--- Log opened Thu Jan 19 00:00:09 2017 00:00 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01 -!- Fibonaccicoin [~JoBo@unaffiliated/goldenangle] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:04 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:10 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:21 -!- Fibonaccicoin [~JoBo@c-73-155-128-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:27 -!- Fibonaccicoin [~JoBo@c-73-155-128-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:49 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:54 -!- vidjogamer [~vidjogame@cpe-65-186-84-210.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote 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[~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:39 < stevenroose> what is the maximum size of a DER-encoded ECDSA signature over secp256k1? 02:39 < stevenroose> I know it is supposed to be dependent on the curve order somehow 02:47 < stevenroose> I guess you can just serialize a signature with S = R = n 02:47 < stevenroose> which is 72 bytes 02:48 < nsh> the signature is two 32 byte numbers 02:49 < nsh> in DER you add 6/7 bytes 02:49 < stevenroose> yeah I read that it can be up to 73 02:49 < nsh> satoshi missed a few branches when he fell down the omniscience tree 02:49 < stevenroose> No idea why it could be the extra one 02:50 < nsh> this is discussed on the web :) 02:51 < nsh> .title https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653313.0 02:51 < yoleaux> Question on DER-encoding of signature pair (r, s) 02:51 < gmaxwell> nsh: if the leading bit is set in the values the values must be zero padded. 02:51 < nsh> right 02:51 < gmaxwell> also what is said above is only true about the extra strict encoding required in bitcoin now. 02:52 < gmaxwell> if by der you mean something openssl's parser could accept, I believe there is no limit on how large it could be beyond address space. 02:53 < gmaxwell> as far as longer, bitcoin signatures have an extra flag seralized after the der encoded value. 02:55 < stevenroose> oh yeah the sighashflag 02:55 < stevenroose> but those are bitcoin-specific, so a general signature on secp256k1 can be forced to fit within 72 bytes, right? thanks 02:56 < nsh> and to confound matters, r & s can be shorter sometimes than 32 bytes 02:56 < nsh> 'There are signatures in blockchain where the length of R or S is 29, 30, 31' 02:56 < gmaxwell> nsh: there are ones much shorter than that. 02:56 < nsh> heh 02:57 < nsh> wouldn't that affect the security of the signature? 02:57 < nsh> suppose not in general 02:57 < gmaxwell> right, but sure some of the ways to get really short ones are stunts that don't have security. 02:58 * nsh nods 03:02 < gmaxwell> the simplest way to get a maximally short one is just set r=s=1 and then recover the pubkey that would result for a message of 1... then pay to that pubkey and then spend the pubkey with a sighash single bug spend. 03:04 < nsh> ah 03:04 < gmaxwell> I would be really surprised if there weren't one of these in mainnet. 03:26 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:47 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:23 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:34 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:46 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:c092:439b:71e3:67d1] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:49 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:58 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:04 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@2400:7800:48db:9100:b04b:3eea:760b:6efd] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:25 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:39 < sn0wmonster> is it possible to use secp256k1 to encrypt a message in a small enough length to fit in the block as a OP_RETURN, like how EternalWall does it for normal messages? 05:39 < sn0wmonster> eternitywall* 05:40 < sn0wmonster> what's the absolute minimum length you can make a "bitcoin wallet" encrypted message? 05:40 < sn0wmonster> when i use electrum ot try and sign/encrypt a message, it's just a few characters over the limit of what something like eternitywall allows 05:44 -!- Davasny [~quassel@78.10.231.191] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gofpgagpijsegnbr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 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seconds] 18:29 < kanzure> .title http://eprint.iacr.org/2017/019 18:29 < yoleaux> Cryptology ePrint Archive: Report 2017/019 18:29 < kanzure> "SMART POOL: Practical Decentralized Pooled Mining" http://eprint.iacr.org/2017/019 18:31 < kanzure> "Bitcoin Private Key Locked Transactions" http://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1184 18:34 < kanzure> petertodd: when are you going to formalize/publish your probabilistic institutionalized fraud stuff 18:41 < kanzure> "Catena: preventing lies with bitcoin" http://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1062 18:45 -!- fletom [~fletom@159.203.37.109] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:52 -!- atgreen [~green@CPE10da438ecb59-CM00fc8d24cab0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:55 -!- jtimon [~quassel@245.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:03 -!- ipwn [~ipwn@bl18-232-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03 -!- otoburb_ [~otoburb@unaffiliated/otoburb] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:04 -!- veleiro 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Fistful_of_Coins 19:55 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:74a2:ad1e:1b92:26a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:56 < adlai> this channel has the strangest mishmash of 'topic': bit sizes of satoshi cruft, mimble moon math, random paper drops... oops, i guess this belongs in #bitcoin.ninjas-meta 19:59 < sipa> haha 19:59 < adlai> "However, P2Pool is inefficient, increases the variance of miners' rewards, ..." < isn't this backwards? 19:59 < adlai> (from the SMART POOL PAPER) 20:00 < adiabat> perhaps relative to a normal trusted pool 20:00 < adiabat> not relative to solo mining... 20:00 * adlai reads on, for the sheer curiosity of why the smart pool adds an ethereum dependency to bitcoin 20:00 < kanzure> yeah i was wondering whether to mention the p2pool/variance stuff from http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-12-10.log 20:03 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04 < adlai> "The caveat here is that Bitcoin miners will pay in Ether gas to execute distributively" 20:05 -!- harrymm [~wayne@191.96.49.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06 < adlai> "Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum have the trusted setup where the first block in these networks are constructed and provided by Satoshi Nakamoto (for Bitcoin) and Ethereum Foundation (for Ethereum)." ... maybe i should stop reading and go to sleep. 20:06 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:10 -!- harrymm [~wayne@191.96.49.87] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:26 < adlai> in case ethereum forks^H^H^Hcompresses again, here are their pool scripts: http://dpaste.com/1NZJK8S http://dpaste.com/13Z9B93 20:29 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:74a2:ad1e:1b92:26a] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:34 < gmaxwell> adlai: uh. no, thats a paramter, not a trusted setup. 20:34 < gmaxwell> dishonest configuration of it can't do anything. 20:36 < sipa> gmaxwell: but satoshi could have the genesis block produce a billion BTC assigned to him, and we wouldn't know, right?? 20:36 < sipa> the genesis block is not verified! 20:38 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42 < midnightmagic> lol 20:42 < midnightmagic> A bookmark is trusted setup? 20:43 < gmaxwell> I dunno about ethereum but the bitcoin software regenerates the genesis block at start too. 20:46 < sipa> by that reasoning, every cryptographic algorithm has trusted setup, because you need to trust the authors of the paper that proposes it 20:50 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:03 -!- veleiro [~veleiro@fsf/member/veleiro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:17 -!- koshii [~w@c-50-151-108-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:19 < midnightmagic> sipa: My laptop has a trusted setup when I open it up every afternoon. 21:19 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:19 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:19 < midnightmagic> My rocking chair had a trusted setup when I sat down on it yesterday evening.. 21:20 < sipa> That's enough SNARKing 21:21 < gmaxwell> well, if thats the worst anyone could complain about the paper it would be a good thing. 22:07 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-249-218.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22 -!- florpadorp [~florp@c-76-121-138-167.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:22 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-249-218.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:24 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:29 -!- CrazyLoaf 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