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08:05 < kanzure> in a proof-of-publication system where clients are responsible for remembering coin history proofs, it's not necessarily the case that a central issuer (for centrally issued assets) would have to make all (issued) inflation as publicly discernable events. in fact i thnk you could do private inflation.
08:05 < kanzure> (note i'm not talking about a side effect of the probabilistic payment/verification ideas)
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08:06 < kanzure> if that's not true, then i think you could at least get "inflation with plausible deniability" to be true, which is weird.
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08:08 < kanzure> ah no, that's a property of the coin rules that you and your recipients subscribe to. so you would probably collectively coordinate to not prefer rules that include those sorts of capabilities.
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09:06 < kanzure> "Comparing the pre-settlement risk implications of alternative clearing arrangements" http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/Documents/workingpapers/2007/WP321.pdf
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10:04 < petertodd> kanzure: yes, I think in pure proof-of-publication systems you want to think carefully about how coins are issued!
10:05 < kanzure> for some projects, invisible inflation is probably a feature...
10:05 < petertodd> kanzure: e.g. a proposal of mine from ages ago was to have issuance be done with a merkle sum tree, so there was a clear record of every issuance, even if the exact txouts in each issuance were private
10:05 < petertodd> well, that too..
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10:26 < musalbas> have a look at http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/G.Danezis/papers/ndss16currencies.pdf - it's a paper about centrally banked cryptocurrencies (with a central coin issuer)
10:27 < musalbas> while having strong auditability and transparency guarantees
10:28 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> the transparency is a result of trusting the central bank to publish everything
10:29 < musalbas> i assume there is a level of trust involved, but with auditability mechanisms to detect misbehaviour
10:30 < amiller> well, auditability mechanisms are usually incomplete
10:30 < amiller> as in, they detect some but not all kinds of misbehavior
10:31 < amiller> i think in the case of RSCoin, there is no particular way to detect if the central bank has omitted publishing something
10:31 < musalbas> sure. i haven't read the entire paper yet
10:33 < musalbas> one could propose an extension to RSCoin that pegs merkle roots of sets of transactions that banks have published to the Bitcoin blockchain, so that if banks ommit publication of items, it's detectable, while maintaining the scalability of RSCoin
10:33 < amiller> that wouldn't necessarily help either, the bank could omit something before committing to it
10:34 < amiller> viewing bitcoin as a proof-of-publication system, the point is that any user can publish a transaction directly
10:34 < musalbas> people accepting transactions issued via the bank can require a bank to commit to the transaction first and provide the merkle-proof of it on the blockchain before accepting it as a valid transaction
10:34 < amiller> whereas here if all you can do is submit your transactions to a mintette or the central bank, then those parties can omit it
10:34 < amiller> thats true
10:37 < musalbas> (it's actually what I'm working on now: improving trusted proof-of-publication systems like CT or centrally banked cryptocurrencies, by adding a layer of untrusted auditability/PoP via partial transparency, while maintaining scalability of CT-like systems)
10:38 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> i'm curious how the auditing would work anyway, i think it's possible with this scheme but not really explained in full detail in the RScoin paper
10:38 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> like, how do you check whether the bank is storing your transaction or not just because they commit to it
10:39 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> it seems like it would be up to individual parties to "check" frequently, which seems like a recipe for a lot of transactions to get missed before anyone notices
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10:41 < musalbas> which sounds like the "monitors" role in a CT-like system who have to figure if certificates are rogue
10:41 < musalbas> i'm not sure either but i assume i'll find out soon enough as the authors are my supervisors
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10:45 < uiuc-slack3> <amiller> cool! you are working at UCL?
10:45 < musalbas> yeah - in the information security research group
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10:51 < amiller> i think this paper is interesting and really closely related https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bf02/cc7d8d5bbbfa9df5e92b2127a9917c1470dd.pdf
10:51 < amiller> Enhanced certificate transparency and end-to-end encrypted mail
10:52 < amiller> the main idea that it has a blockhcain like authenticated data structure for certificates and revocation lists
10:52 < amiller> the main new idea is that the data structure is meant to be easy to audit for inconsistencies
10:53 < musalbas> that seems interesting
10:53 < amiller> they go into a lot of detail about how this auditing should work, Fig. 7 for example is all about the the tradeoff between how many "random consistency checks" are done per day, vs the probability of detection or time of detection (of some inconsistency or omitted record)
10:53 < amiller> i think there should be something analogous for RScoin
10:54 < amiller> also do you know what RScoin stands for
10:54 < amiller> i have been asking for years
10:54 < musalbas> no idea lol
10:54 < amiller> prof meiklejohn always declines to answer :p
10:56 < musalbas> i also tried to enhance key transparency for e2e encrypted communications by using a smart-contract based PKI (https://github.com/musalbas/trustery), but this paper is proposing something much more usable and without annoying web-of-trust crap
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11:04 < musalbas> i'll persuade the answer out of her one day :)
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18:04 < kanzure> https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust/blob/master/topics-and-advance-readings/PGP-Paradigm.pdf
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18:10 < kanzure> oh the darpa stuff was about galois and formal verification of bitcoin things?
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 14 00:00:11 2016