony [~elandanth@71-91-24-173.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:03 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kokrjmtruxobhryl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:06 -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:19 -!- elandanthony [~elandanth@71-91-24-173.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21 -!- zooko [~user@73.95.139.67] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 -!- Luke_Jr [~luke@91.205.144.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:32 < wizkid057> hmm 08:32 * Luke_Jr slaps wizkid057 around a bit with a large trout 08:32 * wizkid057 slaps Luke_Jr around a bit with a large trout 08:32 * Luke_Jr slaps wizkid057 around a bit with a large trout 08:33 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin! 08:34 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:38 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin! 08:39 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:48 -!- kurti [~kurti@unaffiliated/kurti] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:48 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@113.172.154.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:48 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:49 < wizkid057> no, I can explode them to 30x what they're worth. PM me instead. 08:49 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:49 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:49 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:49 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:49 < Luke_Jr> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL! I can explode your bit-coins and blow them into 3x what they are worth! 100% safe & vouched by the OPS! Pm me to begin. 08:49 < wizkid057> gmaxwell midnightmagic warren petertodd luke-jr phantomcircuit 08:49 < Luke_Jr> uuu expart cry baby!!! 08:49 < Luke_Jr> ba ba ba 08:50 < wizkid057> lol 08:50 < Luke_Jr> ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba 08:50 < Luke_Jr> ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba 08:50 < Luke_Jr> ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba 08:50 < Luke_Jr> ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba 08:52 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.178.35] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 08:54 -!- htyutut [~luke@91.205.144.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:55 < wizkid057> no more exploding? 08:56 < htyutut> ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba 08:56 < htyutut> ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba ba ba ba ha ba 08:56 -!- htyutut [~luke@91.205.144.62] has quit [Client Quit] 08:56 -!- Luke_Jr [~luke@91.205.144.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:56 -!- sfb [swant@freenode/staff/ikea] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:56 -!- elandanthony [~elandanth@71-91-24-173.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 -!- Sleepnbum [Sleepnbum@72.67.47.196] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:05 -!- c0rw1n- is now known as c0rw1n 09:09 -!- Sosumi [~Leon@bl10-113-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:11 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-104-172-191-85.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:12 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@82.201.93.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15 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[~mazznilla@unaffiliated/mazznilla] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:53 -!- Greybits [~Greybits@unaffiliated/greybits] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:00 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+b *!*@veltion1.static.otenet.gr$#bitcoin-bans] by wizkid057 11:01 -!- _r0ach_ [~r0ach@107-217-214-192.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:02 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@38.121.165.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02 -!- Guest69878 [~metric@199.127.226.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:04 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:09 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:12 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:15 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:15 -!- metric [~metric@199.127.226.246] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:15 -!- metric is now known as Guest71097 11:16 -!- arubi__ is now known as arubi 11:24 -!- oneeman [~oneeman@ip254-177-15-186.ct.co.cr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27 < maaku> So I made the surprising (to me) observation that one could have different proof of works for selecting transactions and for the most-work rule 11:28 < maaku> You do this by having an "inner" chain that contains transactions, and an "outer" chain that merge mines the inner chain. 11:28 < maaku> (This is the soft-fork merge mining scheme.) 11:28 < maaku> But you're free to choose different proof of work algorithms for the inner and outer chains. 11:29 < maaku> E.g. the inner scheme could be something relatively ASIC resistant, and the outer scheme be sha256. 11:29 -!- Mazz_ [~mazznilla@unaffiliated/mazznilla] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:29 < maaku> Whether that's an improvement or not I leave as an exercise.. 11:30 < bsm117532> How can they be merge-mined if they're different algos? Merge mining implies that a PoW for one can satisfy the PoW for the other... 11:30 < maaku> The fact that you could soft-fork in a merge mining scheme was also surprising to me, although it perhaps shouldn't have been (it's basically the same as etotheipi's scheme from 2012) 11:31 < maaku> bsm117532: I don't think that's a useful definition of merge mining. In fact it actually implies vulnerability to a specific attack. 11:31 < bsm117532> Ok then can you elaborate on your definition? ;-) 11:31 < maaku> Merge mining here means the outer block contains a commitment to the inner block history. 11:33 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@184.248.0.33] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:33 < bsm117532> Hmmm why not merge mine everything then? e.g. put commitments to the history of an altcoin (or multiple alt coins). It would enable cross-chain trading... 11:33 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+b *!*@38.121.165.30$#bitcoin-bans] by wizkid057 11:33 -!- bsm117532 was kicked from #bitcoin-wizards by wizkid057 [the blockchain doesnt want to be exploded... explode yourself.] 11:35 < arubi> I want to see that regex... 11:37 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:37 < maaku> bsm1175321: indeed, merge mine all the things 11:38 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39 -!- sipa [~pw@unaffiliated/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:42 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:43 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@184.248.0.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:46 < maaku> wizkid057: wtf? 11:52 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+o gmaxwell] by ChanServ 11:52 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [-b *!*@38.121.165.30$#bitcoin-bans] by gmaxwell 11:53 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53 <@gmaxwell> maaku: he has some script that is banning the spammer, but it appears his regexp needs work. 11:56 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:57 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@38.121.165.30] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:58 < bsm117532> Anyway, yes it's generally possible. I've been thinking about this for braids. Though the merge mining you describe is essentially an altcoin though, there's no common UTXO set. I'd want to checkpoint the inner braid txns back to the outer blocks. Though, the restrictions of the outer network rules may be onerous... :-/ 12:01 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:03 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:09 <@wizkid057> bsm117532: my apologies 12:09 <@wizkid057> seems I screwed up a modification to my script earlier 12:09 < bsm117532> wizkid057: no worries, thanks for taking care of the exploder 12:22 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:22 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:04 -!- zooko`` [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:e144:a18c:9f1:1fb] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:06 -!- zooko` [~user@73.95.139.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:21 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:25 -!- Oizopower [uid19103@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xamzjxcngpphnfqq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:32 -!- sfb [swant@freenode/staff/ikea] has left #bitcoin-wizards 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#bitcoin-wizards 20:20 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:24 -!- Guest19508 [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmlmrflropeoozsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:28 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29 -!- pigeons [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:29 -!- pigeons is now known as Guest79503 20:45 < FNinTak> @kanzure Yes, along with many others 20:45 < kanzure> hm okay. maybe something can be done to get a list of research questions then. 20:47 < FNinTak> as of OP I found a list of sorts here: https://bitcoincore.org/en/about/sponsorship/programme/ 20:48 < FNinTak> not sure how comprehensive that is though 20:48 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:49 < FNinTak> Also, an interesting concept came up today: miners running relay networks to pre-broadcast 20:49 < FNinTak> transactions they have included in the block they are working on 20:52 < FNinTak> This would allow for CMPCT blocks to still be used; subscribing to a PrefilledTransaction feed 20:54 <@gmaxwell> sounds like weakblocks, except in weakblocks access to publish in that feed is that feed is arbritrated by hashpower and they can publish transactions they intend to include but haven't included yet. 20:57 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:59 < FNinTak> In that case, the feed data wouldn't help with compact block usage then? 20:59 < FNinTak> though in the relay case there is no guarantee of the integrity of the pre-broadcast data 21:00 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00 < sipa> in weak blocks, miners broadcast blocks that almost satisfy the proof of work... let's say 1/10th of the required difficulty 21:00 < sipa> nodes on the network remember the last few weak blocks that they have seen 21:00 < sipa> and the transactions in those become available to compact block relay 21:01 <@gmaxwell> not just "in those" but in an additional commitment which is only used for the weak block. 21:01 <@gmaxwell> so you can advertise that you'd like to include a transaction but only actually try to include it once you believe it has been well propagated. 21:02 < sipa> then you can go a step further, and fully validate weak blocks ahead of time, and cache their validation result... if a later full block is found identical to a previously received weak block, nothing needs to be relayed at all 21:02 < sipa> apart from coinbase and nonce 21:02 <@gmaxwell> which is much more efficient than BIP152 compact blocks. 21:02 -!- bildramer1 [~bildramer@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:2cc8:1f94:a1ba:53d4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:03 < FNinTak> For any given block only 1 weak version needs to be broadcast though, correct? 21:03 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:03 < sipa> well if the weak block difficulty is 1/10th of the full block difficulty, you'll see on average 10 of them 21:03 <@gmaxwell> no weak version /needs/ to be broadcast. 21:03 < sipa> but they can reuse each other's transactions of course for relay 21:04 < FNinTak> What is the benefit of the following 9? wrt. improving compact block caching 21:05 < sipa> increasing the chance 21:05 <@gmaxwell> they continue to update the set of includable transactions, since they'd be sent differentially to prior blocks, (e.g. BIP152 or more efficient) they don't cost much of anything themselves. 21:05 < sipa> if the weak block difficulty was only 1/2 of the full block difficulty, there would be a high chance that no weak block at all would have been found 21:05 < sipa> in between two full blocks 21:06 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:6ab8:3c76:252a:a1ba:53d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06 < FNinTak> Mmm, ok i agree; can also use BIP152-like broadcast for the weak blocks themselves 21:07 < kanzure> https://people.xiph.org/~greg/weakblocks.txt 21:07 < kanzure> https://people.xiph.org/~greg/lowlatency.block.xfer.txt 21:07 < kanzure> http://popeller.io/index.php/2016/01/19/weak-blocks-the-good-and-the-bad/ 21:07 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m2wpf/bitcoindev_weak_block_thoughts/cvbre8i 21:07 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-12-02.log 21:07 <@gmaxwell> in any case considerations for them is different because they're not at all latency critical. meaning their transmission can heavily optimize for bandwidth efficiency. 21:07 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-11-09.log 21:07 < kanzure> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011158.html 21:08 <@gmaxwell> sipa: amusingly "weak blocks" doesn't need anything weak at all. 21:08 <@gmaxwell> Imagine instead, whenever you mine you include a list of transactions you'd like the network to include 3 blocks from now. The transactions you do include are the ones from the commitment from the block three ago. 21:09 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:09 <@gmaxwell> and you don't require that precommitment data to arrive with a block, instead it can arrive later. 21:09 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:09 <@gmaxwell> and it doesn't have to be validated... it just gives access to the communication channel to achieve reliable broadcast of transactions. 21:11 -!- bildramer1 [~bildramer@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:2cc8:1f94:a1ba:53d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:15 < FNinTak> If that were required it would allow for more censorship by miners 21:16 < FNinTak> though miners exhibit similar behavior in the wild already so that's unlikely 21:16 < Taek> Miners already have the final say in what gets onto the blockchain. Weak blocks give more opportunity for non-rogue miners to broadcast potential transactions 21:21 < FNinTak> Fair; the xiph write-up makes this clearer 21:25 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:26 < FNinTak> Also @maaku in that scheme is proof still done over blocks on inner chain or individual transactions? 21:29 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:31 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:6ab8:4a2:29d:a1ba:53d4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:49 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@2601:645:c001:263a:1531:b726:185b:ef38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:50 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:54 -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@2601:645:c001:263a:1531:b726:185b:ef38] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:05 -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-crdwzvrbzygllaqe] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:17 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:27 -!- bitcoin-wizards8 [73a60efa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.166.14.250] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:11 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@2-235-224-2.ip230.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] --- Log closed Sat Aug 06 00:00:18 2016