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[uid136497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nxyhnxbhsnkfjauv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:56 -!- aguycalled [~aguycalle@2a02:2450:102d:b5:15a:cc1d:be14:c28c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:26 -!- quietbeast [~quietbeas@72-48-102-129.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:36 -!- aguycalled [~aguycalle@2a02:2450:102d:b5:15a:cc1d:be14:c28c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:39 < kanzure> petertodd: i think your 'validity challenges' would need to be on the p2p layer. IOW, sending incomplete blocks (or rather: refusing to furnish proofs, or fraudulently not having any proofs) should cause anti-dos ban stuff --- in particular, it should cause loss of reputation of the pubkey of the originating node. there's still a sybil problem (and a single IP address + node can spoof a bill... 11:39 -!- quietbeast [~quietbeas@72-48-102-129.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:39 < kanzure> ...ion pubkeys to a billion other nodes) but you could show a loss of reputation due to proof-request-dos or something. 11:40 < sipa> kanzure: light clients won't ask for incomplete blocks 11:41 < kanzure> sipa: in petertodd land (where things are a bit different) his question has been, how do you make a proof of fraudulent withholding of large amounts of data? and how do you broadcast that securely if your broadcast mechanism is otherwise preoccupied by transferring other data? 11:42 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:43 < kanzure> and then things like: if you pass around a validity challenge (asking for proof of validity, like the merkle path and contents), how do you guarantee that the actual operator had a chance to see the message and reply? otherwise you're just doing another kind of DOS. 11:43 < kanzure> DoS, rather 11:45 < kanzure> or the shorter version: if a miner gets to choose which data to reveal, then they aren't going to reveal their transaction where they caused inflation until it's far too late for anyone to want to rollback anything 11:48 -!- aguycalled [~aguycalle@2a02:2450:102d:b5:d5bb:e5c9:ee33:3339] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:50 -!- alpalp [~alpalp@unaffiliated/alpalp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51 < kanzure> what was the problem with submarine inflation in hidden regions of large blocks? why not a rule to invalidate the second spend of the coins whenever it's discovered in the future? 11:52 < kanzure> oh okay because you can partition the network/economy like that 11:52 < kanzure> so yeah, bad. 11:55 -!- alpalp [~alpalp@unaffiliated/alpalp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:00 -!- handlex [~handlex@2804:14c:658f:4dc7:1c46:602d:f24b:c01b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:07 -!- handlex [~handlex@2804:14c:658f:4dc7:1c46:602d:f24b:c01b] has quit [Quit: handlex] 12:16 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:29 -!- alpalp [~alpalp@unaffiliated/alpalp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41 -!- q4 [~q4@user-94-254-236-52.play-internet.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:46 -!- pedrovian [~pedrovian@8.27.210.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49 -!- pedrovian [~pedrovian@8.27.210.16] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:58 -!- Sick__ [~Sick@2001:4646:e0ef:0:59a7:30db:4668:c2af] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:01 -!- Sick_ [~Sick@2001:4646:e0ef:0:6ccb:387:a5b1:316] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@21.227.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...] 13:19 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc102320-sgyl38-2-0-cust380.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:19 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc102320-sgyl38-2-0-cust380.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29 -!- Sick_ [~Sick@2001:4646:e0ef:0:8012:b33d:bece:f1a0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:32 -!- Sick__ [~Sick@2001:4646:e0ef:0:59a7:30db:4668:c2af] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc102320-sgyl38-2-0-cust380.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:42 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc102320-sgyl38-2-0-cust380.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc102320-sgyl38-2-0-cust380.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:48 * nsh wonders idly if anyone has experience with Selberg sieves 13:48 < nsh> .wik Selberg sieve 13:48 < yoleaux> "In mathematics, in the field of number theory, the Selberg sieve is a technique for estimating the size of "sifted sets" of positive integers which satisfy a set of conditions which are expressed by congruences. It was developed by Atle Selberg in the 1940s." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selberg_sieve 13:48 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:49 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web419.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49 < nsh> vague sense that it might be useful for proving lower bounds on ECC securities 13:50 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web419.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:51 < nsh> cf. 13:51 < nsh> .tw https://twitter.com/bascule/status/824755377942077440 13:51 < yoleaux> Is this bad: "cohomology of non-compact unitary [...] can be leveraged to check [...] local-global compatibility at l=p for torsion classes" (@bascule) 13:51 < nsh> (beyond my ken to have any idea whether this affects ECC over finite fields) 13:53 < nsh> some german suggests it has no impact: https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=a674ee7e 13:54 < nsh> *german-speaker 13:58 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@193.138.219.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05 -!- droark [~droark@172.56.38.67] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:08 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@wsip-24-120-54-28.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:09 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@wsip-24-120-54-28.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:13 -!- itsme [~textual@94.242.205.34] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:15 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@58.137.128.131] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:22 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@2400:7800:48db:9100:15af:781c:f207:2812] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@i114-184-191-240.s41.a008.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:23 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@i114-184-191-240.s41.a008.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@2400:7800:48db:9100:bd29:7b6a:bd6d:7517] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:26 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Does anyone recall why this was later changed to a two week window? 15:27 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27 < stevenroose> I have the feeling that the two-week window makes hard forks a lot more dangerous than they would have been with a shorter window like 24h, or maybe 1h. 15:28 < gmaxwell> stevenroose: it was never short, I think you're misreading the text. 15:28 < gmaxwell> e.g. right now we have a moving average that targets 6 blocks an hour. 15:29 < stevenroose> Sec, I got the quote from here, will check the paper. https://gist.github.com/harding/dabea3d83c695e6b937bf090eddf2bb3 15:30 < stevenroose> Oh, I see what you mean 15:30 < stevenroose> It just describes difficulty adjustments based on an average generation time, without suggesting any specific window size. You're right. 15:31 < stevenroose> The guy in the gist interpreted it that way, though. 15:31 < gmaxwell> shorter retargeting intervals increase vulnerablity to isolation/partitioning attacks. 15:31 < gmaxwell> (and some altcoins have been attacked with these things) 15:32 < stevenroose> The change from looking for the longest chain to looking for the chain with the most work, makes that more hard, right? 15:32 < stevenroose> Aren't those kinds of attacks related to sybill attacks? 15:32 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33 < stevenroose> (I just interpreted the name, I never read about them..) 15:36 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:41 < gmaxwell> e.g. you can carve off part of the network with an eclipse attack, then mine its difficulty back to realtime, and the users and stuff won't notice they're partitioned. 15:44 -!- CubicEarth 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helpful to name that consensus layer as settling something other than transactions. 19:01 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 19:08 -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12 -!- NoBoD is now known as fibonaccicoin 19:12 -!- fibonaccicoin is now known as NoBoD 19:12 -!- Logicwax [~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:17 -!- CrazyLoaf [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nxxdgabmvvpyjlvu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:19 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@91.181.4.198] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:20 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.181.8.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:23 -!- kisspunch [~za3k@smtp.za3k.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:23 -!- kisspunch [~za3k@smtp.za3k.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:23 -!- droark [~droark@172.56.38.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:31 -!- NoBoD is now known as fibonaccicoin 19:31 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has 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