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03:42 < proslogion> can you interactively prove the knowledge of a solution to a CNF-SAT problem in zero knowledge?
03:43 <@gmaxwell> you can prove _non_ interactively any NP statement in Zk.
03:43 <@gmaxwell> so yes.
03:43 < proslogion> gmaxwell: well the problem i have is the cost associated with NIZK
03:44 < proslogion> the prover needs to do tons more work is it?
03:45 <@gmaxwell> the mental MPC based scheme linked to a day or so ago has a pretty fast prover.
03:45 <@gmaxwell> e.g. proving a sha1 hash took a few milliseconds.
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03:47 < proslogion> right, but isn't the point of ZKCP that the prover sells solutions for an income?
03:48 <@gmaxwell> yes? and?
03:48 < proslogion> so ideally he should be able to perform the computations much faster than the verifier
03:48 <@gmaxwell> no no no
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03:48 <@gmaxwell> the work that the prover does at proof time is _NOT_ the coming up with the solution.
03:48 < proslogion> oh, so he should have some trap doors that he computes in advance?
03:48 <@gmaxwell> It is only proving that it has one (and that the encryption keys and whatnot agree)
03:49 <@gmaxwell> which means that the prover is only running the verification (and some wrapper logic.)
03:49 < proslogion> yeah, i think i get you
03:49 <@gmaxwell> by verification I mean code that the verifier would use to decide to accept the solution, if the task weren't being done in ZK.
03:50 <@gmaxwell> and in the case of zkcp since the buyer can bail out at any point (and not get the information); it is sutiable really mostly for information that the seller already has and could sell for little to no marginal cost.
03:50 <@gmaxwell> you wouldn't want to ZKCP for some task where you'd have to do a lot of work, because the buyer could walk without paying.
03:51 <@gmaxwell> (unless you thought you could get another buyer for the same data)
03:51 < proslogion> yeah, but otoh you could be a server and the buyer could be a pathetic mobile device
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10:06 < nsh> is the optimisation for finding a y coord in secp256k1 with pow(x^3+7,(p+1)/4) explained anywhere?
10:06 < nsh> cc waxwing
10:06 < nsh> --
10:06 < nsh> We use a known mathematical trick to find H y efficiently [11]:
10:07 < nsh> >>> H_y = pow(int(H_x*H_x*H_x + 7), int((btc.P+1)//4), int(btc.P))
10:07 < nsh> -- essayonct.pdf
10:07 < waxwing> nsh: not really one for me, but isn't that just a standard mathematical thing?
10:07 < waxwing> oh right. it's on wikipedia.
10:07 < nsh> raise to the power of the group order plus one divided by four instead of square rooting? not standard to me, but i'm incredibly uneducated
10:08 < nsh> in which article?
10:09 < waxwing> it's in the referred link [11]
10:10 < nsh> ty
10:10 < waxwing> cant remember where i read it, i think it was on bitcointalk or stackexchange, at least
10:11 <@gmaxwell> nsh: it's a well known result due to (IIRC lagrange) that if P is congruent to 3 mod 4 you can compute the sqrt as P+1//4.
10:11 < nsh> larange aye
10:11 < nsh> another due to legendre for n = 5 (mod 8)
10:11 < nsh> neato
10:12 <@gmaxwell> there is a similar technique for the modular inverse (fermats little theorem)
10:13 <@gmaxwell> nsh: there are more recent solutions for other primes too that are somewhat more complex to compute.
10:13 < nsh> cool
10:14 < nsh> this lifting stuff [[Hensel's lemma]] looks fun too
10:15 <@gmaxwell> it's common for curves to be chosen so that P is congruent to 3 mod 4 in order to get access to this 'fast' sqrt. (not that it's all that fast... :) )
10:17 < nsh> hrm
10:18 < nsh> oh, i scared myself there haha... misread https://btc.com/5e65f46475696d92f82b77003f13175a57b46ddd5d03ba16933fc64d278041c1 as someone having spent from 1GeNvL5h8AqFJ3o3TtdzYiJ27LVtLUN7Aa
10:18 < nsh> (which is H's address)
10:18 < waxwing> yeah i need to go back and double check that. there's more than 1 possibility and i might have got the wrong one. was a long time ago.
10:19 < waxwing> well there's at least 2 right, uncompressed etc.
10:20  * nsh nods
10:20 < nsh> if i ever break ECDLP i'll spent one satoshi+fees from that input just as a heads-up okay
10:20 < nsh> pinkie promise
10:20 < waxwing> heh. but, where did you get 1Ge.. ?
10:21 < nsh> no i miscopied
10:21 < nsh> 1D8eDztgv79J59V7UBBpNGnRE6hjstqKb5
10:21 < nsh> sorry
10:21 < waxwing> oh i see :)
10:21 < waxwing> uhh someone paid to that? interesting...
10:22 < waxwing> looks like they used joinmarket :)
10:23 < nsh> ritual burnt offering
10:23 < waxwing> phi/10 (or Phi/100)?
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10:24 < waxwing> i think i know who did that :)
10:24 < nsh> it's probably the final stage of cicada 2020
10:24 < nsh> :P
10:24 < waxwing> is that still going?
10:25 < nsh> nah, i think it dried up last year
10:25 < proslogion> what's this about
10:25 < nsh> probably recruited all the weirdos they need to save humanity from a lack of appreciation for william blake and haikus or whatever
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10:26 < nsh> .wik Cicada 3301
10:26 < yoleaux> "Cicada 3301 is a name given to an enigmatic organization that on six occasions has posted a set of complex puzzles and alternate reality games to recruit codebreakers from the public. The first internet puzzle started on January 4, 2012, and ran for approximately one month." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301
10:27 < proslogion> yeah but what does that have to do with that address
10:28 < waxwing> nothing, he's just saying such eccentricity is vaguely suggestive of that kind of thing
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10:29  * nsh smiles
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10:29 < nsh> i don't recall they ever touched on anything elliptic, but i didn't pay close attention
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10:31 < waxwing> huh, just yesterday, curious coincidence
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10:33 < waxwing> no, doh, it was last year sorry. how did i read that so wrong? /facepalm
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10:36 < nsh> dates are hard. #1country does them wrong as a matter of principle
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12:20 < waxwing> i couldn't help looking again, turns out i chose the wrong root :) compressed is 1CL6niRb19faMRnYSr4N135wp7YhP44mKd and uncompressed is 1Jp8T2cUdqfcq6P3wECKvcMJu27AByk2B
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12:21 < waxwing> how does sage's "lift_x" choose the square root? couldn't find docs
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17:31 < Cloudflare> y a des chan français sur freenode mryandao ?
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17:41 < mryandao> i dont speak french
17:43 < Cloudflare> mryandao: that's just plain rude
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17:57 < luke-jr> it's rude to not speak French?
18:00 < Cloudflare> luke-jr: I think I just had mryandao
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18:39 < e0> anyone know if the python implementation of coinshuffle++ has been published anywhere?
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18:40 < kanzure> e0: they did not write this one but here's a thing https://github.com/DanielKrawisz/Shufflepuff/commits/master
18:41 < kanzure> er this was probably before coinshuffle++
18:42 < kanzure> http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/code/coinshuffle_code.tar.gz
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19:07 < e0> I've been folllowing shufflepuff, it looks like they are making lots of progress. I asked on twitter and they said they weren't rolling the coinshuffle++ changes into shufflepuff, but maybe that has changed now.
19:09 < e0> Sadly the tar.gz is the old code.
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19:12 < e0> heres the tweet https://twitter.com/DanielKrawisz/status/743815075027312640
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 12 00:00:23 2016