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11:48 < rodarmor> Please forgive the poor understanding of mimblewimble that I will no doubt reveal by asking this question! I understand that it is impossible to pick apart individual transactions after they are mashed together. But how does the situation change if an attacker runs a node that is always on and records all transactions as they are transmitted across the
11:48 < rodarmor> network, before they are combined? Can they then use the recorded individual transactions to trace the movement of coins through time?
11:49 < sipa> yes
11:49 < sipa> but the ability that transactions _can_ be mashed together meams you can also easily do so privately, before publishing them
11:50 < gmaxwell> rodarmor: assuming the transactions weren't aggregated before getting to that attacker.
11:50 < sipa> for example joinmarket like things become trivial in a MW world
11:51 < rodarmor> So let's say I'm running a non-attacking node and I get transactions A' and B' from nodes A and B respectively, can I then mash them together and transmit transaction AB to node C that I'm connected to?
11:53 < rodarmor> Like, let's say I just like making forensic attacks more difficult. Could I run a node which aggregated the transactions it received before forwarding them to other nodes?
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11:55 < sipa> rodarmor: that's unfortunately problematic
11:55 < sipa> as say you receive A and B, and forward as AB
11:56 < sipa> and someone else receives B and C, and forwards as BC
11:56 < sipa> AB and BC are not mergable, and in fact conflict (they double spend the inputs of B)
11:58 < rodarmor> sipa: Gotcha, that makes sense. So mimblewimble solves this by making the blocks the "cannonical merge" of a set of transactions, so that these conflicting merges cannot happen
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12:10 < rgrant> a small twist to per-transaction user signalling (coin voting): connect the feature to transaction verification, and thus miner fees, by examining the block headers BIP 9 flags, rather than recording a signal to be interpreted elsewhere.  call it OP_VERSIONBITVERIFY.  has this been discussed previously?
12:13 < sipa> rgrant: i don't think i've heard somwthing like that, elaborate?
12:14 < rgrant> I want my transaction to fail until the block that it is mined in has a certain BIP 9 flag set (or unset), totally unrelated to the flag's activation or revocation status, or even its reassignment.
12:14 < rgrant> This idea has almost all the bad taste of voting by stake (which voices medium-of-exchange use by business more than store-of-value use in cold storage), but offers the benefit of **having effect without any consensus on counting votes, or on what voting means**.  It is completely voluntary, and even pays miners more for transactions that use it.
12:14 < rgrant> The best reason that I can see to implement miner affinity as an opcode is that in the long run, I expect the ecosystem's now-revealed tension between stasis and scaling improvements will push evolution towards some implementation of miner affinity regardless, and the layers required to build it as non-consensus backchannels would be even messier.  I believe parts of our Bitcoin ecosystem will dema
12:14 < rgrant> nd the best of current BIPS and new ideas, and so pressures to give voice to currently-quiet users will increase over time.  I am looking for feedback on this conclusion.
12:15 < gmaxwell> rgrant: all that would do is make miners lie about their bits, utterly destroying the purpose of using them in the first place.
12:16 < gmaxwell> looking at versionbits usage as a vote is an error. BIP9 is quorum sensing that determines if the new rules can be imposed with very little risk of disruption. If you pay people for it, they'll lie even more than they already do, and it'll destroy its value..
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12:17 < gmaxwell> If you want to pay fees just to certian miners, you could give them your transactions directly.
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12:18 < rgrant> for some reason i was thinking that their later non-participation in an activated soft fork would still move the feature forward.
12:18 < rgrant> (safely)
12:18 < rgrant> i see, however, that if 51% lied, there would be risk.
12:19 < gmaxwell> no-- if that were the case the activation threshold would be 51% ... it's very unstable to activate new rules anywhere near a simply majority.
12:20 < gmaxwell> and also if one would lie why wouldn't almost all lie? to not lie would miss out on income...
12:20 < rgrant> i think i need a review on the risk of smaller percentages lying about their intent.
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12:21 < rgrant> does the risk extend beyond time of activation?
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12:25 < gmaxwell> rgrant: there are many users that foolishly accept transactions at 2 or even 1 confirmation. You can easily calculate the odds out of reorgs of given lengths given hashpower mining incomaptible blocks. (and be sure to consider that roughly half of hash power does spy mining and will extend invalid chains temporarily)
12:25 < gmaxwell> rgrant: yes.
12:26 < rgrant> i remember these risks described in the BitcoinXT activation plan.
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16:04 < SrPx> How can I generate an address with some string on it (say, FOOBAR) that will check as correct?
16:07 < mryandao> #bitcoin is a better suited for this type of questions, and you can search it up online, they are called "vanity addresses"
16:25 < SrPx> ok, thanks (they weren't very happy with this question there)
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