--- Log opened Thu Sep 29 00:00:07 2016 00:31 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 00:33 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@n218250011174.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:33 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:34 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.216.181] has quit [Changing host] 00:34 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:37 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@n218250011174.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:41 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:57 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:58 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:02 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:19 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@mbp.dynamic.ucsd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34 -!- DigiByteDev_ [~JT2@185.29.164.149] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:34 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:34 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@101.78.224.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34 -!- DigiByteDev_ is now known as DigiByteDev 01:49 -!- DigiByteDev [~JT2@185.29.164.149] has quit [Quit: DigiByteDev] 01:53 -!- [ace]_ is now known as [ace] 01:59 -!- pigeons [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:59 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@2605:6000:1019:4099:952a:2337:a072:48f5] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:06 -!- pigeons [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:06 -!- pigeons is now known as Guest55943 02:19 < Taek> cjcj: it's not something you'd really want to softfork into the main chain because it eliminates features, some of which are currently depended on by the industry. 02:39 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:43 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:46 < Taek> If there was an attacker whose goal was to split the chain, how much hashrate + network superiority would they need to pull it off? 02:47 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 02:48 < Taek> The attacker would perform block witholding and then release it strategically such that 50% of the hashrate is mining on one block, 50% on the other 02:48 < luke-jr> Taek: eh, it doesn't have to 02:49 < Taek> are you suggesting something more like an attack at the p2p layer? 02:53 < Taek> hmm. It would be difficult because you can't really 'save up' hashrate to deploy on each half of the chain. You don't know which side of the chain will get the next block, and when they get it you haven't had enough time to reliably mine an opposing block anyway, even if you were mining on the right side. 02:53 < cjcj> Taek: The soft fork would force miners to validate the sidechain instead of having voluntary merge-mining. It shouldn't affect the main chain at all. Am I missing something? 02:54 < cjcj> Taek: Kind of how adam3us proposed extension blocks to increase tx throughput. 02:56 < luke-jr> cjcj: that'd make the sidechain part of the mainchain 03:01 < cjcj> luke-jr: yes, but only a commitment in the mainchain of the MW chain. 03:01 < luke-jr> cjcj: a commitment that all full nodes must verfiy 03:01 < luke-jr> and thus have the full "sidechain" 03:02 < cjcj> luke-jr: Yes, bad idea? 03:02 < luke-jr> cjcj: might as well just softfork it in 03:02 < luke-jr> ie stop pretending it's a sidechain 03:03 < cjcj> luke-jr: Don't know MW well enough, but it seems to be very different from how Bitcoin is structured today. How would such a soft fork look like? 03:03 < Taek> you'd still have to verify the full main chain, which means you're losing out on the scalability benefits. The privacy benefits are maybe maintained, but it the privacy benefits don't really seem to be that strong without adding additional complexity 03:04 < Taek> if you soft-fork in MW, either you drop features from the main chain, or you maintain two separate consensus sets (std utxo, MW) in which case you lose scaling benefits 03:05 < luke-jr> cjcj: I don't know MW well enough to try adapting it 03:05 < luke-jr> cjcj: I'd guess a single transaction with the MW stuff 03:09 < Taek> re: stalling consensus - seems like it'd be easier to do in DAGs, as you are able to 'save up' blocks on each side of the chain and release them as the opposing chain finds them. 03:33 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:34 -!- wumpus [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/wumpus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:35 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:42 -!- droark [~droark@172.56.5.76] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:15 -!- molz 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[~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:25 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p2003004D2B010000BCFE58B147BB9CE1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p2003004D2B010000AC9BCCA14258DFA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:36 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:36 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:37 < andytoshi> cjcj: what you're describing really is just an extension block, « sidechain » is just a buzzword 05:37 < andytoshi> and it's certainly possible in principle, though this is a lot of complexity 05:40 -!- jnewbery [~jnewbery@rrcs-67-251-193-154.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:44 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:50 -!- droark [~droark@172.56.5.76] has quit [Quit: ZZZzzz…] 06:04 -!- NewLiberty 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