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06:31 < tromp_> :q
06:31 < tromp_> wrong window:(
06:32 < tromp_> (oops; just revealed my editor religion:)
06:35 < instagibbs> <insert Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 joke>
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10:38 < fluffypony> kanzure, Eliel: I missed the question on botnets, is it still open?
10:39 < Eliel> fluffypony: yes, it's the kind of always open question :)
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10:40 < kanzure> fluffypony: yes the question is whether we have data on botnets mining altcoins
10:41 < fluffypony> we don't have any hard data for Monero
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10:41 < Eliel> well, hard data is probably very hard to get. the botnets most likely won't want to advertise being botnets
10:41 < fluffypony> we're pretty sure there are multiple botnets mining it, besides the obvious like AdylKuzz and the QNAP malware
10:42 < kanzure> elaborate on the obvious ones?
10:42 < fluffypony> AdylKuzz predates WannaCry
10:42 < fluffypony> but uses the same infection vectors
10:43 < fluffypony> was only discovered after WannaCry
10:43 < fluffypony> it looks like the only thing it does is mine Monero
10:43 < Eliel> fluffypony: do you have an estimate for how much of the hashpower is from botnets?
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10:43 < fluffypony> yes
10:44 < fluffypony> http://minexmr.com/pools.html
10:44 < fluffypony> when they use known pools we contact them and they ban the mining address
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10:44 < fluffypony> so they setup private pools
10:44 < fluffypony> which means they're in the 18% "Unknown" section
10:44 < fluffypony> I'd imagine that the entire 18% is made up of botnets, or at least most of it
10:44 < kanzure> wouldn't it be better to know who they are..?
10:45 < fluffypony> a small portion will be solo miners
10:45 < fluffypony> kanzure: can't identify a private pool
10:45 < Eliel> ok, that's a percentage that's still tolerable in terms of security.
10:45 < kanzure> no i mean why are you asking them to ban the known addresses?
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10:45 < fluffypony> oh I see
10:45 < kanzure> wait what why would 18% be tolerable
10:45 < fluffypony> so QNAP asked us to get IPs first
10:45 < fluffypony> and it was using a known pool, so I pointed them to the pool
10:46 < kanzure> (i'm a little hesitant to be okay with "all unknown is botnet" btw)
10:46 < fluffypony> the pool harvested IP addresses for a while, but is returning null getwork (or our getwork equivalent)
10:46 < fluffypony> I don't know much beyond that because I'm out the loop and the QNAP engineers are dealing directly with the pool now
10:46 < Eliel> kanzure: if it was one centralized party, it wouldn't be tolerable. However, it's an open competition internally.
10:47 < fluffypony> yeah it's multiple botnets making up the 18%, and it's not like they can avoid following the rules
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10:47 < kanzure> fluffypony: context is hypothetical bitcoin pow change, concern is that botnets will immediately deploy the pow change and this makes the whole thing less decentralized.
10:48 < fluffypony> ah I see
10:48 < fluffypony> I don't think they could deploy changes that quickly
10:48 < fluffypony> a lot of these seem to be fire-and-forget with no C&C
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10:49 < fluffypony> so when the mining pool started blackholing them they didn't change pools
10:49 < kanzure> botnet operators have forgotten how to deploy software?
10:49 < fluffypony> they just kept beating the same pool
10:49 < fluffypony> and new IPs were doing the same thing
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11:44 < kanzure> fluffypony: thanks.
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11:49 < fluffypony> pleasure
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--- Log closed Wed May 31 00:00:09 2017