--- Log opened Wed Aug 10 00:00:21 2016
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01:03 < proslogion> hmmm, looks like the MW  r value can be made information theoretically secure before spending?
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01:21 < proslogion> meh, kinda pointless, if you break ECDLP you can just use a r for any amount you want to spend from any output
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03:02 < nsh> proslogion, there is benefit to making the blinding information-theoretically secure, but the security will still rest on DLP
03:02 < nsh> i would rather try to fix MW so we can recover the range-proof as secret data
03:03 < nsh> that's a wonderful feature of CT imho
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07:59 < kanzure> "Bootstrapping for HElib" http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/873.pdf
08:00 < kanzure> CVE-2016-5696 and "Off-path TCP exploits: Global rate limit considered dangerous" https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity16/sec16_paper_cao.pdf
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08:29 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Ns5wla9DY
08:29 < yoleaux> Pure Off-path TCP attack demo by using a side channel in Recent Linux Kernel - YouTube
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10:09 < cjd> is there anything going on at the moment regarding spam in the mempool ?
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10:11 <@gmaxwell> cjd: thats a really vague question.
10:12 <@gmaxwell> mempool is memory limited now, so no one cares about mempool spam anymore.
10:13 < cjd> ok, I'm just hearing a bunch of stuff from people using bitfinex that they can't make transactions happen based on the blockchain itself
10:13 < cjd> if you're not seeing anything anomalous then it's just people not putting enough fees...
10:13 <@gmaxwell> cjd: or they're rate limiting withdrawls?
10:14 < cjd> *basically they have transactions hitting the mempool but not getting mined
10:14 < cjd> both trying to withdraw and deposit
10:14 < cjd> But I trust you have alarm bells setup and if you don't see anything then there is nothing to see
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12:51 < kanzure> "Investigating the origins of RSA public keys" https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity16/technical-sessions/presentation/svenda
12:51 < kanzure> "Can bits of an RSA public key leak information about design and implementation choices such as the prime generation algorithm? We analysed over 60 million freshly generated key pairs from 22 open- and closedsource libraries and from 16 different smartcards, revealing significant leakage. The bias introduced by different choices is sufficiently large to classify a probable library or smartcard with high accuracy based only on the ...
12:51 < kanzure> ... values of public keys. Such a classification can be used to decrease the anonymity set of users of anonymous mailers or operators of linked Tor hidden services, to quickly detect keys from the same vulnerable library or to verify a claim of use of secure hardware by a remote party. The classification of the key origins of more than 10 million RSA-based IPv4 TLS keys and 1.4 million PGP keys also provides an independent estimation ...
12:51 < kanzure> ... of the libraries that are most commonly used to generate the keys found on the Internet."
12:53 < kanzure> oh... they are in austin this year.
12:53 < kanzure> ... right now... huh. i should head over.
12:54 < kanzure> anyone want to sponsor the ticket fee for me?
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12:59 < kanzure> for wordtypes
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13:03 < kanzure> "ZKBoo: Faster Zero-Knowledge for Boolean Circuits" https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity16/technical-sessions/presentation/giacomelli
13:03 < kanzure> "The Cut-and-Choose Game and Its Application to Cryptographic Protocols" https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity16/technical-sessions/presentation/zhu
13:09 < kanzure> would be good to capture most of these --> https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity16/technical-sessions
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13:16 < roasbeef> the list of accepted papers for CCS is up: https://www.sigsac.org/ccs/CCS2016/accepted-papers/, there're a few cryptocurrency related papers that were accepted
13:16 < roasbeef> one that jumps out (based solely off the title) is: "A Secure Sharding Protocol For Open Blockchains", though I can't find a draft of it anywhere atm
13:18 <@gmaxwell> https://github.com/Sobuno/ZKBoo
13:19 <@gmaxwell> lol academic code
13:20 <@gmaxwell> $ ./m
13:20 <@gmaxwell> Enter the string to be hashed (Max 55 characters): test
13:20 <@gmaxwell> String length: 4
13:20 <@gmaxwell> Iterations of SHA: 136
13:20 <@gmaxwell> *** buffer overflow detected ***: m terminated; report to <http://bugs.gentoo.org/>
13:21 <@gmaxwell> but ignoring the crashyness, they get major kudos for having a trivial to use demo.
13:21 <@gmaxwell> I've got it working.
13:22 < kanzure> should i head over? hard to decide.   looks like they do eventually publish videos.
13:22 < kanzure> but i'm not sure if they publish videos of all sessions.
13:23 < Alanius> they do record
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13:24 < kanzure> thanks. no need for me to go pester them, then...
13:25 < Alanius> yeah, last year's videos are all up
13:25 < kanzure> i saw about 15 videos but i see much more than 15 sessions listed
13:26 < Alanius> are we looking at the same webpage? I am looking at this: https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity15/technical-sessions
13:26 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbRoZ5Rrl5lfeRixThHzgGYj1wu80JOh3
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13:27 < kanzure> oh you're right. the videos are on each page.
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13:29 <@gmaxwell> This is a cute approach.
13:29 < kanzure> what, crashing?
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15:24 < nsh> as a black box construction it shouldn't matter the relationship between the two generators in an EC pederson commitment scheme, so long as DLP of one is not known with respect to the other, but i'm sure that there must exist mutually weak points
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15:25 < nsh> (as there are weak curves for various types of attack)
15:25 < nsh> *DL
15:27 < sipa> what are weak points?
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15:32 < nsh> unsure, i just have a feeling that any point cannot be equally secure as a second generator
15:32 < nsh> mathematics generally declines to be that boring
15:33 <@gmaxwell> all generators are equal in curves like secp256k1.
15:35 <@gmaxwell> Imagine if you have alternative generator Q where discrete log wrt Q is somehow easy.  Now you find the DL of G with respect to Q... then you can transfer problem of finding P wrt G by multiplying P by the ratio of the two generators to make it problem of finding the DL of some other point with respect to Q.
15:35 < nsh> oh, right
15:36 < sipa> gmaxwell: you mean "all points are generators" - any generator is by definition as good as any other generator, but there are curves which have points that are not generators
15:36 < nsh> hardness uniform throughout the group because it's multiplicatively constant
15:36 < nsh> +is
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15:42 < nsh> can we not use Schnorr authentication and godel numbering to do arbitrary expressions in zero knowledge?
15:45 < nsh> really you want to prove that you know something that matches an arbitrary expression, which is another thing to proving you can formulate an arbitrary expression
15:45 < sipa> godel numbering doesn't preserve the semantics of the language
15:45  * nsh nods
15:46 < nsh> doesn't necessarily. you can apply certain prescriptive numberings that preserve some properties
15:46 < sipa> feel free to try
15:47 < andytoshi> well mapping numbers to points by x → xG preserves addition. but not multiplication. you'd need to do both at once somehow
15:47 < andytoshi> and given that your group only has one operation..
15:47 < sipa> and any other operations the expression language has
15:47 < andytoshi> i think polynomial circuits are fully general, if you can add and multiply you can do small programs at least
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15:49 < proslogion> speak of that, anyone knows in general how difficult is the subgroup membership problem? like comparing to DLP?
15:50 < proslogion> say i have a random number, i want to find out if it has a discrete log with generator g
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15:51 < sipa> proslogion: testing whether it belongs to a subgroup of a given size (or divisor thereof) is easy
15:55 < proslogion> sipa: with a particular generator?
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15:55 < sipa> proslogion: not afaik
15:55 < sipa> or not in general at least
15:56 < sipa> if you know there is only one generator of a certain order it is easy :)
15:56 < proslogion> lol
15:57 < sipa> that's not unusual
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17:39 < nsh> gmaxwell, what's the actual logical form of the statement proved in the rangeproof implementation? something about a bunch of digits base 4 and a mantissa?
17:40 < sipa> it proves that the commitment equals some number times G plus a number in the range [0..2^32-1] multiplied by H, without revealing either
17:40 < sipa> the range is configurable
17:41 < nsh> yeah, but it actually proves a statement based around a deconstruction of the value in some weird way
17:42 < nsh> or maybe i misunderstood something
17:44 < sipa> yes, you pick some random points C0, C1, C2, ..., whose sum equals the commitment C
17:45 < sipa> for each of them you pick 2 bits of the value, so v0 + 4*v1 + 16*v2 + ... = value
17:45  * nsh nods
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17:46 < sipa> then you reveal C0 + v0*H, C1 + 4*v1*H, C2 + 16*v2+H, ...
17:46 < sipa> you call those C0', C1', C2', ...
17:47 < nsh> hmm
17:47 < sipa> then for C0', it is true that you know the DLP for either C0' (if v0==0), C0'-H (if v0==1), C0'-2H (if v0==2) or C0'-3H (if v0==3)
17:47 < sipa> (that DLP is just the DLP of C0)
17:47 < sipa> so you give a ring sig of the message with the 4 pubkeys (C0', C0'-H, C0'-2H, C0'-3H)
17:48  * nsh nods
17:48 < sipa> which reveals you know the DLP for either of those, but not which one
17:48 < sipa> then you do the same for C1', you know the DLP for either C1', C1'-4H, C1'-8H, C1'-12H
17:48 < sipa> etc
17:48 < nsh> right
17:49 < nsh> ty
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19:08 < Cloudflare> mryandao is not a proper bitcoin wizard
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21:58 < kanzure> http://manishearth.github.io/blog/2016/08/10/interactive-sudoku-zero-knowledge-proof/
21:58 < kanzure> ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12260018 )
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