--- Log opened Sun Oct 09 00:00:16 2016
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00:06 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> that same reasoning applies today doesn't it
00:06 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> hosted wallets can also act like mixers
00:06 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> just by pooling all the accounts and then "forgetting" the original correspondences
00:08 < maaku> cjd: unfortunately it's not obvious how to merge already-merged transactions that share inputs
00:08 < maaku> (please prove me wrong)
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00:09 < instagibbs_> amiller: no, it does not. It required interactivity, which, if nothing else, is a huge UX headache.
00:09 < maaku> amiller: mw provides inflation guarantees, which utxo commitments do not (assuming CT, not bitcoin)
00:10 < maaku> also, transaction cut through
00:11 < instagibbs_> also theft is impossible unless you know the keys. You can only rewrite history, like Bitcoin.
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00:14 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> how do utxo commitments do too provide inflation guarantees
00:14 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> well, at least i don't understand how you mean to apply the caveat "(assuming CT, not bitcoin)"
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01:51 < andytoshi> amiller: utxo commitments don't give you any guarantee that a transaction included in the historical chain was not removed or reversed
01:51 < andytoshi> it's just SPV security
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02:19 < amiller> it's not "just SPV security", because SPV security doesn't prevent against inflation, where as checking a UTXO set does
02:21 < andytoshi> ok, sure, though you need the signatures on excess values to be totally aggregatable
02:21 < andytoshi> if you're using CT the way MW does
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06:42 < maaku> AH, ok. So the reason is that there are two sources of error (1) because of larger variance due to faster adjustments, the left-side of the chart increases error as you shorten the adjustment interval
06:43 < maaku> and (2) because slower adjustment means you spend longer mining at the wrong difficulty, the right-side of the graph trends upwards as well (unless you're simulating constant hashrate)
06:43 < maaku> These are separate sources of error, but one starts big and decreases, the onther starts small and increases.
06:44 < maaku> So there's a point in the middle where sum(error1 + error2) is minimized
06:44 < maaku> That happens to be when adjusting every 30-50 blocks, at least using bitcoin's simple adjustment algorithm.
06:45 < maaku> You could of course formalize a model of both sources of error, add them, and then minimize analytically using calculus.. I just haven't done that
06:46 < maaku> I'm an experimentalist, it was easier to just code a 10-line simulator and run it for a frew cpu-days :P
06:47 < maaku> ... and I failed at selecting the right IRC channel. Please ignore ^
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17:54 < musalbas> petertodd, had another read of https://web-payments.org/specs/source/pop2016/ - why do you think it's a dumb protocol? it seems fairly reasonable (even though there's no requirement to be able to "audit" the full set of items making it proof-of-existence)
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18:14 < musalbas> also https://www.w3.org/community/chainpoint/
18:14 < musalbas> 'The mission of this group is to establish a standard for creating a universally verifiable proof of any data, file, or series of events, by anchoring data to the blockchain and other sources. This allows anyone to prove the data existed at a point in time and has not been modified.
18:14 < musalbas> '
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20:30 < adlai> "modified data" is like "variable constant"
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