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05:40 < Eliel> might someone have a list of known smart contracts, that were borked by malleability. It's rather boring to only have payment channels (and LN by extension) to show as an example.
05:41 < waxwing> Eliel: i think the generalisation is wherever you need to prepare a signed refund before doing the funding. well, good Q though, what are other cases.
05:42 < waxwing> the recent paper about Loaded vs Roger hard fork bet had a really good illustration.
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05:46 < waxwing> on that same topic, andytoshi i think i forgot to tell you that you were right all along about that coinswap setup i was doing, even though i somehow managed to convince you otherwise :)
05:47 < Eliel> waxwing: do you have a link to the paper?
05:47 < waxwing> further on that topic, the long writeup i did here https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/coinswaps/ notes how an atomic swap that doesn't care about privacy doesn't need to worry about malleability, but one that does does
05:47 < waxwing> Eliel: i'll look it up, hang on
05:49 < waxwing> http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/patrick.mc-corry/atomically-trading-roger.pdf
06:01 < Eliel> thank you
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06:58 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/hardmaru/status/888565308029419520
06:58 < yoleaux> Decoding the Enigma with RNNs. They trained a LSTM with 3000 hidden units to decode ciphertext with 96%+ accuracy. https://greydanus.github.io/2017/01/07/enigma-rnn/ https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/DFTQe0XUQAAtu20.mp4 (@hardmaru)
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07:36 < andytoshi> waxwing: was i? you convinced me otherwise by using CLTV in place of traditional locktimes everywhere
07:38 < waxwing> andytoshi: yeah but i had a total derp-style fail there :) the CLTV stuff is great, so that say a standard atomic swap works, but when you're trying to "override" a hash locked + cltv output with a p2sh, used as backout, you need to sign the latter upfront, bring the malleability issue in.
07:39 < waxwing> that's what i meant about "care about privacy or not" above
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07:41 < waxwing> sorry the reference to 'p2sh' there is not relevant, ignore that. just override with some standard output.
07:42 < andytoshi> yeah, i got it, i'm thinking through this
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07:42 < waxwing> kanzure: that does look cool eh, i note they used gradient descent, wonder if they used simulated annealing.
07:43 < andytoshi> i thought the strategy was that the first transaction gets confirmed before anything else happens (and its outputs have a CLTV clause that make this safe), so it can't be malleated
07:43 < waxwing> yeah that was my thinking error - you need to prepare the signed backout in advance of doing that.
07:44 < waxwing> so if that pay-in gets malleated, the signed backout is useless
07:44 < waxwing> (since it refers to pay-in)
07:44 < waxwing> hmm no i'm thinking of simplex not gradient descent, whatever it does look fun :)
07:44 < andytoshi> why? the outputs of the pay-in have a CLTV clause that lets the original spender get it back, and they can sign long after the fact
07:45 < waxwing> ok, it sounds like you're thinking of a different design there, where the pay-ins have custom redeems.
07:46 < waxwing> i was trying to build a swap with pay-in and payout standard txs (p2sh actually)
07:46 < waxwing> see diag in middle of https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/coinswaps/ (although you saw it before)
07:46 < waxwing> like i say afaict if you don't care about anonymity set then you can sidestep malleability issues. well that's what it seems.
07:48 < waxwing> yeah you're talking about what i called 'atomic swap without privacy features' in the section above
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07:57 < andytoshi> ahh ok
07:57 < andytoshi> understood, i think you convinced me about the non-privacy one
07:57 < andytoshi> and i didn't realize you had a better design in mind
07:58 < waxwing> andytoshi: that's the most logical explanation :)
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08:10 < kanzure> win 2
08:10 < kanzure> jeiwqjfi0f9213r
08:10 < kanzure> ig-nore
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08:22 < kanzure> "A trustworthy proof checker" https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/papers/flit.pdf
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08:38 < kanzure> .wik curry-howard correspondence
08:38 < yoleaux> "In programming language theory and proof theory, the Curry–Howard correspondence (also known as the Curry–Howard isomorphism or equivalence, or the proofs-as-programs and propositions- or formulae-as-types interpretation) is the direct relationship between computer programs and mathematical proofs." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry-Howard_Correspondence
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08:44 < kanzure> "Proof checking and logic programming" http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~dale/papers/lopstr2015.pdf
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08:49 < kanzure> "Foundational proof checkers with small witnesses" https://faculty.ist.psu.edu/wu/papers/checker.pdf
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09:14 < Taek> I would be very interested in a list of cryptocurrency zero-days that led to thefts >$100k, if anyone knows of such a thing or something similar
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10:19 < EarlyGrey> hi kanzure, there was a rumor earlier about how if there is a hard fork that options wouldnt work.  can you add anything to put that rumor to bed?
10:19 < kanzure> wrong channel?
10:19 < EarlyGrey> you cant answer?
10:20 < kanzure> i think it's rude to flood -wizards with this. let's not.
10:20 < EarlyGrey> where may i ask?
10:20 < EarlyGrey> im banned everywhere
10:20 < kanzure> how about PM.
10:20 < EarlyGrey> why not on the public record?
10:21 < EarlyGrey> its not as if this channel is overflowing with messages
10:22 < EarlyGrey> so you wont answer the question publicly only in PM?
10:22 < EarlyGrey> ok
10:22 < kanzure>  -wizards is the wrong place, and you have lost the privilege to participate in other channels. so, send me a PM is about your only option if you're truly banned everywhere else.
10:23 < EarlyGrey> shall i relay it to my friends on #bitcoin and you can answer there?
10:24 < EarlyGrey> im not asking for that much, just an answer to question that involves you!
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10:25 < EarlyGrey> not answering just opens yourself to wild speculation that its true.
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12:48 < stevenroose> #censorship! rbtc Ver kingdom bitmain agenda troll troll
12:48  * nsh frowns
12:48 < nsh> not here, please :)
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13:19 < betawaffle> oh shit, what happened here
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13:23 < ItsFibonacci> Is there a moderator on I can speak with
13:24 < ItsFibonacci> I have an important suggestion for the community but I'd like to make the suggestion with the nick Fibonacci so you know it's me. No troll this is legit
13:26 -!- ItsFibonacci is now known as Fibonacci
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13:29 < betawaffle> Fibonacci: PM me?
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17:47 < itsfibonacci> As a result of your moderator community being exceptionally ignorant and the developers exceptionally greedy I have decided to pull Fibonacci support levels from btc. I will no longer support bitcoin core on any level. Enjoy. Cash Coin is the future anyway.
17:48 < Emcy_> glhf
17:49 < itsfibonacci> Bitcoin/cash is gonna wreck a lot of you power and money hungry fools.
17:49 < itsfibonacci> bye
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18:34 < nsh> (still off-topic)
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 26 00:00:31 2017